[Archived] Jimmy Saville

[True Blue & White]

People should mistake the BBC now for what it was back then, they're different. Remember now <> then, now <> then, now <> then

....Taxi!!!!

[Gav]

I just find the whole saga astonishing.

It was clear that Saville wasn't wired up right, but I always though he was good man, a rather eccentric character who devoted his life to charity.

I find equally astonishing that so many people have been sitting on this nightmare for all these years, why didn't 1 person break ranks and out the guy? we're led to believe he abused 300+ people and nobody was willing to speak out? or he managed to cover up the allegations? who helped him?

We now find ourselves reading day in day out a trail by media, against a guy who can't defend himself which isn't good at all.

[Rovermatt]

There are a number of men somewhere in the country having increasingly restless nights as this investigation gathers pace. Good, Kean 'em.

Did anyone see the BBC documentary the other night? The footage of his first (crap) TV show on the Beeb is unbelievably sinister in the light of the recent revelations.

[Mike E]

Allegedly a high-profile celeb is due to be arrested, suspected of joining savile. A paper featured on ThisMorning its gunna be a 'shock' to the UK. Hmmmm.

[colin]

Yes, I've thought for some time that this organisation is a law unto itself.

I'm hoping with any luck, that when the truth emerges, it will initiate the breaking up of the BBC

Aah yes, a sort of interesting point there Bryan. Lots of people and commentators seem to be having a pop at the BBC because it was Saville's employer. I supppse the

question must be asked "Is an employer responsible for the behavour of an employee? Was Saville an employee or was he a self-employed person.

Either way I would just like to put forward the question that if Ian Brady's employers or inded Harold Shipmans employers did't face such approbation, why is the BBC facing such flack?

[jim mk2]

Yes, I've thought for some time that this organisation is a law unto itself.

I'm hoping with any luck, that when the truth emerges, it will initiate the breaking up of the BBC

Public service broadcaster respected and admired around the world - great idea.

Good luck with Fox TV.

[broadsword]

Don't watch "Fox TV", in fact, I don't watch BBC much either. They've lost contact with the spirit of Reith and instead pump a load of old crap out.

They take so much money in licence fees and have too many overpaid staff. Why can't they exist as a commercial organisation? They flog their merchandise worldwide already, they carry advertisements on their website. It seems like they want to have their cake and eat it.

How on earth was Jimmy Savile allowed to get away with it for so long, it seems like it was an open secret. There must be a possibility of a paedophile ring operating there, at the very least, there's a distinct lack of accountability. And to suppress the Newsnight piece and run a Christmas special instead is sick. So what I'm suggesting doesn't really have a parallel with Harold Shipman in any way whatsoever.

The BBC exists in some twilight world between the civil service and commercial organisations, I can't remember the name of the body that is meant to hold it accountable, but we're talking about a systematic failure here. They have a duty of care to any child on their premises and they've failed big time. Sorry if that doesn't quite groove with your sensibilities and you'd rather let them get away with it because BBC World Service is quite popular in Guadaloupe.

[ABBEY]

Someone else been at ? Unnamed

[broadsword]

So far we've had John Peel, Jonathon King, Jimmy Savile, Gary Glitter has been accused of criminal activity on-site, so has Freddie Starr, I think it's 9 BBC employees that are going to be interviewed by the Police.

But obviously everything is hunky-dory at the BBC, no cause for alarm, as you were lads.

[Amo]

Good to see the corruption of dear "Auntie Beeb" is finally being exposed.

[jim mk2]

The BBC exists in some twilight world between the civil service and commercial organisations, I can't remember the name of the body that is meant to hold it accountable, but we're talking about a systematic failure here. They have a duty of care to any child on their premises and they've failed big time. Sorry if that doesn't quite groove with your sensibilities and you'd rather let them get away with it because BBC World Service is quite popular in Guadaloupe.

Public service broadcasting. Admired and respected throughout the world. Not difficult to understand.

[broadsword]

And does the BBC have quite the same level fo respect just now, Jim?

Not sure why I should care about what people abroad think of the BBC, they don't pay for it. I do.

[Stuart]

Without getting into any allegations of serious abuse, which if proven to be true are reprehensible, if Saville had pinched someone's bottom, would that be classed as the more lurid sounding "groping" or "abuse" or even a "sexual offence" / "crime". Would it have been described as such in the 60s/70s? Offensive, yes, demeaning, certainly but abuse?

It just seems there is a lot of money to be had now that he's been found guiltyin his post-humous trial by media and many people who may have been in his company over the years are crying foul when they could and yet didn't do so whilst he was alive. This is the biggest problem a lot have with this case.

On the flip side there have been precious few people quoted as defending him but then a "Saville didn't grope me" headline wouldn't suit any newspaper agenda would it?

There may be some people who genuinely have a case but those who spy a quick buck would not help their cause.

http://swns.com/news/teen-put-on-sex-offenders-register-for-pinching-police-officers-bottom-9746/

[Rovermatt]

So far we've had John Peel...

Really?

[broadsword]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216453/John-Peel-got-pregnant-I-15-Woman-claims-month-affair-DJ.html

[adopted scouser]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216453/John-Peel-got-pregnant-I-15-Woman-claims-month-affair-DJ.html

Not Peely, the fall ? My life's fooked

[thenodrog]

Not really in the same league. I know when the pic was taken she was 17 but she must have got away with being 16 when she was 15. Also going backstage at a Black sabbath concert to try and find Ozzie Osbourne gives a rather different slant to the term 'innoence' than sitting on somones knee in hospital in ladybird pyjama's.

I must admit thinking that Bill Wyman / Mandy Smith carry on was nauseating yet his Rythm Kings are still very popular. I guess we must be careful of double standards.

[Stuart]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216453/John-Peel-got-pregnant-I-15-Woman-claims-month-affair-DJ.html

Reading that, and in the context of all of the mock outrage in 2012, judging the 60s/70s by today's standards, you have to wonder when the age if consent will be raised to 18 (or more).

So many vulnerable, insecure, 60s-teenie-bopper groupies throwing themselves at these "abusers" now feel guilty, and seemingly want, at the very least, a few grand for a newspaper article

This kind of story overshadows the allegations of serious abuse which need to be investigated, proven and punished.

[Stuart]

Glitter arrested now. These are the facts that really need to come out and be punished, not tittle tattle over groupies.

[thenodrog]

Gary Glitter... Like Saville another talentless individual whose fame I never understood. Seems to me that shiny gold tracksuits, imbecilic behaviour and massive ego's must be the secret ingredient for success in the world of pop music.

[broadsword]

Reading that, and in the context of all of the mock outrage in 2012, judging the 60s/70s by today's standards, you have to wonder when the age if consent will be raised to 18 (or more).

So many vulnerable, insecure, 60s-teenie-bopper groupies throwing themselves at these "abusers" now feel guilty, and seemingly want, at the very least, a few grand for a newspaper article

This kind of story overshadows the allegations of serious abuse which need to be investigated, proven and punished.

No, it doesn't overshadow anything, Stuart. why on earth would you say that, the Jimmy Savile story is top UK news on the BBC website, it's not been relegated by this story about John Peel, which hardly anyone knew about.

In the same way that we can look back and say that squeezing female bums on tube escalators and wolf-whistling pretty girls was wrong, so having sex with an underage groupie was wrong, even if she was looking for it. Or do we turn a blind eye to it because it was only a bit of fun?

[thenodrog]

In the same way that we can look back and say that squeezing female bums on tube escalators and wolf-whistling pretty girls was wrong, so having sex with an underage groupie was wrong, even if she was looking for it. Or do we turn a blind eye to it because it was only a bit of fun?

No ID required or carried back then. Truth is that there will always be predatory individuals (or gangs in the case of recent prosecutions of muslim males) so it's not a bad idea to place some burden of responsibility on parents and the teenagers themselves.

[broadsword]

I agree. Some, but not all.

If I had a 15 year old daughter and she'd got pregnant by a 30 year, I'd be out for blood.

[Stuart]

In the same way that we can look back and say that squeezing female bums on tube escalators and wolf-whistling pretty girls was wrong, so having sex with an underage groupie was wrong, even if she was looking for it. Or do we turn a blind eye to it because it was only a bit of fun?

It's not about "turning a blind eye", it's about recognising a different culture back then. For instance, a pinch on the the bottom would have been met with a slap in the face if the woman took offence and that would have been the end if it. Now the culprit could be ordered to sign a sex-offenders register along with proper scumbags.

People are looking at this, armed with today's values, as some old codger molesting young children. This isn't yet proven. Yet in reality he was much younger and the groupie-types will likely have been very aware of what they were doing. There will be a lot of rock stars sweating right now that some women from their hedonistic past is going to turn her guilt into a court case.

I am more concerned that he may have been abusing innocent minors (such as hospital patients) than what happened with career groupies in dressing rooms. If this is proven then he deserves the vilification.

This is in danger of going off at a tangent but my original point was that Peel's case shouldn't be classed in the same category as the more serious accusations against Saville et al.

The overriding problem in all this though is that someone has been accused, charged and convicted of crimes - through the media. If it now comes down to a case of his word against theirs then he is not here to defend himself. If 99% of the accusations being thrown in are from ex-groupies then it may paint a different picture which backs up a potentially small group of accusers who may or may not be telling the truth about more serious abuse.

Sorry if I'm making myself unpopular but the whole thing just doesn't sit right after 30 or 40 years and a year after the accused has died.

[thenodrog]

I am more concerned that he may have been abusing innocent minors (such as hospital patients) than what happened with career groupies in dressing rooms. If this is proven then he deserves the vilification.

Correct.