[Archived] Hillsborough

[Scotty]

Amazed there's not already a separate topic on this.

Today the families of the 96 received confirmation of what they already knew - that their loved one's and fellow fans were not the cause of the Hillsborough disaster. The disaster was caused by incompetant policing & stewarding, a decaying, unsafe ground, and an inadequate response from the emergency services. Finally now the whole country knows too, and we also know the extent of the shameful cover up that has taken place since that day.

I hope those who regularly post on here blaming Liverpool fans for the tragedy have the decency to apologise. More importantly, I hope the disgusting, lying illegitimates who engineered this cover up are brought to justice.

Today the truth, tomorrow justice for the 96.

[EwoodDawn]

A few of us expressed similar feelings to yours on the Premier League Happenings thread, Scotty. Unfortunately there were some different views expressed, too, so I'm glad you've put up a separate thread.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

One of the worst things is Liverpool had complained that there was crushing in the previous year's semi-final at that ground.....and there was at least one other game too which I think involved Spurs.

Like others have said, maybe on here if not elsewhere, it was a time when supporter's safety was not the main priority which is sickening anyway, especially more so considering some of the ages of fans who went to games.

I know Everton-Liverpool is a more friendly rivalry than many others I believe, but I'm glad there are numerous tributes paid by Evertonians.

I can remember being told by my Celtic relatives about the 2nd Ibrox disaster when 66 Rangers fans died during an Old Firm game and rivalry doesn't come in to it when something as tragic as that occurs.

Hopefully today's events can go some way towards helping families gain a bit of peace, it's just a shame it doesn't look like the police are going to be held accountable for their actions.

[CrazyIvan]

This is shocking, sobering, terrifying in equal measure. The link to the actual report... http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/report/HIP_report.pdf

[Ozz]

Bit OTT there ozzy

[From Premier League Thread]

Probably. Yesterday was emotional day for me. But consider the comparison, esp the Afghan one. Imagine sending your lads off to watch a football match, then as it starts, seeing a news flash on the telly, showing the events of a Hillsborough type situation where they had gone. Then later finding out that the deaths could have been avoided, and then that the people who should and could have helped them survive were actively prevented from doing, and later were coerced into lying about it and spreading false accustions over their victims behaviour. I think it would effect me just as badly as it would had I sent my kids of to war to see them killed by an IED.

And for the survivors, the feeling of guilt, the post traumatic stress, and all the other associated mental issues they are left to live with.

These people are dying, some are already dead. If they were my family, I am not sure I could cope.

[AggyBlue]

[From Premier League Thread]

Probably. Yesterday was emotional day for me.

The loss of someone close under any circumstances is very hard on the emotions, it must be especially so when due to a preventable tragedy but I don't think in anyway is Hillsborough comparable to Ypres

[Ozz]

Ypres was a poor example.

[Jock]

I hope the right people are prosecuted for this. Obviously the decision to open the gate was wrong but the lies and cover ups are surely criminal.

They'll probably pin it on Police Officers who have past away.

[M-K]

http://wosland.podgamer.com/no-justice-for-the-96/

The unending, maudlin obsession of the club's fans with Hillsborough for the last 23 years has its root not in anger, but in guilt.

The true crime of the police is that their despicable, scarcely-believable attempts to disguise their own calamitous failings have allowed attention to be diverted away from those who actually slaughtered the poor doomed souls at the front of the Leppings Lane central pen – the irresponsible, reckless cretins who pushed into a solid wall of bodies even as agonised screams cut the air in front of them.

...those who directly caused the deaths will never face a court or a jury of their peers, and indeed will be allowed to piously assert their moral outrage at those who were merely unable to rescue the innocent from their lethal stupidity.

[OJRovers]

Its good that there is finally proof that the police did try to cover up their obvious failings and should take their share of the blame along with the Council for giving the stadium a safety certificate.

However, the final element of responsibilty does lie with the fans who either didn't have tickets or rushed in straight down the central tunnel when it was obviously already too full. Yes the police should've closed the tunnel, but that doesn't mean that fans shouldn't have realised it was too full and used the side entrances.

We'll never find out who was pushing from the back or who got in without tickets, but they are out there and must have to live with the guilt.

[deefus]

I thought that with the report coming out now saying that the fans were completely not to blame people would no longer be holding the opinion that the tragedy was the fans fault. Obviously not.

Firstly, if you had ever been in the Leppings Lane end of Hillsorough around that time (I think we went there in 1991) you would know that as you enter the ground through the turnstyles (or gate in this case) all you really see is a tunnel in front of you. There were (I think) tow tunnels either side of this one with each one leading to one of the pens (apt description as we were treated like cattle back then). Now the problem was these tunnels were extremely dark and all you could see at the other end of the tunnel was the few fans directly in front of the tunnel and the goalposts (for the central tunnel). There was absolutely no way to see how full each pen was. In previous big games apparently they had police/students directing people away from the central pen when it was full, however not today. So to say they should have know the pen was full is completely wrong.

Secondly, there was such a mass influx of fans due to the fact that not only did South Yorkshire Police open the gate to let everyone in, but they also essentially pushed them all into the ground using police horses and dogs.

The sheer scale of this coverup just amazes me. To think that senior police officers and a politician would feed such lies to the press in order to save their jobs is asounding. To take blood alcohol levels from the dead (including a 10 year old boy) and to then do a search on whether each of them had a criminal record in order to smear their names and implicate them as the cause of the tragedy is frankly unbelievable.

[den]

However, the final element of responsibilty does lie with the fans who either didn't have tickets or rushed in straight down the central tunnel when it was obviously already too full. Yes the police should've closed the tunnel, but that doesn't mean that fans shouldn't have realised it was too full and used the side entrances.

The policeman who opened the gates "assumed that the pen wasn't full". The allegation that many fans attended without tickets was rejected by the inquiry OJ.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I personally believe NO one group was responsible for what happened that sad day..a terrible culmination of different factors.

I'm led to believe the reason the gates were opened was to relieve the awful crush OUTSIDE the Leppings Lane Entrance.

As for the Police 'doctoring' evidence....who can you trust now?

[Roversider]

I shed tears of sadness again yesterday for the families of the dead and injured at Hillsborough. I remember the day well, we had beaten City and I was walking away from Ewood and I experienced, as did all there, a deathly silence. We knew the Cup game had been abandoned but only as we left the game did the full impact hit us as the discussions and chatter ceased - all you could hear on that sad night as we trudged away was the sound of portable radios, turned on to catch the final scores but instead sounding out the most dreadful of stories. Otherwise, silence and we shuffled on in our lonely ways

Then came the vile stories in the news, I am convinced that it suited the authorities all the way up to the Prime Minister to portray the disaster as being the result of hooligan behaviour. We need to remember that this was post the Miners strike and the South Yorkshire police had been in the frontline of that. Margaret Thatcher and her colleagues were intent on changing the face of Britain and that included sorting out those horrid football supporters as well as the Unions. That set a scene which meant the despicable lies would have been easily justified - I would almost say, expected and demanded, to protect the image of the Authorities..

And as for that rag, The Sun and its loathsome Editor of the day, Kelvin McKenzie - for once I can't find words to describe the contempt I have for both. Sales of the Sun on Merseyside are miniscule nowadays and I would hope that as other Sun readers think about the behaviour of the paper and News International that this boycott spreads.

My wife has knowledge of the NHS in South Yorkshire and it was common belief that fans died due to inadequate treatment and not being put in the right recovery positions and asphyxiating.

Fences were the crudest and most moronic of responses to football violence, I could pick out the troublemakers in five minutes in a crowd and it was when the police started to use spotters and make targeted arrests that hooliganism began to decline in grounds. Cameras, seating and the return of families to the crowds did the rest. We were treated like animals as fans, penned in and a free target for any policeman to give a thump if you didn't get attacked by the opposition. Why should following your team be a death sentence? If anyone thinks Hillsborough was unique in terms of overcrowding well it had happened before there and we have experienced the same at places like Selhurst Park in the play-off semi-final.

I have utmost respect for the families who have fought against huge odds to get the truth, to Andy Burnham who helped that immensely with the creation of the Commission and all who have ensured that the evidence was brought out. Now justice must be done, only by punishing wrong-doing will we ensure that anyone thinking of repeating this disgusting act will know they will be found out.

God Bless all the victims and their loved ones, Rest In Peace.

[Roversider]

I personally believe NO one group was responsible for what happened that sad day..a terrible culmination of different factors.

I'm led to believe the reason the gates were opened was to relieve the awful crush OUTSIDE the Leppings Lane Entrance.

As for the Police 'doctoring' evidence....who can you trust now?

The causes were many, from Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield City Council, fences, crowd control rather than crowd safety, the FA, lots including bad operational decisions by the Police leadership.

BUT - the lies propogated by the Police Federation, senior police officers, a Tory MP and others are acts that didn't need to be done unless it was to hide guilt. There should be fresh inquests where the evidence will tell, I believe, a different story than that of accidental death. I also believe that there is clear evidence of criminal behaviour and that needs to be dealt with.

[bypass06]

Posted on Liverpool fans forum.

Not ashamed to say, it made me well up.

Justice Bell

A schoolboy holds a leather ball

in a photograph on a bedroom wall

the bed is made, the curtains drawn

as silence greets the break of dawn.

The dusk gives way to morning light

revealing shades of red and white

, which hang from posters locked in time

of the Liverpool team of 89.

Upon a pale white quilted sheet

a football kit is folded neat

with a yellow scarf, trimmed with red

and some football boots beside the bed.

In hope, the room awakes each day

to see the boy who used to play

but once again it wakes alone

for this young boy’s not coming home.

Outside, the springtime fills the air

the smell of life is everywhere

viola’s bloom and tulips grow

while daffodils dance heel to toe.

These should have been such special times

for a boy who’d now be in his prime

but spring forever turned to grey

in the Yorkshire S*n, one April day.

The clock was locked on 3.06

as S*n shone down upon the pitch

lighting up faces etched in pain

as death descended on Leppings Lane.

Between the bars an arm is raised

amidst a human tidal wave

a young hand yearning to be saved

grows weak inside this deathly cage.

A boy not barely in his teens

is lost amongst the dying screams

a body too frail to fight for breath

is drowned below a sea of death

His outstretched arm then disappears

to signal thirteen years of tears

as 96 souls of those who fell

await the toll of the justice bell.

Ever since that disastrous day

a vision often comes my way

I reach and grab his outstretched arm

then pull him up away from harm.

We both embrace with tear-filled eyes

I then awake to realise

it's the same old dream I have each week

as I quietly cry myself to sleep.

On April the 15th every year

when all is calm and skies are clear

beneath a glowing Yorkshire moon

a lone scots piper plays a tune.

The tune rings out the justice cause

then blows due west across the moors

it passes by the eternal flame

then engulfs a young boys picture frame.

His room is as it was that day

for thirteen years it’s stayed that way

untouched and frozen forever in time

since that tragic day in 89.

And as it plays its haunting sound

tears are heard from miles around

they’re tears from families of those who fell

awaiting the toll of the justice bell.

[1864roverite]

Its such a sad tragedy and not just for the families of those who perished. It left an emotional impact on every football supporter. You only have to walk to the memorial outside Anfield and that just identifies the footballing support as one big family.

No one deserved to die, the same can be said of those fans who died at Heysel.

Blame can be attributed to many, the police, the council, sheffield wednesday, the ambulance control, the match control, the government AND the fans who piled through that gap crushing those unfortunate souls at the front.

I truly hope that justice is served to those who are found guilty of criminal offences.

At the same time, the red half of Liverpool have been branded whingers. I just hope that now they have had their day, they now give thoughts to the incident at Heysel, where again, 30 odd fans lost their lives at a football match.

The campaign for justice should be a shining light for those who really believe that wrongs should be righted, the supporters and members of that group should be glad that they have stood up and been counted and that their requests for a review of the incident were granted. The families who lost loved ones may now think their lost souls can rest in peace and every credit for the dignity shown by them all.

this latest report may bring comfort to some, it may bring charges for others and may bring blame and shame for those who believed themselves to be untouchable.

Sadly, and more poignantly, it wont bring back any of the 96 who perished.

[den]

I can only repeat what Andy Burnham said today. Some people still need to read the findings of the inquiry.

[BigUts]

Im ashamed to admit I was a cynic of those who said Liverpool fans were completely innocent.

Living in Southport I've heard the JFT96 drum beaten almost all my life having only been born in the early 80's, and if im honest it was boring - how much shame I feel now.

Hearing the stories and seeing the pictures has cut me deep this week, especially now I have my own son. A big smear campaign disgustingly used to besmirch 96 innocent victims.

I hope the FA and in particular The chairman of the time also get prosecuted. The one body there for football and fans also didn't do their job properly.

I detest Liverpool FC, but we stand united as football fans, and hope this moment of some form of justice for football fans everywhere can be marked at games in some way.

I hope those that lost their lives know they changed safety at grounds forever in a perverse way, and truly hope they know that :

You will 'Never Walk Alone'.

RIP.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

This was from a Forrest forum - it's really long but well worth a read.

The time has come to put any petty squabbles aside.

On this day twenty years ago, I stood with some friends on the Spion Kop at Hillsborough.

From a cold, misty start in Nottingham, it turned quickly into a beautiful day. A gorgeous, sunny, warm, blue sky day. After last season's disappointment, I looked forward to a positive result today.

Pretty much first into the Spion Kop when they opened the gates at 12. Noticed that when the 5 of us arrived we outnumbered the stewards by 4.

Gets to 2 o'clock, and it's getting busy in our end. 100 yards away, it appeared that most Liverpool fans hadn't arrived yet, since there was plenty of concrete visible in the left and right sections of the "away" end.

"International Rescue" by Fuzzbox played on the Tannoy. It got busier and tighter in our end. Liverpool fans were still to arrive by the looks of things.

I remember our fans me and friends included chanting "What's it like to have no fans" and similar...it was clear that few of the dedicated Scousers had arrived, such was the empty space visible either side of the goal at the other end.

But there comes a point when having stood in, and looked at terraces for many years before this day, you realise that the middle section opposite you is rather densely packed.

Meanwhile where you are, you're having trouble getting the Polo mints out of your pocket, owing to the press of people round you. Stood in FRONT of a crush barrier (thank you, Dad, for teaching me THAT one early in my terrace life), you're uncomfortably squashed.

The players emerge, the teams are announced over the Tannoy, and you're ready. I can barely move, such is the weight of people round me. At the other end, it's apparent that a large number of Liverpool fans are going to miss at least the start of the game cos there's still acres of terrace concrete visible from our end.

The game kicks off. Early chances cause the usual swaying on the terraces. The crush barriers divide the flowing waves of humanity into horizontal blocks. 'Twas ever thus.

Forest force two corners in the opening couple of minutes and the expectation grows, only for a Liverpool break to dampen the spirit. A shot from Liverpool's Peter Beardsley goes narrowly over the crossbar, and the usual surge behind the Scouse goal.

Only this one doesn't end horizontally. For a moment the people stop flowing forward, then the horizontal line breaks forward in a curve.

Around this time, we can see Liverpool fans in the upper tier seats reaching down and pulling fans up from the terrace below presumably, we think, to afford them a better view.

"What a bunch of w*****s!!" cry 20,000 standing Forest fans.

A few Liverpool fans start climbing over the front fence of the terrace and jump on to the area behind the goal. "What a bunch on w*****s!!"

More fans lifted up, more fans over the fence.

A policeman runs onto the pitch and says a few words to the referee, who leads the players off the pitch.

******************************************

It is six minutes past three o'clock, on Saturday the 15th of April, 1989.

******************************************

In my pocket is a small transistor radio. I manage to get it out and turn it on to Peter Jones who's doing the commentary from this game on Radio 2 (is now Radio 5Live).

They are as bewildered as we are. Overcrowding. Fighting. Pitch Invasion. They don't know.

Ten or fifteen minutes later, with seemingly hundreds or possibly thousands of people straning to listen to my radio's little speaker, somes the awful report that..."we have unconfirmed rumours that three people have been seriously hurt in a crush behind the Liverpool goal".

The chanting from the Forest end dies down, an ambulance appears from our right, and as the number of Liverpool supporters on the pitch grows, a line of policemen is deployed to separate 'them' from 'us'.

We watch helplessly as injured people are brought towards our end of the pitch by fans and police, and laid down in the penalty area in front of us to recover. We can barely move in our end. My friend next to me was a qualified First Aider his parents both Doctors. Even if he'd been able to get to the front of our end, it was clear that no-one was being allowed out of our end for any reason.

On my radio, the awful news breaks that..."...perhaps one person may have been killed and several others injured in a crush...but these are unconfirmed reports".

We stand and watch as more and more injured fans are laid out to recover in the penalty area before us.

******************************************

To my dying day I will remember a Liverpool fan in a white shirt being carried by 6 people, on a ripped-down yellow advertising hoarding. His black jacket was draped over him. As the carriers crossed the half-way line, the jacket slipped off and fell to the floor.

His bearers stopped, and carefully placed the "stretcher" on the ground. They picked up the coat, and with great dignity placed it carefully over the poor bugger's head.

He was then carefully and respectfully picked up and carried to the area in front of us, and carefully placed on the ground, his coat moved to cover his head.

I think it was at that point that the full enormity of the situation dawned on all of us.

That guy was dead.

Dead.

And he had been placed with the 40-50-60-or-so of the other "injured", "recovering" people.

They were dead too.

All of them.

Dead.

And there we were chanting abuse over their heads for the last half hour.

Dead.

All of them.

Meanwhile the radio kept on with the doom-laden reports of "perhaps three people have been killed...." For once in my life, I knew better than the radio.

Come 4.15 or so, finally, FINALLY the PA cracks into life. "This is Kenny Dalglish."

Fifty-five thousand people in the stadium. Apart from some distant cries from the other end, you could have heard a pin drop.

"This is Kenny Dalglish. Clearly a major disaster is happening here.... " The rest of the speech is immaterial. It was met with warm applause from all remaining fans. He asked us to be patient for a while as the emergency services dealt with the injured, and that shortly the exit gates would be opened, and would we all please make our way calmly out of the ground and go home.

The radio is still telling me that perhaps 3 people have been killed, but this isn't confirmed.

Half-past four, the exit gates are opened, and 20,000 shocked, stunned, quiet Forest fans make their sad, disbelieveing way to their cars, buses, vans.

On the radio, I think Peter Jones had realised what had happened. Barely able to restrain his own tears, he told a stunned nation that..."a young lad, about 9 years old has just come up to our commentary position, and asked if he can use our phone to call his mum, because he has lost his Dad.

Of course he can phone."

******************************************

"BBC Radio Sheffield, the news at Five O'Clock.

South Yorkshire Ambulance Service has confirmed that seventy-two football fans have been killed at this afternoon's..................................."

We were at the traffic lights, in front of probably ten thousand Forest fans, all going home. I think most of us had that radio station on.

I got out of the car, and tried desperately to breathe in fresh air.

As I looked down the road, I wasn't the only person throwing up.

Not quite sure how we got home that night, but I remain grateful to my friend Sunil for getting us home.

A bit of tea, and news and Match Of The Day on TV. No music, no fanfare. Just a dark screen, and a few still images:

Fans sitting, shell-shocked.

Ambulances.

People hugging.

People crying.

Metal fencing.

Ninety-five fans died that afternoon.

Fans like me.

In the ground early, in order to get a good place to stand.

Killed by the unrelenting weight of humanity crushing the life and breath out of them.

The ninety-sixth victim, Tony Bland, died about three years later when his life support machine was turned off.

[Stuart]

I hope the FA and in particular Gordon Taylor also get prosecuted. The one body there for football and fans also didn't do their job properly.

Excuse my ignorance but what are you suggesting Gordon Taylor did?

[Mr C]

Wow.

Powerful stuff, Salgado.

Brings it all back as if it was last week.

Rovers fans had similar feelings as a Garner hat-trick versus Man City paled into total insignificance as we heard the shocking news on our way home after a joyous afternoon at Ewood.

[BigUts]

Excuse my ignorance but what are you suggesting Gordon Taylor did?

My bad, I've got my wires crossed somewhere, I meant the FA chairman of the time but can't find his name now!

[Threepenny Bit Foot]

Terrible terrible event. Your young son goes to watch a game of football and never comes home - it beggars belief even now. RIP the 96

[Jock]

My bad, I've got my wires crossed somewhere, I meant the FA chairman of the time but can't find his name now!

I think it was Bert Millichip. With Ted Crocker as Chief Exec(both dead)

Graham Kelly came in as Chief Exc in 1989 but not sure if he had anything to do with Hillsborough.