[Archived] Charlton v Rovers

[RevidgeBlue]

Are you sure ? We've got the best squad in the league I'm told.

I think Glen also said after one of the other games we won by playing badly "Stevie Wonder could get this squad up"

Which I tend to agree with.

[Kelbo]

Do you not find it strange that teams first started to do that soon after we got a new manager?

+ 1,000,000

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Do you not find it strange that teams first started to do that soon after we got a new manager?

I'm not sure that's strictly correct, teams running through us especially in centre midfield happened when Sam was here at times. Also when we had the Jones boys and or Nzonzi in centre midfield towards the end of the season before last we seemed to have tightened up considerably.Unfortunately the failure to resign Jones meant we didn't have a natural leader in centre midfield.

[RevidgeBlue]

If I'd have been Shebby I'd have cut my tongue out first. Don't know about the rest of what he said but he was dead right about The Pensioner. Then the tosser has the nerve to mime a walking stick when he scored a goal. He needs a giant kick up the arse more than most.

Exactly. If Pedersen had put half as much thought and effort into his performances over the last four seasons as he obviously did into planning that goal celebration, we and Shebby wouldn't be talking about him in that manner.

[AggyBlue]

He wasn't great yesterday but as I and others have said, Lowe and Murphy were our biggest problems yesterday. Both truly awful.

I'd wager neither gave the ball away more than Pedersen

[RevidgeBlue]

Are you saying the players are being told to allow our opponents to waltz through our team at will ?

It did seem to be the tactic under Kean that when the opposition get the ball, instead of pressing, we retreat to the edge of our own penalty area and attempt to sort it out from there.

I really did think that this would change with the arrival of the much vaunted Clement from Chelsea but it didn't seem to make the slightest difference whether the assistant was Jensen, Clement or Black.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It did seem to be the tactic under Kean that when the opposition get the ball, instead of pressing, we retreat to the edge of our own penalty area and attempt to sort it out from there.

I really did think that this would change with the arrival of the much vaunted Clement from Chelsea but it didn't seem to make the slightest difference whether the assistant was Jensen, Clement or Black.

Spain, Barcelona and off yesterday's showing Liverpool think the opposite way, they try and win as much possession as possible in their opponents half. Makes sense to me.

[watford-rover]

did anyone see just before they took their penalty that givet and i think either orr or dann were having quite a heated argument in the semi circle, givet stopped walking away, turned and stormed back towards them at one point with fingers pointing. seems there are problems in the squad, or with givet's temper.

totally agree about the comments about lowe and peds. didnt contribute a thing, the only thing peds did was give away the pen and lose possession. lowe cant head a ball and kept pulling out of them. neither of the full backs overlapped to give some width which i found surprising for olsson, also with orr aswell as he can put in a decent cross so why if he is going to play lowe out wide then why dont he get orr on the overlap to add a bit of width.

i personally would have subbed murphy for dunny. made things tick alot more when he came on, and would like to see him pull some strings behind gomes.

for the forrest game i would like to see a midfield of

Vuckevic (if he has any confidence left), Etuhu, Dunny, Nunes

and where the hell was robbo going for the flap that led to thier goal?

but the positives.. nuno is class, rhodes did well with what he had. dann looked pretty solid, and etuhu did well

[Waggy76]

I'm with you Tyrone, I've always said this squad isn't the best in the league, in fact it's very, very short of what's needed. The problem has been two-fold. Poor squad coupled with poor management. We're currently addressing one of these weaknesses, but we'll still be left with the other one. Our problems are far from over.

Very true , next season with a good manager we will have a more realistic chance ..

Too many poor and bad players on the books at the moment , we are in a false position .

[Parsonblue]

I'd wager neither gave the ball away more than Pedersen

Both Lowe and Murphy gave the ball away far more than Pedersen. The other plus for Morten is that he appears to be the only player who can actually head the ball when it's launched forward. He was by no means the worst player on the field yesterday that's for sure.

[RevidgeBlue]

Spain, Barcelona and off yesterday's showing Liverpool think the opposite way, they try and win as much possession as possible in their opponents half. Makes sense to me.

Yep.

I don't buy into the modern theory that possession is the be all and end all of everything because there's possession and there's possession.

Knocking the ball about in your own half all day might give you a 70% possession ratio but ultimately means diddly squat. On the other hand possession that leads to a good chance being created is very different.

A guy who coached at amateur level recently said to me "Football is an incredibly simple game. Its all about denying the opposition as much space as possible and trying to make as much space as possible for yourself." There's a lot of truth in that as well if you watch a team like United.

[Sverre]

I had forgotten about clement. Lol.

Black said in an interview with rovers.co.uk post-match that they basically did what they had been setting up all week. With Kean or no kean, they would have played the same against charlton. That might explain pedersen and lowe at the wings.

Anyway, I think the way forward is to use henley at lb and put Olsson further up on the field. We need pace at the wingers, and Lowe and Pedersen are not the answer to that! Nunes, Kazim, Vukcevic and Olsson on the wings are probably the best options.

How about lowe in the central midfield in an effort to close down the opposition? He's far from our best player, but he's got an engine.

Alternatively, we could try out Vukcevic in the middle of the field as well, instead of Murphy who doesn't look interested. Vukcevic is one of our most technically gifted players.

Oh how I miss a player like Jermaine Jones and Robbie Savage.

[philipl]

Disappointed Black went with the Kean line-up.

Pretty obvious he doesn't want the Rovers job in my opinion.

One sign that there is match fixing is the players who are not involved getting very angry with the players who are involved or so I have been told by experts on the subject....

[Hullrover]

Nuno would be my ace card here, forget running at the defence all the time, he can deliver a ball with bend and pace, give him the ball with the instructions to play it diagonally into the box, Gomez and Rhodes will get onto those.......

Nuno would do well to get on the end of his own pass!!

[RevidgeBlue]

Disappointed Black went with the Kean line-up.

Pretty obvious he doesn't want the Rovers job in my opinion.

One sign that there is match fixing is the players who are not involved getting very angry with the players who are involved or so I have been told by experts on the subject....

Give over.

I will however agree with you about Black.

Imo if he had anything about him he would have introduced a little tactical switch or wrinkle of his own yesterday that the players would have felt comfortable with and which would have sparked a significant improvement.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Yep.

I don't buy into the modern theory that possession is the be all and end all of everything because there's possession and there's possession.

Knocking the ball about in your own half all day might give you a 70% possession ratio but ultimately means diddly squat. On the other hand possession that leads to a good chance being created is very different.

A guy who coached at amateur level recently said to me "Football is an incredibly simple game. Its all about denying the opposition as much space as possible and trying to make as much space as possible for yourself." There's a lot of truth in that as well if you watch a team like United.

We were told when I played- " When you've got the ball make the pitch as big as possible, when the opposition has the ball make the pitch as small as possible ". Still works today.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Disappointed Black went with the Kean line-up.

Pretty obvious he doesn't want the Rovers job in my opinion.

One sign that there is match fixing is the players who are not involved getting very angry with the players who are involved or so I have been told by experts on the subject....

If he had mixed it up at the last minute - then Black wouldn't have wanted the job. Lets give him at least until Wednesday to see what he can bring to the table. Personally - depending on who comes in and when - keeping some of the back room staff on may help maintain some continuity while also enabling the new man to understand where it has all gone so wrong (fitness training etc etc).

Both Lowe and Murphy gave the ball away far more than Pedersen. The other plus for Morten is that he appears to be the only player who can actually head the ball when it's launched forward. He was by no means the worst player on the field yesterday that's for sure.

Parson - what would you think of replacing Murphy with Peds ? IMO he would offer far more in the centre than Murphy is at the moment.

Alternatively - Henley to left back - Olsson to advanced left winger. Lowe to play alongside Etuhu as the defensive two in midfield - with Murphy in front of them. And to compete the midfield - Simon or Nunez on the right - again advanced. Basically a 4-3-3 when attacking and 4-5-1 when defending ? Alternatively - just drop Murphy and play Gomes in the advanced midfield role.

[Tom]

Didn't see the game but Lowe is terrible on the wing

I Really hope whoever comes in gives Simon a shot there

[92er]

did anyone see just before they took their penalty that givet and i think either orr or dann were having quite a heated argument in the semi circle, givet stopped walking away, turned and stormed back towards them at one point with fingers pointing. seems there are problems in the squad, or with givet's temper.

.

Someone else at the game referred to a heated argument between Givet and Dann.

Radio Lancs said Dann gave the penalty away.

[watford-rover]

I was at the game so I haven't seen it again, but I saw the ref say to peds it was him, peds gave it the old "who me?" Look and body language

[92er]

I was at the game so I haven't seen it again, but I saw the ref say to peds it was him, peds gave it the old "who me?" Look and body language

The commentator firstly thought it was Pedersen, then thought it was Dann.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I've seen the highlights but it's still hard to make out....Pedersen is in between Dann and their player but stands still whilst Dann jumps to try and win the header.....so either Pedersen is adjudged to have pushed their player in the back or Dann's jump is what gave it away....I'm 50/50.

Ok just watched it again....it's Pedersen who gives it away....he clearly pushes him in the back.

http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,,16428_8125360,00.html

There's the highlights...unsure if it works outside of the UK.

I'm not sure that's strictly correct, teams running through us especially in centre midfield happened when Sam was here at times. Also when we had the Jones boys and or Nzonzi in centre midfield towards the end of the season before last we seemed to have tightened up considerably.Unfortunately the failure to resign Jones meant we didn't have a natural leader in centre midfield.

Maybe when Keith Andrews was in the team..........and yea I was gutted when we missed out on Jones, I really rated him.

Maybe it occurred to an extent under Sam but nothing like under Kean......in too many games, teams looked dangerous every time they went forwards.

[joey_big_nose]

Team I would like to see..

---------------Robinson

------Orr---Dann-----Givet----Olsson

Vukcevic----Ettuhu---Dunn---Nunes

-----------Rhodes----Gomes

Dunn looked good yesterday, give him a crack in the center. Hopefully pace from Nunes and the delivery of Vukcevic will make a difference. Have to say the squad looks bloated and we have a lot if players knocking about who are going to struggle to get a game..

[Parsonblue]

Parson - what would you think of replacing Murphy with Peds ? IMO he would offer far more in the centre than Murphy is at the moment.

Alternatively - Henley to left back - Olsson to advanced left winger. Lowe to play alongside Etuhu as the defensive two in midfield - with Murphy in front of them. And to compete the midfield - Simon or Nunez on the right - again advanced. Basically a 4-3-3 when attacking and 4-5-1 when defending ? Alternatively - just drop Murphy and play Gomes in the advanced midfield role.

Personally, I think it would be worth trying either Dunn or Pedersen in the centre. Murphy needs taking out of the firing line at the moment. I would like to see Henley given a game and would certainly give Simon Vukcevic a few games on the right side of midfield. The return to fitness of Kazim-Richards and Marcus Olsson will give us more pace but I certainly think the likes of Henley and Vukcevic should at least be included in the squad. At the moment I find some of the selections baffling.

[thenodrog]

Is it as good as Ince's at Macclesfield and M.K. Dons?

It is now we are in the lower leagues Simon. If we were a Prem team with Prem players I think Hill would struggle managing some of the big time Charlies. This lot we have are either yes men and players who no one else wants who barring a miracle of biblical proportios will never get promoted imo. Rem Kean has got rid of anyone who challenged his methods / tactice / motivation and general inept management.