[Archived] Black Players Association

[neekoy]

Calling someone black, yellow, white, brown or purple isn't racist....there is no difference in calling someone a white kean and a black kean.

Morgan Freeman is right, he is not saying be silent, he is saying stop looking at a person's colour as a stereotype or predetermined thought of who they are as a person

By supporting colour as a racist term we are perpetuating stereotype or predetermined thought of who they are as a person. Essentially you are saying, you cannot call him black because black is bad.

The N word is deragatory because it is clearly associating them with slaves and classing them as sub human. Once again though, not racist, I can call all colours a N to describe my feelings of them within the ladder of humanity.

They are just words, it is the context that is important.

[ABBEY]

So many ignorant opinions, so many ignorant people. Reading this thread makes me mighty relieved it's been years since I lived in Blackburn.

Like the poster above me correctly implied in his argument (I honestly can't believe it took so long for someone to state the obvious), the reason there's no "white players association" is because white football players weren't subject to terrace abuse for the colour of their skin in the 70s and 80s. White football players don't get made monkey noises at in Serbia or have bananas thrown at them in football matches in Spain. I'm not saying racism against white football players has never happened, but it's extremely rare. It's the same reason there's a "gay pride" but no "straight pride". It's completely appropriate that minorities which have had a history of persecution show solidarity to try and ensure the same doesn't happen again.

And actually, racism is a far more dangerous form of abuse than many other types of abuse because of the historical context. Have fat people ever been segregated or made to go to separate schools? Has any group ever tried to kick ugly people out of its country? Has there been a history of ginger people being enslaved? The more abuse like this gets repeated and becomes acceptable, the more it brings about a culture where the things I mentioned becomes acceptable again. How hard is it to not use racist insults?

Oh and the "MOBO awards" example is the most ill informed rubbish someone can come out with. Not a big fan of the awards themselves as those who win them tend to be a bit rubbish, but it's "Music of Black Origin" - plenty of white artists have won them in the past but it's for genres of music eg hip hop, soul, r n b etc that are considered to be of "Black origin". Now if I was being pedantic rock n roll also has black origins but that doesn't change the fact it's a genre specific not race specific awards show.

Oh how are the aboriiginies?

[Kelbo]

I do believe they are creating their own racism here, indeed, did you know, there is a Black Police association, a gay Police association but no white Police association?

Why?

If we are to accept that Blacks and gays are equal in our society, why not just have a Police Association? the same with football, there is no need for it and for me, it creates a divide!!

[SydneyRover]

I do believe they are creating their own racism here, indeed, did you know, there is a Black Police association, a gay Police association but no white Police association?

Why?

If we are to accept that Blacks and gays are equal in our society, why not just have a Police Association? the same with football, there is no need for it and for me, it creates a divide!!

You don't see the need for it because you're utterly ignorant when it comes to this topic.

I'm not going to repeat myself from a few posts up, you can read it for yourself. Just as one example out of countless ones I can bring up supporting my point, in the wake of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry which found institutionalised racism in the police force, do you still not find any more need for a Black police officers force than you do a white police officers force?

[ABBEY]

Mods can we have a white only section on this board please.

[braddock]

I like these threads. Really helps you decipher how the reasoning of some posters work outside of a football equation. Which sometimes explains their reasoning in a football equation.

[braddock]

Incidentally, the MOBO awards are a celebration of music of black origin which stems from Blues music. Blues music found its origins in the cotton fields where black slaves would sing songs about their oppression. It was banned from most radio stations, etc. The awards are a celebration of how far things have come from that. They can be won by people of any race and it is a celebration of other races tolerance, acceptance of those previously (and unfortunately still) persecuted as much as it is of black people.

If you have a problem with that, then I'd be interested to hear why.

[thenodrog]

Incidentally, the MOBO awards are a celebration of music of black origin which stems from Blues music. Blues music found its origins in the cotton fields where black slaves would sing songs about their oppression. It was banned from most radio stations, etc. The awards are a celebration of how far things have come from that. They can be won by people of any race and it is a celebration of other races tolerance, acceptance of those previously (and unfortunately still) persecuted as much as it is of black people.

If you have a problem with that, then I'd be interested to hear why.

So logically the 'B' should be changed to 'blues' in that case then they could stop labouring the point for good.

[braddock]

So logically the 'B' should be changed to 'blues' in that case then they could stop labouring the point for good.

Not really, because it's essentially derived from the oppression. The oppression wasn't aimed at blues music. It was aimed at black people.

[thenodrog]

Oh how are the aboriiginies?

Good question Abbey. Still dislocated, poorly educated and unemployed with a desperately lower life expectancy and health status than the Australian immigrant community I believe. Not that anybody seems to care much.

What is it they say about people who live in glass houses?

[braddock]

Good question Abbey. Still dislocated, poorly educated and unemployed with a desperately lower life expectancy and health status than the Australian immigrant community I believe. Not that anybody seems to care much.

What is it they say about people who live in glass houses?

And of course you care oh so much.

[thenodrog]

These people's forefathers were taken from their homes and treated as dogs by a more technologically and socially advanced race and/or publicly degraded for having the audacity not to be dead. If some moron hurls racist language at them they've got the right to get a bit touchy, if not for the insult itself then for the lack of respect for what their people have been through.

Yet I don't hold any particular grudges against the Romans, Vikings or Normans. Do you XLM? All this bleeding heart slavery stuff should be consigned to the history books cos it's been outlawed here nearly two centuries ago. I am guilty of no crime against humanity, neither were my parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc etc just as I am sure neither will be my immediate descendants so why should I be pilloried and held accountable? When will it end?

To generalise why do we find so much resentment around the world against the Brits? Sure we had a massive Empire in the past but so to variously did the Mongols, Tartars, Greeks, Moors, Spanish and Romans etc. In South America the Aztecs and Incas once ruled by brutality and slavery but who resents any of them? It's history. Do I personally regret it? No. Is there anything I can do about it? No.

I tell you what I do regret namby pamby ill educated, footballers on £100,000 pw with massive chips on their shoulders crying foul all the bloody time as they drive home from their daily 2 hours training and tatooist sesssion in their massive black hummers to their godawful penthouses with private lifts, built in cinemas and tarted up foul mouthed wags.

And of course you care oh so much.

And you do? Do me a favour.

[braddock]

Yet I don't hold any particular grudges against the Romans, Vikings or Normans. Do you XLM? All this bleeding heart slavery stuff should be consigned to the history books cos it's been outlawed here nearly two centuries ago. I am guilty of no crime against humanity, neither were my parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc etc just as I am sure neither will be my immediate descendants so why should I be pilloried and held accountable? When will it end?

To generalise why do we find so much resentment around the world against the Brits? Sure we had a massive Empire in the past but so to variously did the Mongols, Tartars, Greeks, Moors, Spanish and Romans etc. In South America the Aztecs and Incas once ruled by brutality and slavery but who resents any of them? It's history. Do I personally regret it? No. Is there anything I can do about it? No.

I tell you what I do regret namby pamby ill educated, footballers on £100,000 pw with massive chips on their shoulders crying foul all the bloody time as they drive home from their daily 2 hours training and tatooist sesssion in their massive black hummers to their godawful penthouses with private lifts, built in cinemas and tarted up foul mouthed wags.

And you do? Do me a favour.

You don't understand that there is inequality in current society when it comes to peoples race, alongside other things such as sex and sexuality? Wow.

What favour can I do for you? I can't guarantee I can do it, or wish to but I'm willing to listen. Yes, as a matter of fact inequality is one of my prime concerns. Unfortunately, I don't do enough about it as I'd like.

edit - no suprise that you managed to generalise all footballers there too. You seem the generalising sort.

[thenodrog]

You don't understand that there is inequality in current society when it comes to peoples race, alongside other things such as sex and sexuality? Wow.

Where did I say that?

Before you answer please consider that the most powerful country on the planet has a black President, the most powerful country in the EU is led by a woman. Our head of state is a woman and in the past we've had a jew, a female and a homosexual as Prime Minister. Inequality?

[imy9]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/21/news/economy/wealth-gap-race/index.htm

[braddock]

Where did I say that?

Before you answer please consider that the most powerful country on the planet has a black President, the most powerful country in the EU is led by a woman. Our head of state is a woman and in the past we've had a jew, a female and a homosexual as Prime Minister. Inequality?

You seemed to say it by saying people need to forget about the history when it comes to black people. The entire racism debate isn't something that can be forgotten as though it is over. It is still evolving and it is best understood with embracing the past an learning from the mistakes. The Vikings, however do not still persecute us, so to an extent we don't have to be so conscious about it in todays society, as interesting as history can be and the effects the entirety of history has had on societies around the world.

As for your list, there are many generally repressive societies who have had female leaders. It is about societies as a whole rather than single instances of otherwise repressed people gaining a foothold at the top of society.

[SouthAussieRover]

Oh how are the aboriiginies?

Awesome counter argument.

[greco]

'XLM'

I'm fine with black players forming a union and making a stand against the wider football community turning a blind eye to racism. Let's not forget many within UEFA have stated that there is no racism in football, which watching games played in Eastern Europe shows clearly isn't the case. Players and fans should be held accountable for racism and locked up. There is no excuse for such ignorance in this day and age, we live in a global community.

turning the blind eye to racism.? what "global community" do you live in.? There has been several campaigns from fifa, uefa and a lot of national organisations, if anything racism is definetly on the agenda.

And as for if black players have a group white players should too... That's just nonsense. These people's forefathers were taken from their homes and treated as dogs by a more technologically and socially advanced race and/or publicly degraded for having the audacity not to be dead. If some moron hurls racist language at them they've got the right to get a bit touchy, if not for the insult itself then for the lack of respect for what their people have been through.

every culture has had slavery, but for some reason its the worst of the worst because they were black.? How about the the aztecs, inka´s or my forefathers the vikings.? the vikings went on a little trip, had a great time raping, killing and torturing the brits, do you hate me because of that.?

what happende years ago, is irrelevant now. If anything its time to let go of the history and move on, otherwise we´ll be stuck with the same underlying theme "the white man was evil, the new generation must pay, the black man was a victim and as such the new generation can demand special treatment". If thats the case, how the hell are we supposed to move on?

you would never see a black player get crucified for saying you white piece of kean, but turn the tables and you would. If thats how things are going to be, the outcry for unity will never be heard nor accepted.

creating a black players organisation is not the answer, imo its going to create a more divided mentatlity, not only within football, but also within the society.

[braddock]

Please see my above posts with regards to your 'the past is irrelevant' nonesense, greco.

[greco]

Please see my above posts with regards to your 'the past is irrelevant' nonesense, greco.

its not nonsense, the underlying theme, is what is the determing factor braddock. If a race are being given preferencial treatment because of past mistakes, thats not unity, thats racism, so in essense racism is being fought with racism. Learn from the past, yes, live in it, no.

[Andy]

How to conquer division and prejudice?

Hmm.

Let's set up a division and discriminate against those who don't fit into our group, by not allowing them to be part of our group.

Makes sense.

[braddock]

its not nonsense, the underlying theme, is what is the determing factor braddock. If a race are being given preferencial treatment because of past mistakes, thats not unity, thats racism, so in essense racism is being fought with racism. Learn from the past, yes, live in it, no.

Preferrential treatment? Yes, that wouldn't be good. But protecting people from a type of prejudice they recieve that others don't or putting things in place to give people the same access to opportunity is not. And we do not have equality when it comes to access to opportunity.

[braddock]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/24/pfa-criticism-action-plan-racism

Taylor's action plan calls for:

1

Speeding up the process of dealing with reported racist abuse with close monitoring of any incidents.

2

Consideration of stiffer penalties for racist abuse and to include an equality awareness programme for culprits and clubs involved.

3

An English form of the "Rooney rule" – introduced by the NFL in America in 2003 – to make sure qualified black coaches are on interview lists for job vacancies.

4

The proportion of black coaches and managers to be monitored and any inequality or progress highlighted.

5

Racial abuse to be considered gross misconduct in player and coach contracts (and therefore potentially a sackable offence).

6

Not to lose sight of other equality issues such as gender, sexual orientation, disability, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and Asians in football.

[XLM]

Yet I don't hold any particular grudges against the Romans, Vikings or Normans. Do you XLM? All this bleeding heart slavery stuff should be consigned to the history books cos it's been outlawed here nearly two centuries ago. I am guilty of no crime against humanity, neither were my parents, grandparents, great grandparents etc etc just as I am sure neither will be my immediate descendants so why should I be pilloried and held accountable? When will it end?

Firstly, it isn't up to you to decide when a section of people should forget what they have been through. Secondly, nobody is implicating you. Why you would ever assume that? None of this should affect your life.

To generalise why do we find so much resentment around the world against the Brits? Sure we had a massive Empire in the past but so to variously did the Mongols, Tartars, Greeks, Moors, Spanish and Romans etc. In South America the Aztecs and Incas once ruled by brutality and slavery but who resents any of them? It's history. Do I personally regret it? No. Is there anything I can do about it? No.

It's nothing to do with who may have done things in the past, it's about stopping people from being racist now. It doesn't matter who it is. I don't see why you seem to think that you, as a British person, are being punished. It's not about blame.

You're constantly missing the point. The discussion isn't about what happened then, it's about what is still happening now. I don't care who did/does it, it shouldn't happen now.

turning the blind eye to racism.? what "global community" do you live in.? There has been several campaigns from fifa, uefa and a lot of national organisations, if anything racism is definetly on the agenda.

I was wrong when I said UEFA, it was Blatter that said there is no racism. John Terry received a 4 match ban for a racist remark (whether you think it was or not, he was found guilty of it) that would have seen me sacked, not put on paid sabbatical and fined the equivalent of a week's wage.

FIFA and UEFA don't give a toss about racism or any form of prejudice. If they did then Poland & Ukraine wouldn't have got the Euros and Qatar certainly wouldn't have got the World Cup. It's all about spreading football around the globe and ultimately; money, money, money.

And I live in the same global community that you do, one that allows me to be in the same discussion as somebody from Australia.

every culture has had slavery, but for some reason its the worst of the worst because they were black.? How about the the aztecs, inka´s or my forefathers the vikings.? the vikings went on a little trip, had a great time raping, killing and torturing the brits, do you hate me because of that.?

what happende years ago, is irrelevant now. If anything its time to let go of the history and move on, otherwise we´ll be stuck with the same underlying theme "the white man was evil, the new generation must pay, the black man was a victim and as such the new generation can demand special treatment". If thats the case, how the hell are we supposed to move on?

Again, it's not up to you to decide it's irrelevant. And this has nothing to do with blame etc. Nobody is saying the white man is evil. I just don't understand this selfish attitude that a group that they aren't allowed to be a part of must be against them.

Oh and you can't compare something that is happening now (albeit far less than 50 or so years ago) to something that happened centuries and centuries ago. If you need that explaining then I give up.

you would never see a black player get crucified for saying you white piece of kean, but turn the tables and you would. If thats how things are going to be, the outcry for unity will never be heard nor accepted.

Would you be offended if someone called you a white piece of s***? It doesn't have the same connotations as it does for black people. The white man still has the vast majority of the money and the power.

creating a black players organisation is not the answer, imo its going to create a more divided mentatlity, not only within football, but also within the society.

There shouldn't need to be a black players' organisation, I agree. But unfortunately it seems as though there does.

[greco]

Preferrential treatment? Yes, that wouldn't be good. But protecting people from a type of prejudice they recieve that others don't or putting things in place to give people the same access to opportunity is not. And we do not have equality when it comes to access to opportunity.

are you saying that blacks, asians or hispanics l, do not have the same rights as white people in britain.?