[Archived] Rovers Trust

[K-Hod]

Which clearly demonstrates the ridiculous levels of greed which now pervade the game. £94? Cup final price, nothing less. The root cause us Sky money, the stupidity of club owners, the PL executives and player greed. This must change.

Been saying for a while German football has everything spot on. Prices, standing areas, and full stadiums with great atmospheres.

[Baz]

Been saying for a while German football has everything spot on. Prices, standing areas, and full stadiums with great atmospheres.

The minus side is that despite a bigger population, they have only 2 leagues, the 3rd tier has only been professional sine 2006, and contains many reserve teams of the top sides.

To match that, theres a lot of historic professional clubs in the UK that would have to go to the wall.

Fairer ticket prices, greater fan ownership, and safe standing areas I do agree with.

[Stuart]

The minus side is that despite a bigger population, they have only 2 leagues, the 3rd tier has only been professional sine 2006, and contains many reserve teams of the top sides.

To match that, theres a lot of historic professional clubs in the UK that would have to go to the wall.

Fairer ticket prices, greater fan ownership, and safe standing areas I do agree with.

I'm glad someone else spotted this.

[cn174]

Also it will be interesting to see how they go in Germany. Sky now have monopoly on bundesliga and 2.bundesliga games and are trying to exercise some power. they were partially behind the motion to have less away fans at grounds (5% only) presumably so the others will watch on tv instead.

[Amo]

I'm glad someone else spotted this.

More fans for us?

[Stuart]

Also it will be interesting to see how they go in Germany. Sky now have monopoly on bundesliga and 2.bundesliga games and are trying to exercise some power. they were partially behind the motion to have less away fans at grounds (5% only) presumably so the others will watch on tv instead.

That's disgusting. More fool the Bundesliga for entering into such an agreement though.

More fans for us?

Assuming we aren't one of the ones that go to he wall, it will be a couple if generations before the tribalism affect is no longer a factor.

The are Rovers fans who won't attend Rovers matches, why would a current Bumley, Preston or Stanley fan switch?

[perthblue02]

That's disgusting. More fool the Bundesliga for entering into such an agreement though.

Assuming we aren't one of the ones that go to he wall, it will be a couple if generations before the tribalism affect is no longer a factor.

The are Rovers fans who won't attend Rovers matches, why would a current Bumley, Preston or Stanley fan switch?

For money,power, and self preservation of course with the bonus of a chance to @#/? up a rival club from within ? Problem is they won't buy tickets they just get appointed to the board and get free ones

It's a good point you made though, there is nothing to suggest that we will not be the ones who would be semi pro in league 3, Nobend seem to have stabilised since Shaw left, Blackpool are well placed for the financial fair play thingy (but that could change if Oyston wants a new development or something) although it pains me Burnley seem to be cutting their cloth accordingly, whilst we are throwing money on Premier League has been's on long contracts and funding just like a family member lifestyles, reliant on financing from the mortgage on a few fields in India brought about by two years of inept management .

But on the plus side we are not Bolton

[K-Hod]

The minus side is that despite a bigger population, they have only 2 leagues, the 3rd tier has only been professional sine 2006, and contains many reserve teams of the top sides.

To match that, theres a lot of historic professional clubs in the UK that would have to go to the wall.

Fairer ticket prices, greater fan ownership, and safe standing areas I do agree with.

Not saying it's perfect, as I didn't know the whole story, but there are certainly lessons to be learned from German football!!

[mhead]

Far too many Clubs outside Manchester/Liverpool. We need a consolidated Club that can build loyalty over the next 15 to 20 years. None of us are going anywhere.Discussions need to be held between pairs of Clubs. Just a matter of time.

[Baz]

Far too many Clubs outside Manchester/Liverpool. We need a consolidated Club that can build loyalty over the next 15 to 20 years. None of us are going anywhere.Discussions need to be held between pairs of Clubs. Just a matter of time.

Can you imagine trying to merge Rovers, Burnley, Stanley, Preston, Bolton, Blackpool, Fleetwood, Wigan and Morecambe (or even a combination)?

Where do you even start?

As a starter, where would the ground be?

[Stuart]

Far too many Clubs outside Manchester/Liverpool. We need a consolidated Club that can build loyalty over the next 15 to 20 years. None of us are going anywhere.Discussions need to be held between pairs of Clubs. Just a matter of time.

You realise you are talking about Lancs Utd.

Who would you suggest Rovers pair with and where would they play?

EDIT: what Baz said.

[Baz]

Not saying it's perfect, as I didn't know the whole story, but there are certainly lessons to be learned from German football!!

There are, but detail begins to separate the workable ideas from the ones that wont.

[Stuart]

The best thing that could happen to English football would be that the top 4 in the PL disappear off to a franchised* European Super League (ESL), dissolve the self-serving PL, and the Football League take back over the rest and bring back a proper first division. 4 teams from the Championship replace them and we have the top two divisions with 20 teams each. Maybe allow the 4 ESL teams compete in the FA cup. Maybe.

*No matter which way I cut it, I can't find a way to make relegation from and promotion to the ESL so the franchised lock out is the only way.

[darrenrover]

The best thing that could happen to English football would be that the top 4 in the PL disappear off to a franchised* European Super League (ESL), dissolve the self-serving PL, and the Football League take back over the rest and bring back a proper first division. 4 teams from the Championship replace them and we have the top two divisions with 20 teams each. Maybe allow the 4 ESL teams compete in the FA cup. Maybe.

*No matter which way I cut it, I can't find a way to make relegation from and promotion to the ESL so the franchised lock out is the only way.

Agreed in general, for the good of the competitive game and it's general attractiveness to football supporters, the structure of the game needs re-inventing in England.

Unfortunately, the true supporters, who are their Clubs heritage, have increasingly less influence or importance.

Who would the big 4 be though?

United, City, Spurs, Chelsea, ? Can't see Liverpool, Everton or Arsenal endorsing that somehow.

[perthblue02]

The best thing that could happen to English football would be that the top 4 in the PL disappear off to a franchised* European Super League (ESL), dissolve the self-serving PL, and the Football League take back over the rest and bring back a proper first division. 4 teams from the Championship replace them and we have the top two divisions with 20 teams each. Maybe allow the 4 ESL teams compete in the FA cup. Maybe.

*No matter which way I cut it, I can't find a way to make relegation from and promotion to the ESL so the franchised lock out is the only way.

European super league will be under the authority of UEFA so ultimately under FIFA so the promotion and relegation issues will be solved like the majority of FIFA decisions

[Baz]

Agreed in general, for the good of the competitive game and it's general attractiveness to football supporters, the structure of the game needs re-inventing in England.

Unfortunately, the true supporters, who are their Clubs heritage, have increasingly less influence or importance.

Who would the big 4 be though?

United, City, Spurs, Chelsea, ? Can't see Liverpool, Everton or Arsenal endorsing that somehow.

Personally i find a european super league repellant. I dont like the "champions" league, until the knock out stages as there are too many dead rubbers and too many walkovers.

Even as one the chosen clubs, would their (non tv) fans be happier playing Wigan away, or Cluj? With no relegation, it would make at least 1/2 the games dead rubbers, which would see the league boring and financially cripple it quickly. Evening up the current status quo would be better, doing it is much harder, but thats the best idea.

[Stuart]

Agreed in general, for the good of the competitive game and it's general attractiveness to football supporters, the structure of the game needs re-inventing in England.

Unfortunately, the true supporters, who are their Clubs heritage, have increasingly less influence or importance.

Who would the big 4 be though?

United, City, Spurs, Chelsea, ? Can't see Liverpool, Everton or Arsenal endorsing that somehow.

For obvious reasons the four would be those who could afford to buy into the franchise - ruling out Everton and probably Spurs and Arsenal.

The ordinary fans would lose out because of the travel to away games but many could pick and choose since they'd have the certainly of the same venues each year. Possibly roll it into a holiday.

It would be a complete cultural change for those fans but the trade off is the glamour of the opposition and probably tv season ticket packages for away games. After all this would be a television/advertiser driven league.

[yoda]

Personally i find a european super league repellant. I dont like the "champions" league, until the knock out stages as there are too many dead rubbers and too many walkovers.

Even as one the chosen clubs, would their (non tv) fans be happier playing Wigan away, or Cluj? With no relegation, it would make at least 1/2 the games dead rubbers, which would see the league boring and financially cripple it quickly. Evening up the current status quo would be better, doing it is much harder, but thats the best idea.

For obvious reasons the four would be those who could afford to buy into the franchise - ruling out Everton and probably Spurs and Arsenal.

The ordinary fans would lose out because of the travel to away games but many could pick and choose since they'd have the certainly of the same venues each year. Possibly roll it into a holiday.

It would be a complete cultural change for those fans but the trade off is the glamour of the opposition and probably tv season ticket packages for away games. After all this would be a television/advertiser driven league.

It would be the final nail in the coffin of football as regards a game rooted in the community

[Stuart]

Personally i find a european super league repellant. I dont like the "champions" league, until the knock out stages as there are too many dead rubbers and too many walkovers.

Even as one the chosen clubs, would their (non tv) fans be happier playing Wigan away, or Cluj? With no relegation, it would make at least 1/2 the games dead rubbers, which would see the league boring and financially cripple it quickly. Evening up the current status quo would be better, doing it is much harder, but thats the best idea.

It's a complete culture change. The prawn sandwich brigade are gonna love it.

As far as no relegation making for stale games, I don't see too many complaints from our American sports cousins. There's something about the certainty, the rivalry. Maybe they could even introduce a draft system where players go to the lower ranked teams.

The world is a small place and getting smaller.

It's not beyond the realms but I understand that people don't like change.

I find it repellant or repulsive that the current major European 'competition' makes the rich clubs richer and allows them to monopolise their domestic leagues more than ever before. Jettisoning them would be... a release.

It would be the final nail in the coffin of football as regards a game rooted in the community

Only for those 4 teams who have been jettisoned. The rest of us get the benefit of minimal (possibly even - perish the thought - terrestrial) tv coverage and encourage more people to actually GO to football matches. Increasing the community focal point.

[yoda]

It's a complete culture change. The prawn sandwich brigade are gonna love it.

As far as no relegation making for stale games, I don't see too many complaints from our American sports cousins. There's something about the certainty, the rivalry. Maybe they could even introduce a draft system where players go to the lower ranked teams.

The world is a small place and getting smaller.

It's not beyond the realms but I understand that people don't like change.

I find it repellant or repulsive that the current major European 'competition' makes the rich clubs richer and allows them to monopolise their domestic leagues more than ever before. Jettisoning them would be... a release.

Only for those 4 teams who have been jettisoned. The rest of us get the benefit of minimal (possibly even - perish the thought - terrestrial) tv coverage and encourage more people to actually GO to football matches. Increasing the community focal point.

can't see that happening when you have devalued the league competition

[Stuart]

can't see that happening when you have devalued the league competition

How have I devalued it. I've just made it more competitive.

If people want to watch the "Top 4" then they either watch games on TV or pay the massive fees to watch Barca, Milan, etc.

It takes nothing away from League One and Two teams and about half of the Championship,

The top half of the Championship (2nd division) and First Division get to compete on a much more level playing field than currently,

If anything this complements the idea of the financial fair play system and should encourage more fans and potentially encourage more trusts to get involved in clubs - because the money required to win the league won't be completely out if reach. It'll still be a meritocracy in the sense that clubs with larger fan bases will prosper but isn't that how it should be?

[darrenrover]

How have I devalued it. I've just made it more competitive.

If people want to watch the "Top 4" then they either watch games on TV or pay the massive fees to watch Barca, Milan, etc.

It takes nothing away from League One and Two teams and about half of the Championship,

The top half of the Championship (2nd division) and First Division get to compete on a much more level playing field than currently,

If anything this complements the idea of the financial fair play system and should encourage more fans and potentially encourage more trusts to get involved in clubs - because the money required to win the league won't be completely out if reach. It'll still be a meritocracy in the sense that clubs with larger fan bases will prosper but isn't that how it should be?

I understand the rationale and it would be much more competitive.

I think it would financially devalue the league though because it would not attract the worldwide TV audiences and therefore the vast revenues would significantly be reduced.

It's a dilemma because unless something changes, interest will wain. I think The Premier League will also be anxiously looking over their shoulder at The Bundesliga currently. Perhaps their model is the way to go?

[yoda]

I understand the rationale and it would be much more competitive.

I think it would financially devalue the league though because it would not attract the worldwide TV audiences and therefore the vast revenues would significantly be reduced.

It's a dilemma because unless something changes, interest will wain. I think The Premier League will also be anxiously looking over their shoulder at The Bundesliga currently. Perhaps their model is the way to go?

good points, you have to ask why is it so important for Rovers (and other) supporters to want us back in the PL, finance for one but also to play the top teams, if the top teams are no longer there, as darrenrover points out, the interest will disappear as there is no way to get to the top table anymore

[Baz]

Redistribution of the wealth within the footballing structure is the way to encourage changing of the monopoly, i.e. like the pre-premier league days, where funds were fed much more down the pyramid. It aint gonna happen, as turkeys wouldnt vote for christmas. Another idea would be to also allow newly promoted teams a no-relegation period, say 2 seasons and evening out the prize money so theres little difference between finishing top and bottom. That would allow a greater certainty for those clubs to grow their team, and change up the mix in the EPL a bit more.

I dont disagree letting the big 4 teams to go, but they want the best of both worlds like they currently have, so again I cant see it happening.it would also leave the EPL a 2nd rate competition.

[Stuart]

I understand the rationale and it would be much more competitive.

I think it would financially devalue the league though because it would not attract the worldwide TV audiences and therefore the vast revenues would significantly be reduced.

It's a dilemma because unless something changes, interest will wain. I think The Premier League will also be anxiously looking over their shoulder at The Bundesliga currently. Perhaps their model is the way to go?

But the if the league loses revenue, so what? It means every team loses revenue so player wages will have to drop. The net result will be foreign players who are here for the big bucks go elsewhere - or they accept reduced wages.

Whatever happens the will still be plenty of lads who simply want to play football and those lads will accept less money. But it will be the same for all clubs so we go back to largely local lads playing for their clubs. As fans are able to identify more with the players and the team people you'd expect the interest in football as a sport rather than a business (as well as local pride) to return.

The only downside I can see is the potential for players to be poorer after short playing careers but I'm not sure tere is a middle ground between multimillionaires and blokes who have to work to keep up their income after playing. That part needs a bit more thought.

As far as the Bundesliga model, that's what kicked this debate off. If we go down that road, we need to lose about half of the current 96 league teams and hope that fans of those deceased club will gravitate towards another local club - and not just watch the nearest Champions League team on TV. But would you go to watch Burnley if Rovers, Stanley and Preston went to the wall. I wouldn't, but my grand children might.