[Archived] Henning Berg - Rovers Manager

[onlyonejackwalker]

I think you need a new calculator pal. That would be a 12-18 million loss over a 6 month period.

Not beyond the realms of possibility.

Glad someone else adds up like I do.

[Mercer]

Bloody hell! You don't learn do you? How's that Wednesday bet looking?

Not as good as recent bets on Kean, Coyle & Howe leaving or Freedman, Berg & Appleton being appointed, though lost a bit on OGS not coming to Rovers.

Wouldn't want to spoil your afternoon, or give you indigestion, by telling you how much I cleared but all decent odds with Kean @ 40/1 ! Missus and kids all looking forward to Christmas !

Palace will no doubt cash in on their main asset in January, they wont be able to keep him, especially now in the international squad, indeed, a player of that quality would take the attention of two players in a game and thats why Palace are motoring at the moment, as for Bolton, we shall see, they have Eagles who is a dangerous player but I doubt they have massive quality in their side but I would think Rovers have more than them, however, bringing through youth players looks like what Berg is doing but it takes time and even wee Dougie wouldnt have two years at Rovers to do that!!

Agree but the guy has so much in his locker including a ruthless streak, an 'edge' and above all, a winning mentality.

Kelbo, I know that you are a 'Berg man' and for Rovers' sake, I sincerely hope that his appointment proves to be a masterstroke, even if a tad fortuitous.

[Mercer]

Bolton have just lost £23milliom and now are in debt to £135million !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20310338

[onlyonejackwalker]

Bolton have just lost £23milliom and now are in debt to £135million !

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/20310338

Frightening stuff. 125 mill owed to Davies. It is clear we are trading above our means as well. Let's hope the Venky's are prepared to stump up the cash if it gets critical. Be careful what you wish for eh? So many desperately wanted new owners and here we are.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Interview with opening poster Puffsan in the latest podcast, Podcast 48, discussing Henning's managerial career in Norway. Big thanks to him for coming on and sharing his knowledge and views with us.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Losing 2-3 Mil per month, what a load o-f rubbish, your saying that in six months we would have lost between 48 - 72 mil, if that was the case Venkys would have give us away, i give up on some of you lot .

2 x 6 = 48. Please don't give up on us, I feel as if there's so much to learn from you.

[Kelbo]

Not as good as recent bets on Kean, Coyle & Howe leaving or Freedman, Berg & Appleton being appointed, though lost a bit on OGS not coming to Rovers.

Wouldn't want to spoil your afternoon, or give you indigestion, by telling you how much I cleared but all decent odds with Kean @ 40/1 ! Missus and kids all looking forward to Christmas !

Agree but the guy has so much in his locker including a ruthless streak, an 'edge' and above all, a winning mentality.

Kelbo, I know that you are a 'Berg man' and for Rovers' sake, I sincerely hope that his appointment proves to be a masterstroke, even if a tad fortuitous.

I am a Berg man for two reasons, firstly because he is honest and a great professional and secondly, reading into his background, he made himself a player with hard work, wasnt the most talented as a youngster, but worked so hard at getting to the top, it has to rub off and Ollsons comment in todays LT 'I watched Berg play and he was a legend and when he speaks we listen'

You dont get to the top, get 100 International caps, win the Premier League with two different clubs, the Champions League and Worthington cup, without a winning mentality either, my information coming out of Brockhall is that he knows what he wants, is very decisive and communicates well to players!

[davulsukur]

How much of the inside track do you have at Brockhall Kelbo? For example do you know how the training has differed from Kean to Berg?

I saw Olsson's comment in the LT which sounded like a good step in the right direction.

[Kelbo]

How much of the inside track do you have at Brockhall Kelbo? For example do you know how the training has differed from Kean to Berg?

I saw Olsson's comment in the LT which sounded like a good step in the right direction.

Not been told much other than what Olsson has posted except that he wants the ball played on the deck as much as possible and to press the ball higher up the park and counter with pace, as for the training, if that was the case, I would assume he is working on both fitness and pace as well as tactics!

[EgyptianPete]

I think you need a new calculator pal. That would be a 12-18 million loss over a 6 month period.

Not beyond the realms of possibility.

My Bad you are quite correct, sounds a bit more realistic, if someone has solid proof then get it into the open.

2 x 6 = 48. Please don't give up on us, I feel as if there's so much to learn from you.

:wstu: :xmas: Doh, Not an accountant you will be glad to hear

[Andy]

The scary thing I find about all this is that Steve Kean was a COACH. If there's one area you'd think he'd excel it's on the training pitch. Considering how unfit and undisciplined we've looked under his tenure, he's obviously the biggest fraud going.

Exactly.

Apparently Kean was a good coach, but in reality the only thing he's good at is self publicity and deceit.

If the weasel didn't even know how to coach a team...whilst being a so-called coach...then that speaks volumes.

Also, regarding the requirement of promotion this season - why then gamble on a relatively inexperienced coach, when there were much safer options free and available?

Ah yeah...the cheap option...

[davulsukur]

Not been told much other than what Olsson has posted except that he wants the ball played on the deck as much as possible and to press the ball higher up the park and counter with pace, as for the training, if that was the case, I would assume he is working on both fitness and pace as well as tactics!

Fitness was always going to be something that needed to be worked on. No idea how Kean ever expected to win a game if the players are not up to the required fitness levels.

All the noises being made so far are a good start.

[JBiz]

Let's not get too carried way with "winning the Champions League" Henning played no part in the 1999 final, he wasn't even a sub. In fairness he didn't shove himself to he middle of the photo like David May either

As I mentioned before my memory is hazy but I still recall Berg being critical to the campaign. Overhead kick off the line against Juve in the semis seems to fit...

http://manutd24.co.uk/2011/09/15/retrospective-8-the-forgotten-men-of-‘99/

"Henning Berg came to play a crucial role – seeming to save his best performances for the European stage. The footage of Zamorano failing to dislodge the gargantuan Stam when backing in cemented the Dutchman’s cult status yet over the two legs against Inter Milan, it was the Norwegian who twice prevented certain goals which could and probably would have curtailed our Champions League ambitions. Berg’s bicycle kick clearance when facing his own goal at the San Siro remains one of the most brilliant pieces of defending I have ever seen."

Inter... Not juve

[J*B]

I've got major issues with anyone saying they got money from a bookies on Kean. I didn't, because I couldn't find any bookies offering "next to leave" odds. I had "next to be sacked" at 35-1 and didn't see a penny because he wasn't sacked.

[Neil Weaver]

Josh, there was definitely a 'Next Manager to Leave' market at BetVictor - just checked my account there and got on at 6/1 (I remember others got a lot better odds earlier that day). I think there was a market at Skybet too, can't be sure though.

[thenodrog]

Deleted.... Egyptian Pete's taken enough stick.

[TBTF]

Are you sure you're not just plucking random scary numbers out of the air in an attempt to be alarmist and dramatic?.

The prosecution claimed in Samba's court case he was earning 100k p.w. by the time he left Ewood. I wouldn't imagine you'd see much change out of 50k p.w. either for the likes of Nelsen, Roberts, Emerton, Yakubu, Salgado and Nzonzi. In ball park terms that's 23m p.a. saved on those six players alone.

Then there's the likes of EH Diouf, Junior, Phil Jones, Grella and Petrovic. Not much change out of 40k p.w. each there either I'd guess. 10m p.a saved there, 33m p.a. saved in total.

OK the figures aren't exact and other players have come in but the wage bill must still be much lower than it was at it's Premiership peak. I wouldn't like to hazard a guess as to how much Nuno Gomes is on but I wouldn't be surprised if the other Portugese lads you're harping on about are on less than Samba was earning combined.

In any event losses are not a huge issue if owners are able and willing and happy to meet them. I will concede that the pattern elsewhere with foreign owners seems to be that they accept huge losses as a matter of course for a limited period, then very quickly seem to tire of it and pull the plug almost over night. Not too far removed from what happened with the Trustees really although their withdrawal was a more gradual process.

Revidge my old son-an attempt to be alarmist and dramtic eh???

My ''random'' numbers came from the 31 players we had registered in our match programme as at the Watford match.I had 3 players on £2m as our highest paid and 7 players on £250k pa being our lowest, and this included most of the Portugese that Shebby has adopted.It is difficult to see how that lot can come to less than £25m per annum.Then we have coaching staff, academy players and staff, manager, board of directors (senior staff), upkeep of Ewoof , Brockhall, travel it just goes on and on. Then we have the litany of compensation claims and redundancy payments so you could easily see this total costs being upwards of £40m with income being £16m parachute payments and not much else.

Lets make the assumption that we were close to break even/debt free call it what you will as at May this year.But the Samba's , Salgados. Diouf's Nzonzis, Yakubu's were against Premiership income heading up towards £40m not the £16m we currently have to work to.

Shebby changed the dynamics this Summer on this spend spend spend assault on Promotion.Venky's will have coughed up for the transfer fees for Best, Rhodes and any others that had fees attached plus instalments on Dann etc etc So that could account for say £12m which when added to the running costs/losses of around £20m will soon eat into a £40m overdraft at Bank of India.

My point was that i don't think Venkys signed up for that level of cost and to think they would have it all to do again next year is not something i think they would fund.We also have significantly less value in our playing assets than we had a year ago with probably only Rhodes being worth his money in a sale and the likes of Dann/Olsson(3)/Hanley probably worth a couple of mill on a good day.

So its a dramatically different picture to last year when we had assets and i just don't believe there will be any more in the cupboard when push comes to shove for Venkys.

I think losses at £2m a month are a virtual certainty and so we need to be very concerned- Andy Cryer is right.

Bolton are losing the same amount per annum(so its not far fetched for us to be at least the same) and have to keep going back cap in hand to that Davies guy .They owe him £135million but he is their Uncle Jack and probably won't even want it back whereas we are being hocked up against a bloody bank in India-that is vastly different.

Alarmist and dramatic Revidge old boy???? Tell me which bit i have got massively wrong and then i will get myself off to Drama school.

Kamy and Mercer seem to be on the case with the financial state-do you 2 agree with this assessment??

[thenodrog]

Bolton have just lost £23milliom and now are in debt to £135million !

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/20310338

I seem to rem Eddie Davies was charging them interest at 11%. On the 125m owing to him thats 13m pa..... or in the region of double their annual ST revenue!

LankyU FC is another step closer.

[CapeTownRover]

so much better under Berg, the team is playing well, and the fans who were there were brilliant. Its just a pity, that we didnt change manager at the beginning of last season.

so much better under Berg, the team is playing well, and the fans who were there were brilliant. Its just a pity, that we didnt change manager at the beginning of last season.

[broadsword]

??????????

It's a tragedy we appointed him in the first keaning place!

The amount of damage he's done in two years just isn't true. And it will take a long time to come out of it.

Bob Lord couldn't have done it better ... Kean right now is probably lord it up somewhere in an algarve villa, counting his ill-gotten dough. Very dignified.

[Mercer]

I've got major issues with anyone saying they got money from a bookies on Kean. I didn't, because I couldn't find any bookies offering "next to leave" odds. I had "next to be sacked" at 35-1 and didn't see a penny because he wasn't sacked.

This is the equivalent for PL.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/next-manager-to-leave-post

Championship one seems to have disappeared now - it was defo there. With being a smaller market, perhaps the bookies took a bit of a caning !

[Mercer]

Revidge my old son-an attempt to be alarmist and dramtic eh???

My ''random'' numbers came from the 31 players we had registered in our match programme as at the Watford match.I had 3 players on £2m as our highest paid and 7 players on £250k pa being our lowest, and this included most of the Portugese that Shebby has adopted.It is difficult to see how that lot can come to less than £25m per annum.Then we have coaching staff, academy players and staff, manager, board of directors (senior staff), upkeep of Ewoof , Brockhall, travel it just goes on and on. Then we have the litany of compensation claims and redundancy payments so you could easily see this total costs being upwards of £40m with income being £16m parachute payments and not much else.

Lets make the assumption that we were close to break even/debt free call it what you will as at May this year.But the Samba's , Salgados. Diouf's Nzonzis, Yakubu's were against Premiership income heading up towards £40m not the £16m we currently have to work to.

Shebby changed the dynamics this Summer on this spend spend spend assault on Promotion.Venky's will have coughed up for the transfer fees for Best, Rhodes and any others that had fees attached plus instalments on Dann etc etc So that could account for say £12m which when added to the running costs/losses of around £20m will soon eat into a £40m overdraft at Bank of India.

My point was that i don't think Venkys signed up for that level of cost and to think they would have it all to do again next year is not something i think they would fund.We also have significantly less value in our playing assets than we had a year ago with probably only Rhodes being worth his money in a sale and the likes of Dann/Olsson(3)/Hanley probably worth a couple of mill on a good day.

So its a dramatically different picture to last year when we had assets and i just don't believe there will be any more in the cupboard when push comes to shove for Venkys.

I think losses at £2m a month are a virtual certainty and so we need to be very concerned- Andy Cryer is right.

Bolton are losing the same amount per annum(so its not far fetched for us to be at least the same) and have to keep going back cap in hand to that Davies guy .They owe him £135million but he is their Uncle Jack and probably won't even want it back whereas we are being hocked up against a bloody bank in India-that is vastly different.

Alarmist and dramatic Revidge old boy???? Tell me which bit i have got massively wrong and then i will get myself off to Drama school.

Kamy and Mercer seem to be on the case with the financial state-do you 2 agree with this assessment??

Produced some 'rough' numbers a couple of months ago.

From memory, I estimated our total turnover for 2012/13, including £16m parachute money, would be approx. £27m.

First team squad labour costs I had at about £35m which included about £5m for social security costs.

As you pointed out, add to that manager / coaching / scouting / medical staff, academy players, board of directors (senior staff), upkeep of Ewood & Brockhall including staff, match accommodation and travel, legal and auditing etc, you could quite easily add another £10m. Add to that agents fees (£3m ?) and overdraft interest (£1m ?) and you are at an operating cash loss of £22m.

There are then redundancy / compensation costs and, of course, net player trading costs / receipts..

Quite easy to see where the speculated monthly losses of £2m to £3m come from.

[Stuart]

I seem to rem Eddie Davies was charging them interest at 11%. On the 125m owing to him thats 13m pa..... or in the region of double their annual ST revenue!

LankyU FC is another step closer.

Are Bolton really in the kean though?

Whenever I talk to Bolton fans they seem comfortable that they 'only' owe Davies. I'm assuming that they believe there are some kind of covenants wiping the debt and he won't put it into the hands of a reluctant trust to manage and dispose of.

So rather than immediate meltdown and liquidation they simply have to cut their cloth - albeit rather quickly? Player contracts will be critical - much like us - should the worst happen.

[RevidgeBlue]

Berg has made a reasonably promising start in terms of how the team looks and given the length of time he's been here.

Of course ultimately it's no good us dominating games and playing brilliant football if we can't finish teams off at one end and keep conceding sloppy goals at the other. I think Berg is as well aware of that as anyone judging by his comments.

It's a shame the thread got hijacked by TBTF wanting to spread panic about the finances. I wouldn't be surprised if were inurring quite heavy losses at the moment. If Venky's are prepared to live with and cover that in an attempt to get back into the Premier League tbat's their prerogative however.

If the point is that we have to go up this season and we needed an experienced manager then I would say there's no guarantees in football and there's no way of saying with any real certainty that we'd be any more or less likely to go up Berg than anyone else. (Unless you're going to pick from the likes of Mourinho)

One set of players might react well to Berg and his preferred style of play and tank under Mick McCarthy and another group of players might react well to McCarthy and not Berg. So let's see what happens and give him a chance.

[Ossydave]

press the ball higher up the park

This has definitely been noticeable since he took over and this pleases me greatly! I used to always bang on about the lack of pressing under Kean it used to drive me insane. As fitness inproves this will also help that side of things too