Boxing Megathread

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, Silas said:

I guarantee you Wilder and AJ don't get anywhere near to ragdolling Usyk. 

He's 6"3 btw. 

Wilder could well "ice" him, but he can do that to anyone.

Hughie Fury?! My word, Usyk is so many levels above him it's not even worth putting on. You're right, no way anyone pays to sanction that fight. 

Parker maybe. But at 33 Usyk doesn't have time to piss about. He wants to fight the best, so let's crack on and do it. 

He wouldnt best the best british heavyweights i dont think..Dubois would beat him

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Silas said:

I guarantee you Wilder and AJ don't get anywhere near to ragdolling Usyk. 

He's 6"3 btw. 

Wilder could well "ice" him, but he can do that to anyone.

Hughie Fury?! My word, Usyk is so many levels above him it's not even worth putting on. You're right, no way anyone pays to sanction that fight. 

Parker maybe. But at 33 Usyk doesn't have time to piss about. He wants to fight the best, so let's crack on and do it. 

Reason i mentioned him is he's very mobile he could dance with Usyk all night and it is a fight that theoretically could happen in the future. Hughie is with fast Eddie now remember and yes Usyk is 33 but as unified Cruiser champ he's automatic mandatory for one of AJs belts.  So he'll get chance at him or whoever or fight for it if it comes vacant.

Btw never believe these height things are right on the button - they're known to round it up to the nearest inch or two ( what bloke doesn't ?)

[Silas]

10 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He wouldnt best the best british heavyweights i dont think..Dubois would beat him

Dubois is the next Mike Tyson though. All aboard the hype train....choo choo! I'm in carriage C getting stuck into the drinks trolley. ?

I think you and Tomphil maybe getting me wrong. I'm not saying some of them don't beat him, it was the term "ragdoll" I was struggling with. He's got far too much experience and ring IQ for that to happen imo.

If the likes of AJ and Wilder beat him, it's probably Rd 5/6 onwards with him up 4 rds up, and then yes, their power may take over and put him to sleep.

I don't see them bullying him like some folk say. He's not that bloody small.

And if gets to later rounds with him well up on points then fighters will start getting desperate. And he could well take advantage of that and pick them off. Imagine if the supposed small fry sparked out one of the main contenders. ???

Anyway, shud be fun to watch, let's get it on. 

[tomphil]

I think if you look at last night Delboy set a pace he was never going to sustain but it worked for a few rounds. Threw Usyk off his rythmn and game plan and he was being roughed up a bit.  Spent round after round complaining like a little girl, welcome to the real big boys. Once he got his range and Chisora slowed right down he coasted it but the extra weight really told early doors.  That's with virtually no power in the odd shots that were catching him.

Swap that for the better big lads he'll need to go on his toes imo.

As for Dubois i'd just love him to come from nowhere and clean of the division like Tyson did but he's a long way from that. Might well do it though given time and the demise of one or two of the big lads after they've locked horns with each other a few times.  Don't think he'll land himself in jail either.

[Sparks Rover]

8 minutes ago, Silas said:

 

I don't see them bullying him like some folk say. He's not that bloody small.

Looked it to me.  If he is 6foot3 id be surprised.  Looked.scrawny relatively 

[Silas]

26 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Looked it to me.  If he is 6foot3 id be surprised.  Looked.scrawny relatively 

If boxing was just about size then we'd all be rich from picking the winner of a fight everytime. 

It's a bit wordy,  but if you're interested read the first couple of posts in this thread. He breaks it down well. 

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/a-helpful-guide-in-processing-the-win-over-chisora-by-the-charismatic-enigma-that-is-oleksandr-usyk.657740/

A few highlights:

So Del Boy knowing all of this, came out guns blazing, trying to impose his size on Usyk and ragdoll him around the ring. And unlike most fighters at Heavyweight, Chisora is actually capable of executing this strategy to perfection, since it's literally his style...

 

Take the style that gave Fury issues, like Wallin, well Usyk does everything better than Wallin. The style that gave AJ problems, like Parker and Ruiz, Usyk does everything better than they do. The styles that have given Wilder issues, slick southpaws, Szpilka and Ortiz, Usyk is far slicker, with far better stamina than both of them.

 But the people who seem to have convinced themselves that it will be a walk in the park for the Big 3, you're deluding yourselves.

 

I agree with at lot of what he says. I reckon Usyk could be a real contender in the heavyweight division, for the next couple years at least.

If I end up with egg on my face for saying that, then so be it. 

Tell you what, if/when he gets matched with one of the big boys, come back to me, we'll have a little charity bet. He's a very accomplished boxer, and to be quite frank, AJ is massively overrated.

No-one likes to hear it, but Joshua was expertly managed by Eddie Hearn during his pro career after the London Olympics. His achievements far outweigh his talent. His bank balance certainly does. Hearn may not be good be for boxing fans, but he's a magician for most of his fighters. Tony Bellew has double digit millions in the bank for instance. 

[tomphil]

Agree with a lot of the Hearn stuff but that's his job and it's nothing Warren hasn't done either he just doesn't have the platform anymore.

Joshua is where he is on merit they all get hyped it's all Fury at the present time. Strip that back to its bare bones and despite him looking the most comfortable boxer he's steered himself very well also since he outhustled a Klitschko nearing the end.

Modern era allows all this type of thing more than any other because the pool of talent is so sparse and they earn so much only fighting now and again. Joshua has done his mandatory stuff like a proper champion should no ifs buts or maybes or hype it is plain fact.  However he's fortunate that most of those are old men on the wain.  The fact they are the genuine mandos shows again how weak this era is and how the proper eliminators don't usually get made any more.

Fury for his part has turned on the big night twice 4 years apart and pulled it off but in between he takes the piss and keeps himself with as minimal risk as is possible.  The very thing he and everybody else abused Wilder for for years, yet he always seems to get a free pass for it there's always excuses.  Very crafty.

Sooner this little trio have concluded their business and moved on the better then the division might rebalance itself a bit. Not sure where the next real characters are going to come from though that's why it needs someone from leftfield to clean it up or pull off a few shocks.

That won't be Usyk i'll happily take a bet on if he's matched with one of the big 3 next.  

[Silas]

56 minutes ago, tomphil said:

  The very thing he and everybody else abused Wilder for for years, yet he always seems to get a free pass for it there's always excuses.  Very crafty.

Yeah, fair point. Hadn't really thought about it like that. He certainly seems to get a pass for the testing furore and ban, whereas other boxers are tarred and feathered. 

 

56 minutes ago, tomphil said:

That won't be Usyk i'll happily take a bet on if he's matched with one of the big 3 next.  

Haven't said what the bets gonna be yet. ?

Not welshing, but for example, my offer might be he definately lasts 8 rds and is also up on cards at that point. Seems you two think he gets blasted out in 5 or something. 

Anyway,  would all depend on the opponent. Let's see what the future brings. 

[tomphil]

No i don't think he gets blasted like i already said i think he could out run any of them including Fury.  Just don't think he'd land enough without taking it back to make a convincing effort at points.

My view is 70/30 he gets out big manned because he doesn't carry enough zap in his punches to keep them off. 

Hopefully we find out iv'e a sneaking feeling that Wilder/Fury will be back on for Feb/March. I really don't think their promoters want to try and put that on without some sort of fan income. A lot of bull and kidology going on there now i reckon but that will push any AJ fight back even further.

So he'll defend against Usyk because there's money in that if they can get a crowd in obviously.  Got to get past another possible banana skin with Pulev first obviously.

[Silas]

Yeah, let's see how AJ does v Pulev. Depending on the performance I would maybe take Usyk for the win for a bit of fun.

I've just lost all confidence in AJ. Not because he got decked by Ruiz. Hey, it's heavyweight boxing, can happen to anyone. I don't subscribe to the fat mexican BS.

It's more AJ's mindset. He was fighting so scared in the rematch. And not just that, it's the interviews he's done since. I look in his eyes and I'm not sure he even has the same confidence in his abilities.  

I'm not a hater. I like the guy. Think most of the hate comes from jealousy of the astronomical sums of money he's earnt. That, and everyone loves seeing someone knocked off their pedestal.

If he looks good v Pulev and I see the confidence back, he may win me over. But a weak performance where he looks scared of getting hit, and I'll be starting to think he's never going to get a Champion's mindset back. 

[tomphil]

Very good observation on AJ i can go along with that iv'e thought similar that's why a Pulev fight is a tricky one. Especially when you look at what happened to Whyte.

All the going to the US and the Ruiz thing was imo down to brand AJ taking over as well as wanting to rush and do a number with Wilder watching in the wings.  He's making as much as he can whilst he can as is Fury but one goes wrestling whilst the other gets himself every endorsement and tv advert he can.  I also think not fighting regularly is more detrimental to him than the likes of Fury as his style needs building on rather than just sharpening up.

He's proved he can come in lighter and box cautiously easily going the distance but he seems to have lost that bit of edge that made him the brute he was.

Edited November 2, 2020 by tomphil

[tomphil]

Looks like it's Kabel for Fury how very predictable.

The other day he was 15th in WBC ranking. Probably in top 6 now 

Dosser.

[Dreams of 1995]

Anybody going to be staying up and watching the Tyson vs Jones fight?

Seriously considering it. One of my earliest memories of fighting when I was younger was the Tyson vs Lewis fight. I'd have been 9 years old but my old man let me stay awake with him to watch. It's the only time I have ever seen Tyson. Can't help but feel this fight will be a bit of a farce though, and the thought of watching 50+ year old men fight is a bit weird. I'll be honest it was that Tyson vs Lewis night - everything included, staying up late, the fight itself - that helped to make me fall in love with the art of boxing.

For that reason I will probably find myself getting a crate of beers in and watching it. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[Norbert Rassragr]

Dubois vs. Joyce is more relevant and will probably be better. I think that's on tonight as well.

[Gav]

Tyson was unbeatable in his early career, a colossus until the money came rolling in and he took his eye off the ball.

Roy Jones was also one of the best boxers to ever set foot in the ring, but that was at middle weight/Super middle.

Both are absolute legends, but this tonight is a bit of a freak show for me.

Tyson had little or no stamina at the end of his career in 2006, losing to 2 journeymen in Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride, he won’t have much in the tank after 2 rounds. Jones will sit back, soak up the Tyson attack and win on points, unless Tyson catches him, he will still carry some significant power.

I saw Hopkins fight Jones in Vegas a few years back, watched them at Mandalay Bay, that was a terrible fight, tonight will potentially be the same.

Ok ok I’ve bought it......being a boxing fan and to once again see 2 legends pull on the leather was a chance I couldn’t miss. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by Gav

[tomphil]

Really looking forward to the Dubois v Joyce fight you can't beat a good old all british tussle between 2 big punchers.  Genuine Brits as well these two so it's a bit unique.

Like the look of Dubois but this is a good step up and although he's a robot i wouldn't rule out Joyce the longer it goes.

Won't be bothering with the Tyson v Jones thing it's just an exhibition spar between 2 old ex pros nothing else. Can't believe the lather that's been going on about it although Tyson has always drawn the eyes of the world no matter what he does. Big fan of both but i agree with Gav it's unlikely he will be swinging after two rounds.  Jones was still beating club fighters a couple of years ago so he might stroll through this.

No knockouts, no ringside judges etc it really needs one of them to land big early on. Might get a few fireworks then otherwise i think there are going to be a lot of disappointed people. It was always just an exhibition for charity but the media and bookies have promoted like a world title eliminator !

[Silas]

17 hours ago, tomphil said:

Like the look of Dubois but this is a good step up and although he's a robot i wouldn't rule out Joyce the longer it goes.

Good call. Not many gave JJ a chance. 

[Gav]

Just watched the Tyson v Jones fight.

Tyson was much fitter than anyone expected, Jones showed fast hands at times but held on for most of the fight and who can blame him with those Tyson bombs coming at him.

Neither boxer disgraced themselves, flashes of the old magic at times, worth the £20.

Dubois gave up last night, I’ve not seen a boxer give up like that, it’s usually stopped by the corner or the ref. His corner questioned his attitude a round earlier, telling him ‘This is the fight game Daniel’ but it wasn’t enough to convince Dubois.

Serious questions over his attitude and desire.

[tomphil]

He was having his head rocked back from the off by Joyce jab. It wasn't going to get any better for him but agree it's not often you see a young hungry tiger give up.

The thing that gave me reservations about DD come from when he fought Johnson. He had a similar look on his face last night after a few rounds. An expression of I haven't knocked this guy out yet so what do I do next ?

Needs to be more boxer less head hunter. Have to say though it would have been worth ppv money to see Warren squirm at the end. I'd have happily paid for that I cannot stand the little weasel ?

[tomphil]

Broken eye socket by sounds of it for Dubois. That's a real bad one phycologicaly for a heavyweight given the bombs they always have to take.

Could be a game changer for him unless they are just putting it out to save a bit of face 

[Gav]

Just now, tomphil said:

Broken eye socket by sounds of it for Dubois. That's a real bad one phycologicaly for a heavyweight given the bombs they always have to take.

Could be a game changer for him unless they are just putting it out to save a bit of face 

That jab as you said earlier was superb from Joyce, he couldn't miss.

Sounds bad, its making my eyes water thinking about a broken eye socket, but he's a professional boxer and should have carried on in my opinion. 

But its easy saying that sat in the living room miles away from a boxing ring. 

[Silas]

5 hours ago, Gav said:

 His corner questioned his attitude a round earlier, telling him ‘This is the fight game Daniel’ 

 

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

He had a similar look on his face last night after a few rounds. An expression of I haven't knocked this guy out yet so what do I do next ?

Was even earlier I think Gav, from around Rd 5, that his corner seemed to be panicking.

That is way more worrying than taking the knee to get out the fight. If his eye was badly damaged then fair enough,  I don't blame him for taking the easy way out. He's young at 23 and potentially plenty more battles ahead. 

But it seemed from early on that he simply didn't like getting punched. Which is a slight issue for a boxer. I reckon the bloodied nose was troubling him too.

Looks like he can dish it out, but can't take it back. 

[tomphil]

Maybe that was his David Price moment that'll prove to be his undoing.

Good potential world level heavy ruined by recurring shattered confidence.

[RevidgeBlue]

On 29/11/2020 at 11:41, Gav said:

Just watched the Tyson v Jones fight.

Tyson was much fitter than anyone expected, Jones showed fast hands at times but held on for most of the fight and who can blame him with those Tyson bombs coming at him.

Neither boxer disgraced themselves, flashes of the old magic at times, worth the £20.

Dubois gave up last night, I’ve not seen a boxer give up like that, it’s usually stopped by the corner or the ref. His corner questioned his attitude a round earlier, telling him ‘This is the fight game Daniel’ but it wasn’t enough to convince Dubois.

Serious questions over his attitude and desire.

At the time I thought that that last jab must have caused some really really serous damage to his eye. He didn't just quit, because of a swollen and closed eye (although that would have been bad enough in itself for any normal mortal) and if the prognosis of a broken eye socket is correct then that confirms my thoughts at the time.

That said, whilst I didn't think his attitude was particularly in question, he didn't overly impress either, and showed the hype about him is a little premature.

 

[Gav]

Another Saturday night of boxing is ahead of us with the main event for me being Spence Jr v Garcia on Premier Sports overnight from Dallas. Both with superb records, two real classy fighters, looking forward to it.

Anthony Yarde v Lyndon Arthur is the main event domestically from Church House Westminster, with a decent undercard too, on BT Sports.