[Archived] Rovers home gates...are Rovers "fiddling" the figures?

[Mike Graham]

We heard, via a Lancs police source that the gates for the first couple of home games were actually 2,000 less than what was announced by Rovers.

Yesterday it was announced at c13,200 which appeared to be about 2,500 over the actual gate. There were about 200 Watford fans and no way was the rest of Ewood 1/3 full with Rovers fans.

I know that some on this MB will explain This away by "they include ST holders whether they attend or not", if so why have Rovers NEVER followed this practice before?

This is not a thread about the standard of football, the management nor ownership.

This is a thread asking the questions: are the announced gates real (in my opinion they are inflated by 2K to 2.5K); and if the are in correct why are Rovers doing this?

[McClarky]

They have included tickets sold rather than actual attendance for a few years, I think most clubs do that. Don't think there is anything to it other than this but there wasn't 13000 on yesterday.

[Mattyblue]

Rovers have counted ST holders if they attend or not for the last few years.

Think back to K***'s first game against West Ham when it was about minus 10, there was never 21000 people in the ground.

However, are they fiddling them in other ways now? Free STs being counted etc? no idea, but There was certainly not 13200 people in that ground yesterday.

[Mike Graham]

Correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that a few weeks ago someone at Rovers said the gates announced were the "actual" gates.

[Paul]

I think you're wrong PB. My recollection is Rovers announce the gate based on ticket numbers sold*** but a different number, those counted through the turnstiles, has to be given to the emergency services. I think someone with connections to the police gave us a couple of actual numbers. On both occasions this was the lower number.

*** if it is based on numbers sold the figure will be known much earlier than announced. I don't believe for one moment we had 13,200 yesterday, perhaps 11,000 to be generous.

[broadsword]

Correct me if I am wrong but I am sure that a few weeks ago someone at Rovers said the gates announced were the "actual" gates.

I seem to remember something on the club's twitter account about only counting people attending the game.

In any case, 13k would be an appalling attendance given what we were getting in the Premiership ... the only people to blame for that are Venky's. It's all going to end in tears, isn't it?

[chaddyrovers]

We heard, via a Lancs police source that the gates for the first couple of home games were actually 2,000 less than what was announced by Rovers.

Yesterday it was announced at c13,200 which appeared to be about 2,500 over the actual gate. There were about 200 Watford fans and no way was the rest of Ewood 1/3 full with Rovers fans.

I know that some on this MB will explain This away by "they include ST holders whether they attend or not", if so why have Rovers NEVER followed this practice before?

This is not a thread about the standard of football, the management nor ownership.

This is a thread asking the questions: are the announced gates real (in my opinion they are inflated by 2K to 2.5K); and if the are in correct why are Rovers doing this?

they was about 800 to 1000 watford fans there.

the Darwen end holds about 7,500 in total

[Paul]

they was about 800 to 1000 watford fans there.

the Darwen end holds about 7,500 in total

Not sure this is correct. The DE holds 8000, 3k upper, 5k lower. Each half of the lower holds 2500 I would have put the Watford support at 5-600.

[Mike Graham]

I think you're wrong PB. My recollection is Rovers announce the gate based on ticket numbers sold*** but a different number, those counted through the turnstiles, has to be given to the emergency services. I think someone with connections to the police gave us a couple of actual numbers. On both occasions this was the lower number.

*** if it is based on numbers sold the figure will be known much earlier than announced. I don't believe for one moment we had 13,200 yesterday, perhaps 11,000 to be generous.

Fair enough, maybe a sensed a rat that did not exist. :-)

[chaddyrovers]

Not sure this is correct. The DE holds 8000, 3k upper, 5k lower. Each half of the lower holds 2500 I would have put the Watford support at 5-600.

abit more than 200 tho. about 700 fans I reckon

[den]

I seem to remember something on the club's twitter account about only counting people attending the game.

That's right, I posted that on here.

[Mercer]

I have a theory which may or may not be correct.

Firstly, it seems likely that Rovers' declared attendance is made-up of season ticket 'holders' whether they attend of not.

The key point, IMO, is what constitutes a season ticket 'holder' ?

Suppose the club wanted to create say 2,000 complimentary season tickets which could be used, or not used, as they saw fit on a match by match basis. This would have a two fold 'benefit' from the club's perspective:

• Firstly, it would enable the the club to claim an artificially higher number of season ticket 'holders'
  
• Secondly, it would enable the club to legitimately declare higher official attendances if the inclusion of season ticket 'holders' is a practice that some clubs follow
  

I think that it's quite clear that it would be perceived as disastrous and damming if the club had been declaring gates in the range of 10,000 to 11,000.

People I talk to who still go to Ewood have a view that, Wolves apart, the number of people in the ground has been significantly less than the declared gate. It is also difficult to think that 1 in every 4 or 5 season ticket holders miss every match !

I know what my view is.

[broadsword]

If you think that's bad, what if the true gate were to dip below 10k?!

Now that would be embarrassing for the owners.

[Paul]

Mercerman I have a vague recollection of JW once saying approximately 10% if STs could be missing at any particular game. I think JW would have been very sure of that figure.

[Mercer]

Mercerman I have a vague recollection of JW once saying approximately 10% if STs could be missing at any particular game. I think JW would have been very sure of that figure.

Well, 10% of 7 or 8 thousand doesn't represent the difference between say 11 and 13.5 thousand !

[Ianrally]

Well there's certainly something funny going on. As a season ticket holder for the past 45 years, I have not renewed this season but bought match tickets on a match to match basis. For the last three home games I tried to buy tickets on the official site for our old three seats in the BE lower. These have shown as not available on every occasion on the ground plan, so at first I thought they had been sold to season ticket holders.

I bought seats in other areas of the BE but always looked at who was in our old seats. Guess what? The three invisible men.

[tomphil]

they was about 800 to 1000 watford fans there.

the Darwen end holds about 7,500 in total

Watford brought 584 that's the official figure. As for the rest of ground no way, no how was there more than 10k.

[Paul]

Well, 10% of 7 or 8 thousand doesn't represent the difference between say 11 and 13.5 thousand !

No, no I wasn't attempting to argue with your theory / figures merely passing on what I heard JW say in the dim and distant past.

[mhead]

It does not matter what the official gate is. I have used my Season ticket once and probably been counted each time.

What counts is that the Venkys will know the actual attendance figure and it worries the kean out of them!

Season ticket holders are very committed to the Rovers as a 'town' institution and know when we are being 'keaned' over by amateurs.

[Ossydave]

Where's all the pricks that were coming back when Kean went?

[Ste B]

I believe he was moving house yesterday.

[philipl]

I was there yesterday and would not have put the ground above a third full.

[roverandout]

well im a season-ticket holder and i didnt attend yesterday due to work, wonder if they counted me in their official attendance?

[Mattyblue]

It was painfully obvious that once these fans stopped attending, it would be damn difficult to get them back. What starts as a protest, quckly turns into a choice of doing something different with your leisure time.

That's why the unnecessary relegation and Kean debacle this summer could be terminal for this club. You lose 10000 fans in 2 years for a club our size, how the hell do you recover?

[Glenn]

Where's all the pricks that were coming back when Kean went?

B&Q?