[Archived] BRFCAG and Shebby Singh (with Kamy as an added bonus)

[CrazyIvan]

I posted this earlier in a now closed thread but thought, since there is a lot of talk about it, it might be worth having it's own thread...

While I appreciate what the Action Group has done (not that I agree with all of it) having direct and frank contact with Shebby and then passing this information on to the fans is a recipe for disaster. A more circumspect approach (from Shebby) is definitely needed; Kamy is exactly right. That view might not go down well with the AG but there has been too much disharmony with the fans and factions within the fan base, intended or not, are going to lead it to be splintered and argumentative on a much greater level which is not what this club needs. By all means have contact with Shebby but there has to be limits to the discussion. At some point, these individual factions are going to want to influence the running of the club, unconsciously or not, and that is where the biggest danger lies. The AG might say that this will never happen but at some point it will because that is human nature.

People disagree about virtually all aspects of a football club, from team selection to shirt design. That's perfectly normal. What is dangerous is when groups of fans get direct access to what should be privileged information and access to a key decision maker within the club who is willing and happy to talk about detailed plans within the club. The words 'undue influence' will ring out at some point even if the AG does not try to do this and makes a point of it. This is entirely why the fans forum is there and why that medium is the correct one for the fans to bring up issues and questions.

Footballing decisions and plans made for the benefit of the club should be done by those people in positions of responsibility and authority within the club. I can guarantee there are a lot of fans out there who think the current leadership is not capable or good enough. Well, guess what? Tough. We can't choose who runs the club, we could protest against them but that's not going to achieve anything. At this point, we (as fans) have to trust that they will make the correct decision. Their track record is not good. However, we have no choice.

I can very much understand why John Williams took footballing decisions and the reasons off the agenda. It makes perfect sense. The same must happen now.

[Blue n White Rover]

The Action Group needs to take a look at the Official Fans Forum and take a leaf out of their book. They are the ones in my view that bring up the "real" issues. This Action Group it seems in my opinion, want "breaking news".

[K-Hod]

I just think there are too many groups, such quarrels are inevtiable.

[braddock]

I think some people have too much time on their hands.

And that's coming from me.

[CrazyIvan]

I think some people have too much time on their hands.

And that's coming from me.

If that's aimed at me, you're dead right. I've been in hospital for the last 9 days.

[yoda]

If that's aimed at me, you're dead right. I've been in hospital for the last 9 days.

I thought braddock was talking to himself!

[braddock]

If that's aimed at me, you're dead right. I've been in hospital for the last 9 days.

Suely not all the action groups have that excuse. I was referring to all involved at the higher levels.

I thought braddock was talking to himself!

You are allowed to put me on ignore instead of replying to everything I say.

I don't mind either way, just thinking of you.

[Andy]

Yeah, although I'm sure it's not the case, the prominent AG members seem to revel in the 'celebrity' and extra tidbits of information it gives them.

Wasn't the AG set up to rid our club of Kean and/or the Venky's?

Well, Kean has thankfully now gone now and Venky's (with SS) has clearly managed to wangle the AG guys into being onside...so, with respect, what is the purpose now of the AG?

The main point for me is: the AG claim that they will never offer personal opinion, only the feeling of the fans as a whole.

However, each fan will have a different opinion on every issue at the club.

Bizarrely, there were actually a handful of fans who supported Kean!!

So unless you speak to every Rovers fan and garner their opinions, you will only ever be giving the club a biased opinion.

[yoda]

Suely not all the action groups have that excuse. I was referring to all involved at the higher levels.

You are allowed to put me on ignore instead of replying to everything I say.

I don't mind either way, just thinking of you.

I didn't reply to you, get over yourself

[Blue blood]

I posted this earlier in a now closed thread but thought, since there is a lot of talk about it, it might be worth having it's own thread...

While I appreciate what the Action Group has done (not that I agree with all of it) having direct and frank contact with Shebby and then passing this information on to the fans is a recipe for disaster. A more circumspect approach (from Shebby) is definitely needed; Kamy is exactly right. That view might not go down well with the AG but there has been too much disharmony with the fans and factions within the fan base, intended or not, are going to lead it to be splintered and argumentative on a much greater level which is not what this club needs. By all means have contact with Shebby but there has to be limits to the discussion. At some point, these individual factions are going to want to influence the running of the club, unconsciously or not, and that is where the biggest danger lies. The AG might say that this will never happen but at some point it will because that is human nature.

People disagree about virtually all aspects of a football club, from team selection to shirt design. That's perfectly normal. What is dangerous is when groups of fans get direct access to what should be privileged information and access to a key decision maker within the club who is willing and happy to talk about detailed plans within the club. The words 'undue influence' will ring out at some point even if the AG does not try to do this and makes a point of it. This is entirely why the fans forum is there and why that medium is the correct one for the fans to bring up issues and questions.

Footballing decisions and plans made for the benefit of the club should be done by those people in positions of responsibility and authority within the club. I can guarantee there are a lot of fans out there who think the current leadership is not capable or good enough. Well, guess what? Tough. We can't choose who runs the club, we could protest against them but that's not going to achieve anything. At this point, we (as fans) have to trust that they will make the correct decision. Their track record is not good. However, we have no choice.

I can very much understand why John Williams took footballing decisions and the reasons off the agenda. It makes perfect sense. The same must happen now.

Good post. No problem in good communication and dialogue but would hope Shebby would manage to keep it professional.

Also how many fans wanted Friedel, Allardyce, how many liked Ince? Communication and openess with fans is vital but sound professional judgements are vital to the running of this club.

[GoneSouth]

I posted this earlier in a now closed thread but thought, since there is a lot of talk about it, it might be worth having it's own thread...

While I appreciate what the Action Group has done (not that I agree with all of it) having direct and frank contact with Shebby and then passing this information on to the fans is a recipe for disaster. A more circumspect approach (from Shebby) is definitely needed; Kamy is exactly right. That view might not go down well with the AG but there has been too much disharmony with the fans and factions within the fan base, intended or not, are going to lead it to be splintered and argumentative on a much greater level which is not what this club needs. By all means have contact with Shebby but there has to be limits to the discussion. At some point, these individual factions are going to want to influence the running of the club, unconsciously or not, and that is where the biggest danger lies. The AG might say that this will never happen but at some point it will because that is human nature.

People disagree about virtually all aspects of a football club, from team selection to shirt design. That's perfectly normal. What is dangerous is when groups of fans get direct access to what should be privileged information and access to a key decision maker within the club who is willing and happy to talk about detailed plans within the club. The words 'undue influence' will ring out at some point even if the AG does not try to do this and makes a point of it. This is entirely why the fans forum is there and why that medium is the correct one for the fans to bring up issues and questions.

Footballing decisions and plans made for the benefit of the club should be done by those people in positions of responsibility and authority within the club. I can guarantee there are a lot of fans out there who think the current leadership is not capable or good enough. Well, guess what? Tough. We can't choose who runs the club, we could protest against them but that's not going to achieve anything. At this point, we (as fans) have to trust that they will make the correct decision. Their track record is not good. However, we have no choice.

I can very much understand why John Williams took footballing decisions and the reasons off the agenda. It makes perfect sense. The same must happen now.

Excellent post.

I appreciate the work of the AG in keeping up the pressure and helping get rid of Kean, but the impression I get is that self-importance has become a problem this season, particularly with the meetings with Shebby. Too much dangling of "ITK", "you wouldn't believe what we know if we could tell you" tit bits, and a sense that Shebby has sweet talked them into being on side (as others have pointed out, what happened to them opposing the whole regime?). It's particularly worrying that Shebby has made them the group he communicates with as representatives of the fans, when the only people they represent is themselves.

In my view it's time for them to take a step back. And at the very least stop posting ITK rumour and self-aggrandising updates on message boards.

[greco]

if a group of supporters get involved in club runnings, its a slippery slope and can only go one way.

imagine this scenario, a fan group gets the chance to have their say in club matters, when things start to go wrong, should they not be held accountable.? This would leave that group vulnerable to attacks from other groups, who never had a chance to voice theri opinions. We would end up with fan fractions fighting each other and that would creat a more awful atmosphere then kean could ever create.

I dont mind that glenn mullan has his opinions, he has as much right to say who he wants as a manager and he has the right to do so wherever he sees fit, but if he is in anyway acting in a role as advisor and it doesnt matter how small it is, then thats a huge mistake.

I must admit, that i had some thougts about and wasnt quite sure about my feelings on the subjetct, but thats because we have the worst owners ever. To put it into perspective, i would actually feel the club was in safer hands with braddock running it, then these 3 bufffons, so listening to glenn wouldnt be that bad. The only thing that swayed me the other way, was the possible friction between the fan groups, which would be a catastrophe.

[braddock]

Vote Braddock!

[Bluemonday BRFC]

It makes you wonder...

Why does Shebby seem to leak things to these groups, why not use an official source?

Remember the rumours 'Vineeth Rao' (or whatever he was called) was facebook messaging random fans asking for transfer advice...

How much influence do these groups potentially have in the Club's decision-making process?

[Ste B]

It makes you wonder...

Why does Shebby seem to leak things to these groups, why not use an official source?

Remember the rumours 'Vineeth Rao' (or whatever he was called) was facebook messaging random fans asking for transfer advice...

How much influence do these groups potentially have in the Club's decision-making process?

Vineeth was messaging Tombo / West Sussex Rover which says it all really.

[T.J.Newton]

I posted this earlier in a now closed thread but thought, since there is a lot of talk about it, it might be worth having it's own thread...

While I appreciate what the Action Group has done (not that I agree with all of it) having direct and frank contact with Shebby and then passing this information on to the fans is a recipe for disaster. A more circumspect approach (from Shebby) is definitely needed; Kamy is exactly right. That view might not go down well with the AG but there has been too much disharmony with the fans and factions within the fan base, intended or not, are going to lead it to be splintered and argumentative on a much greater level which is not what this club needs. By all means have contact with Shebby but there has to be limits to the discussion. At some point, these individual factions are going to want to influence the running of the club, unconsciously or not, and that is where the biggest danger lies. The AG might say that this will never happen but at some point it will because that is human nature.

People disagree about virtually all aspects of a football club, from team selection to shirt design. That's perfectly normal. What is dangerous is when groups of fans get direct access to what should be privileged information and access to a key decision maker within the club who is willing and happy to talk about detailed plans within the club. The words 'undue influence' will ring out at some point even if the AG does not try to do this and makes a point of it. This is entirely why the fans forum is there and why that medium is the correct one for the fans to bring up issues and questions.

Footballing decisions and plans made for the benefit of the club should be done by those people in positions of responsibility and authority within the club. I can guarantee there are a lot of fans out there who think the current leadership is not capable or good enough. Well, guess what? Tough. We can't choose who runs the club, we could protest against them but that's not going to achieve anything. At this point, we (as fans) have to trust that they will make the correct decision. Their track record is not good. However, we have no choice.

I can very much understand why John Williams took footballing decisions and the reasons off the agenda. It makes perfect sense. The same must happen now.

very good post, i completely share your view.

although i do feel that if the fans forum was to again become the main medium between the club and the fans then i feel the forum needs a really shake up with a good handful of elected(via an open fan vote) fresh new faces.

[PAFELL]

Vineeth was messaging Tombo / West Sussex Rover which says it all really.

Plus others

[ABBEY]

I didn't reply to you, get over yourself

Haha your turn must have got fed of me

I didn't reply to you, get over yourself

Haha your turn must have got fed up of me

[47er]

It makes you wonder...

Why does Shebby seem to leak things to these groups, why not use an official source?

Remember the rumours 'Vineeth Rao' (or whatever he was called) was facebook messaging random fans asking for transfer advice...

How much influence do these groups potentially have in the Club's decision-making process?

Well, Shebby's remit was to reduce the yawning chasm between Club and supporters. With BRAG having almost 7000 members they'd be far and away the biggest supporters group we've got.

So, it would be really odd if Shebby didn't have a continuing dialogue with them wouldn't it?

Common sense isn't it?

[Glenn]

With BRAG having almost 7000 members they'd be far and away the biggest supporters group we've got.

Second largest, they're still smaller than us (it's just we don't claim to represent people, not would we ever want to, especially seeing the grief its caused recently).

[47er]

We don't actually meet though do we? Or have an elected committee? Or a membership scheme? We are simply an internet group who swap views.

BRAG has come from nowhere to being a very significant organisation in no time.

People don't like that. Noses out of joint and all that.

[CrazyIvan]

We don't actually meet though do we? Or have an elected committee? Or a membership scheme? We are simply an internet group who swap views.

BRAG has come from nowhere to being a very significant organisation in no time.

People don't like that. Noses out of joint and all that.

I have no issue with where they have come from and what they have achieved. It is remarkable. For them to be in such a position with what could be direct influence in the club is not a good position for them or the club. There is a reason the fans forum was set up the way it was and run the way it is. There is also a reason why John Williams took footballing issues off the agenda completely.

I think that the whole structure of the fans forum and BRFCSAG needs to be looked at from a club level. You can't have two groups effectively pursuing the same goal, communication between the fans and the club. An overhaul of the structure is probably in order with a combination of the two being the end result. I somehow think probably wouldn't go down well with either right now...

[mark1875]

For them to be in such a position with what could be direct influence in the club is not a good position for them or the club. There is a reason the fans forum was set up the way it was and run the way it is. There is also a reason why John Williams took footballing issues off the agenda completely.

The group does not have any direct influence in the club and we do not go in telling the club who to appoint as manager or who to pick in the team, the minutes, like our last set of minutes.. will reflect non football issues.

[CrazyIvan]

The group does not have any direct influence in the club and we do not go in telling the club who to appoint as manager or who to pick in the team, the minutes, like our last set of minutes.. will reflect non football issues.

Just remember 'perception is reality'. At some point you (BRFCAG) are going to have to engage with the fans forum and vice versa. There cannot be two groups trying to achieve the same thing. If not, I can honestly only see one outcome.

[Stuart]

Just remember 'perception is reality'. At some point you (BRFCAG) are going to have to engage with the fans forum and vice versa. There cannot be two groups trying to achieve the same thing. If not, I can honestly only see one outcome.

I don't see why they can't co-exist. The FF are a club-sponsored group who meet with the club's representatives to discuss not footballing issue. BRFCAG are an independent pressure group. As far as I can tell, on paper, they have completely different remits.