[Archived] Mixed feelings about a positive start to the season

[bradeagle]

Gotta love this message board.... all summer since we May all we heard was how strong the championship was, how it was the toughest league in Europe and how we would be heading straight down to league 1..... now it’s the worst Championship for years because despite a crap manager we are unbeaten & top??? Ha ha ha pathetic....

FACT we have adapted FAR quicker to this league than most expected....ENJOY it, hope it lasts...IF it does... Get promotion and let Kean go at the end of his contract....The playing squad seem united together, and also with Kean...so for now, whilst the team is winning/ unbeaten – DONT rock the boat, as the players seem to be onside... Nobody is saying to forget the past & accept Kean, hell no.... simply that we should enjoy it whilst the team is on a good run.

Get promoted 100% let kean go at the end of his contract? are we in charge then at the end of the season?

[roversR4ever]

Posts above are spot on. But for some serious luck we would be 16th or 17th at the moment. I know the retort back from the optimists will be "should have, could have, would have doesn't mean anything, we have the points and that's what matters, we're top of the league" blah blah blah. But it's only been 5 games and over the course of the season playing at the level we've currently been playing at I cannot see us seriously challenging for promotion. Just because we've started off well in terms of results does not mean a fan has to put the blinkers on and become completely unaware of the glaring weaknesses in our team and in our style of play. Ignorance is bliss, but for most of us it isn't an option.

Im not getting carried away but there is a huge difference between this year and last. The standard of teams in this league means we wont get punished for mistakes anything like as much as last year, where as I do think we have a better quality of player upfront and are likely to punish teams more, even to be honest if we dont play that well. I do think that Rhodes Gomes CKR and when fit Best (with Rochina in back up) make a massive difference and also our central mid was a decent prem midfield when at fulham. Its possibly enough to compensate for the v v poor manager we have this year, of course god help us next year if we manage to get up to the prem.

[ABBEY]

Nobody ? Has blinkers on parson ? Hughsey and spark do.

[booth]

Nobody has blinkers on but the last two matches have been excellent entertainment and the Rovers have picked up two decent results. As a supporter I can enjoy that for what it is. I have no problem with those who want to boycott. I accept that it is a difficult decision to make and was one that I seriously thought about at the end of last season. Ultimately, I decided I couldn't turn my back on the club after 50 + years, and I have to admit that the last two games have provided excellent entertainment. A lifetime of watching the Rovers means I fully expect us to get beat with Barnsley and Middlesbrough - it's always the way with the Rovers. However, whilst I can respect the views of those who want to stay away, I would hope that those who are so doing could respect the views of those who have opted to continue going and who have enjoyed seeing some favourable early season results.

There are some fans that have blinkers on Parson. You only need to read some of the daft statements from some folk on here (and other Rovers sites/news report pages). Posting "Kean In" is never going to produce a favorable response and that was one particular gem on these pages. The man is poison and I still have no faith he will continue the good form. It'll be his lack of ability or complacency and I fully believe he'll screw it up in some way.

I can't turn my back on the club too. But I don't think even the stay away fans have turned their back on the club, they'd be back in a shot if things were to change. As it is, returning to Ewood after a few decent results (which weren't necessarily decent performances, let's be honest) would be fickle and at least those fans are being true to their beliefs.

[Paul]

, I would hope that those who are so doing could respect the views of those who have opted to continue going and who have enjoyed seeing some favourable early season results.

I agree with all you say PB but doubt your hope will be fulfilled. One only has to look at how every thread is diverted to Kean hating etc. etc.

Personally I'm just enjoying the moment because that is just about all one can do. I have no problem with the boycott but believe it has zero impact and frustrates the boycotters more than the club.

[den]

Personally I'm just enjoying the moment because that is just about all one can do. I have no problem with the boycott but believe it has zero impact and frustrates the boycotters more than the club.

This is all very similar to the aftermath of the 1960 cup final Paul. Fans then left because they believed people within the club basically didn't give a toss about them. Would you call those people boycotters - and did it frustrate them? I think not.

The tendancy on here is to think that it's just a couple of hundred fans on a messageboard who are "objecting" - when in fact thousands of fans who have never been on a messageboard have walked away. Many of those wont come back. That's not frustration, it's the fans saying we're simply not going along with the way you're running the club, or the way you're treating me.

If we want some realism in this debate we have to get away from the viewpoint that it's all about relegation, results and Steve Kean. It isn't.

[roversR4ever]

Nobody ? Has blinkers on parson ? Hughsey and spark do.

Abbey to be honest i feel pretty much like you. I am glad rovers are winning and top because i really dont want to see the club fail but i cannot and will not listen to or look at Kean. He cannot be a role model for my son, it appears he lied in court and find him a dispicable man. But what worries me is is this becoming more common in football. I find myself worrying more and more if football is losing its moral code.

My son although shows an interest in Rovers simply hasnt got the same desire I have had. He takes part in a sport where although he arrived late is making good and fast progress. Sportsmanship is demanded of them though. In the middle of a race the person he was up against fell hitting a gate. My son stopped racing to get over to him to make sure he was ok. He had to put in loads of effort afterwards to get back to his previous gate to complete the race and not lose points for the club. The crowd/parents though cheered my son and the lad who fell. Later my son himself had a bad crash but got up and completed the course simply to not lose the club points. The coaches were pleased with his attitude and he got praise and recognition at the next training session. the parents also we pleased and praised him. My son grandad was watching he kept commenting on the sportsmanship - he doesnt see it at my cousins football.

Recently my son went to watch his cousin at a football training session at its academy. Hes a good footballer. Before the session some of the kids were messing around with a ball but tussled for it near a fence. Nothing nasty but one of the kids who was about to do the training and who is a decent player pushed another kid into the fence with two hands the kid fell back and hit the back of his head on the fence.The kid responsible simply walked away showing no concern what so ever even said to one of the kids he hadnt pushed him. No one ran over to check if the kid was ok. the kid who was hurt swore, couple of parents then did show an interest because the kid had sworn. This really annoyed me and I pointed out the other kids behaviour but the parents all shrugged. Probably because the kid is a good player and happens to be the son of one of the coaches. The kid hurt was there also to watch so not in the team but his behaviour before and after was very good. My son was really outraged (he is quite young still at primary school) afterwards said he wasnt going to watch again if thats how team players behaved.

The thing is how people like numb nuts behave is really important. He is the manager he sets the tone and what he expects from the team. He sets the moral code and must have a certain standard of behaviour.

[Tom]

I can fully see the mixed feelings and want Kean gone ASAP but people can't help how they feel and personally I have enjoyed this season so far more than most of the last few years in the premier league (since sparkys days)

The point ultimatum is pretty good as anything less than an amazing start sees Kean out however if we do win the next two then five wins and two draws out of seven games is more than anyone could have hoped for when you consider a lot of people predicted us to go down.

Ideal scenario is we win tonight and draw friday, stay top and Kean still gets the boot.

[Tom10K]

I agree with all you say PB but doubt your hope will be fulfilled. One only has to look at how every thread is diverted to Kean hating etc. etc.

Personally I'm just enjoying the moment because that is just about all one can do. I have no problem with the boycott but believe it has zero impact and frustrates the boycotters more than the club.

Its easy to enjoy the moments in a football ground surrounded by other fans but surely there is a difference between message board opinions and raw emotion of a match. On a thread labelled "Mixed feelings to a positive start to the season" I wasn't expecting blind support but the complete opposite. I agree with you about the boycott, as personally I couldn't live without watching Rovers but if they are committed to it and can keep it up what an effort it has been. The extreme views on both sides of the argument are always going to be shot down with anger. I'd love to see more reasoned and interesting talk about the matches but the background to them causes the divisions. The posts at 4:45pm after the win are probably more positive than those after a period of reflection.

I've really enjoyed the last two matches, who wouldn't but I really miss the people I used to go to matches with. Its not quite the same at the moment but maybe that will change. The only way I know for certain fans would come back is with a bold statement, an admission that the fans are valued that statement can only be a change of manager (or owners but that is just fantasy).

[roversfan99]

I can fully see the mixed feelings and want Kean gone ASAP but people can't help how they feel and personally I have enjoyed this season so far more than most of the last few years in the premier league (since sparkys days)

The point ultimatum is pretty good as anything less than an amazing start sees Kean out however if we do win the next two then five wins and two draws out of seven games is more than anyone could have hoped for when you consider a lot of people predicted us to go down.

Ideal scenario is we win tonight and draw friday, stay top and Kean still gets the boot.

Do you still honestly believe these points targets?

[bradeagle]

Do you still honestly believe these points targets?

No i think anything said pre season has been unofficially quashed!

[Tom]

Do you still honestly believe these points targets?

I was meant to say if true

I heard it early on from someone within the club then from different sources so I believed it had been touted but never fully sure if it would materialise

[PAFELL]

This is all very similar to the aftermath of the 1960 cup final Paul. Fans then left because they believed people within the club basically didn't give a toss about them. Would you call those people boycotters - and did it frustrate them? I think not.

The tendancy on here is to think that it's just a couple of hundred fans on a messageboard who are "objecting" - when in fact thousands of fans who have never been on a messageboard have walked away. Many of those wont come back. That's not frustration, it's the fans saying we're simply not going along with the way you're running the club, or the way you're treating me.

If we want some realism in this debate we have to get away from the viewpoint that it's all about relegation, results and Steve Kean. It isn't.

Your right it is not just those on messageboards who are boycotting. But I do think they would be the first to return in results on the pitch are good. It is really on messageboards such as this where we debate things in depth, hear rumours etc.

The reality is that a lot of folk will just look at results. I do believe it is possible to love your team, but hate the owners and manager. The sad reality is the owners are here for quite awhile. But Kean would go before the owners do. I also wonder if the increase in fans going to away matches is playing into Keans hand. He can turn around and say "look at that people are willing to pay good money to see my team play".

[roversfan99]

I was meant to say if true

I heard it early on from someone within the club then from different sources so I believed it had been touted but never fully sure if it would materialise

We've heard it so many times, being "on the brink," points targets and clean slates in the past and even when we have gone on to lose again Kean has remained. I see no reason why they will sack him this time, especially being top at the moment. And no I don't think Shebby has the authority to do so.

[Parsonblue]

This is all very similar to the aftermath of the 1960 cup final Paul. Fans then left because they believed people within the club basically didn't give a toss about them. Would you call those people boycotters - and did it frustrate them? I think not.

The tendancy on here is to think that it's just a couple of hundred fans on a messageboard who are "objecting" - when in fact thousands of fans who have never been on a messageboard have walked away. Many of those wont come back. That's not frustration, it's the fans saying we're simply not going along with the way you're running the club, or the way you're treating me.

If we want some realism in this debate we have to get away from the viewpoint that it's all about relegation, results and Steve Kean. It isn't.

I totally agree with you on this den. It is more than just relegation, results and Kean that is keeping fans away from the club. I know fans who have said they will return if Kean goes but I know others who have said they won't return until Venky's have gone. As you say, many who felt let down by the club in 1960 never returned and I suspect that a number of long time supporters will not return to the club even if Kean was sacked tomorrow. Whoever replaces Kean will have to operate under the same conditions and this, I suspect, will limit the choice with regard to replacements. If Kean manages to get us up - a huge IF I know - then I have no doubt that the owners will reward him with a new contract. As we all know attending football is something of a habit and once it is broken for any length of time people find other things to do. The only way to get fans back quickly would be to sack Kean and find new owners but, sadly, that is not going to happen. Whilst sacking Kean might get some back would fans be happy if the club appointed someone like Gary Megson if he came in and ran things exactly like Kean? We might change the ringmaster but it will still be a circus. At the moment I've simply divorced the owners and manager from the enjoyment I get from watching a game of football involving Blackburn Rovers. I know many can't do that but ultimately, like you, I really don't know what the long term solution is to our problems short of new ownership.

[Tom]

I also think the way you feel often ties in to if you are going or not, I remember the Newcastle cup game last season I really didnt care if we lost but if I'm at the ground it's a totally different matter.

Before I renewed my season ticket I wasn't too concerned but as soon as I renewed I was hooked again

[rossyrover]

Proper supporters follow the club no matter who owns it or who the manager is I have followed the rovers for over 50 years and will follow them till the day I die fans can have their moan about the state of things but to boycott the home games is pointless it happened with the F.A. Cup tickets in 1960 but a new set of fans appeared with Premier promotion and the same will happen again by the way I am no supporter of either Keane or the Venkys but I have renewed my seasons tickets all 5 of them because this is my club the club I loved all my life and no one is going to drive me away.

[den]

Regarding your last sentence Parson, well strangely I still think the Raos could turn the club around, they simply need to put the right people in the right places. Why haven't they done that? Well, I think that just isn't the reason why they came into the club. They came in believing that they could improve the clubs fortunes, while at the same time using the club to provide a platform for their intention to expand their business - and giving control to real football people would kill that dream. Just running an English football team for the sole benefit of that team certainly wont appeal to Mrs D. The thing I still hope for is that they might, just might, in the absence of credible buyers, be forced into taking a step backwards and handing the running of the club over to experienced professionals. It's a matter of how far we fall before they realise there is no other option.

[roversR4ever]

I totally agree with you on this den. It is more than just relegation, results and Kean that is keeping fans away from the club. I know fans who have said they will return if Kean goes but I know others who have said they won't return until Venky's have gone. As you say, many who felt let down by the club in 1960 never returned and I suspect that a number of long time supporters will not return to the club even if Kean was sacked tomorrow. Whoever replaces Kean will have to operate under the same conditions and this, I suspect, will limit the choice with regard to replacements. If Kean manages to get us up - a huge IF I know - then I have no doubt that the owners will reward him with a new contract. As we all know attending football is something of a habit and once it is broken for any length of time people find other things to do. The only way to get fans back quickly would be to sack Kean and find new owners but, sadly, that is not going to happen. Whilst sacking Kean might get some back would fans be happy if the club appointed someone like Gary Megson if he came in and ran things exactly like Kean? We might change the ringmaster but it will still be a circus. At the moment I've simply divorced the owners and manager from the enjoyment I get from watching a game of football involving Blackburn Rovers. I know many can't do that but ultimately, like you, I really don't know what the long term solution is to our problems short of new ownership.

The trouble is its not easy to bring a young son when someone like Kean is in charge. Simply in my opinion if he behaved with honour, respect and honesty then even if he was a poor manager I would take my son. But in my opinion he doesnt have those traits and there is no way Im going too take my son and let him see someone like that in charge. It sets the wrong example.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Regarding your last sentence Parson, well strangely I still think the Raos could turn the club around, they simply need to put the right people in the right places. Why haven't they done that? Well, I think that just isn't the reason why they came into the club. They came in believing that they could improve the clubs fortunes, while at the same time using the club to provide a platform for their intention to expand their business - and giving control to real football people would kill that dream. Just running an English football team for the sole benefit of that team certainly wont appeal to Mrs D. The thing I still hope for is that they might, just might, in the absence of credible buyers, be forced into taking a step backwards and handing the running of the club over to experienced professionals. It's a matter of how far we fall before they realise there is no other option.

Of course they can turn it around but if they really want to they are going to have to budge on an issue that they seem to be immovable on and that's the manager. We can't move on until Kean has gone.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just running an English football team for the sole benefit of that team certainly wont appeal to Mrs D.

I think this is the nub of the issue, and I can't see it appealing to anyone else either, especially of we get back into the Prem. Anyone who buys us at that level from here on in will be doing it for themselves one way or the other.

Ironically, I think there are far more genuine, in for the love of it owners in the Championship than in the Prem but we have far less chance of being sold on at this level.

[Paul]

This is all very similar to the aftermath of the 1960 cup final Paul. Fans then left because they believed people within the club basically didn't give a toss about them. Would you call those people boycotters - and did it frustrate them? I think not.

The tendancy on here is to think that it's just a couple of hundred fans on a messageboard who are "objecting" - when in fact thousands of fans who have never been on a messageboard have walked away. Many of those wont come back. That's not frustration, it's the fans saying we're simply not going along with the way you're running the club, or the way you're treating me.

If we want some realism in this debate we have to get away from the viewpoint that it's all about relegation, results and Steve Kean. It isn't.

I agree with you den it is much deeper and it involves thousands. One of the bigger worries is I don't believe people will return. There's a lot of talk about sack Kean and thousands will return but myself I think getting 3-4000 ST holders to return would be a major success. .

Anyway I shall enjoy tonight and Friday.

[braddock]

I have no mixed feelings. I'm happy to be at the top of the table and hope it continues.

[Steve Moss]

Abbey to be honest i feel pretty much like you. I am glad rovers are winning and top because i really dont want to see the club fail but i cannot and will not listen to or look at Kean. He cannot be a role model for my son, it appears he lied in court and find him a dispicable man. But what worries me is is this becoming more common in football. I find myself worrying more and more if football is losing its moral code.

My son although shows an interest in Rovers simply hasnt got the same desire I have had. He takes part in a sport where although he arrived late is making good and fast progress. Sportsmanship is demanded of them though. In the middle of a race the person he was up against fell hitting a gate. My son stopped racing to get over to him to make sure he was ok. He had to put in loads of effort afterwards to get back to his previous gate to complete the race and not lose points for the club. The crowd/parents though cheered my son and the lad who fell. Later my son himself had a bad crash but got up and completed the course simply to not lose the club points. The coaches were pleased with his attitude and he got praise and recognition at the next training session. the parents also we pleased and praised him. My son grandad was watching he kept commenting on the sportsmanship - he doesnt see it at my cousins football.

Recently my son went to watch his cousin at a football training session at its academy. Hes a good footballer. Before the session some of the kids were messing around with a ball but tussled for it near a fence. Nothing nasty but one of the kids who was about to do the training and who is a decent player pushed another kid into the fence with two hands the kid fell back and hit the back of his head on the fence.The kid responsible simply walked away showing no concern what so ever even said to one of the kids he hadnt pushed him. No one ran over to check if the kid was ok. the kid who was hurt swore, couple of parents then did show an interest because the kid had sworn. This really annoyed me and I pointed out the other kids behaviour but the parents all shrugged. Probably because the kid is a good player and happens to be the son of one of the coaches. The kid hurt was there also to watch so not in the team but his behaviour before and after was very good. My son was really outraged (he is quite young still at primary school) afterwards said he wasnt going to watch again if thats how team players behaved.

Kudos to your son. It seems like he's turning into a proper sportsman.

I run our local youth soccer league (1,021 kids and growing) in a small Arizona desert town. We run the league through an organization known as AYSO (American Youth Soccer Organization) as they have six philosophies which are supposed to govern all our decisions:

Open Registration (any child can register)

Everyone Plays (every registered player must play at least half the game)

Balanced Teams (teams are reassigned every year to ensure that everyone has both good and developing players)

Positive Coaching (coaches have to keep their comments clean and supportive)

Good Sportsmanship (how players interact with each other is often more important than how they play the game)

Player Development (each player should improve at least a bit each year).

We went with AYSO as very few kids will play professional soccer (though players like Landon Donovan got their start in AYSO). Instead, if they (and we) are lucky, they will be honest, hardworking, taxpaying citizens. AYSO's soccer mindset seemed to encourage positive social behaviors, which increases the possibility of a productive adult life, rather than the anti-social win at all costs attitude of some youth sports.

And the fact that they develop a love and understanding of soccer is a huge bonus.

So kudos to your son, his team and coach, and their parents. I think they have the right attitude.

[braddock]

If you raise your children properly then they won't bother with role models. The concept of having a role model is preposterous. They may wish to play football like a certain player, but that does not make them a role model. Be honest with your children, explain right and wrong and teach them how to think effectively and independantly and you won't need to bother about such things.

Putting people on platforms is not the answer. Honesty is.

As for dealing with other peoples children in a footballing sense, establish an ethos, explain how they will succeed, and if they don't want to play ball then suggest they find another club. It's not like at that age they are going to be acting like Wayne Rooney in a care home.