[Archived] Rovers Trust

[Stuart]

What's wrong with the Official Community Club?

Which one is that?

[Blue n White Rover]

Which one is that?

http://www.brfctrust.co.uk/Community/

[Stuart]

http://www.brfctrust.co.uk/Community/

Thanks. I can't find the section on there where people can ask these guys to put questions to the club on behalf of the fans about matters relating to the running of the club.

Can you provide a link?

[darrenrover]

You are more than welcome to your opinion, but you are terribly misinformed, The BRFCAG have never had any interest in owning, taking over or running the club. We are a free membership community supporters group.

PK, genuine question.

I thought I understood what BRAG were all about, it was about ridding the club of Kean and his above and below entourage. If that assumption is wrong, then I stand corrected. If that was the case then I guess it's mission accomplished long since, what now if anything?

I'm not knocking anyone by the way, far from it, I'm just curious as to what the motivation is these days or have they called it a day?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Well done to all!

Ewood Park is a famous old ground that has hosted England International fixtures,FA Cup Semi finals and even a War time Cup final replay.

[Stuart]

PK, genuine question.

I thought I understood what BRAG were all about, it was about ridding the club of Kean and his above and below entourage. If that assumption is wrong, then I stand corrected. If that was the case then I guess it's mission accomplished long since, what now if anything?

I'm not knocking anyone by the way, far from it, I'm just curious as to what the motivation is these days or have they called it a day?

There was a whole thread about exactly this months ago. Are the Action Group going to be asked this question twice a year now?

[pk1875]

PK, genuine question.

I thought I understood what BRAG were all about, it was about ridding the club of Kean and his above and below entourage. If that assumption is wrong, then I stand corrected. If that was the case then I guess it's mission accomplished long since, what now if anything?

I'm not knocking anyone by the way, far from it, I'm just curious as to what the motivation is these days or have they called it a day?

When you refer to BRAG I presume you mean BRFCAG which is Blackburn Rovers Football Community Action Group. Yes we along with most supporters wanted rid of Kean and he has gone. To say that was the sole aim of the group though is wrong, we now have a supporters group that does some great work in the community ( I won't go into to much detail as I believe we have an upcoming podcast ). The groups original objectives for a well run football club that the whole community can be proud of still stand and I hope always will, whoever owns the club.

I also think it is unfair on the Trust to see their achievement taken way off topic on here.

[darrenrover]

Well done to all!

Ewood Park is a famous old ground that has hosted England International fixtures,FA Cup Semi finals and even a War time Cup final replay.

You're right SG but if the unthinkable demise of BRFC were to happen, I can't see a liquidator debating too long over whether to lease Ewood to Darwen, Chorley, BRFC Trust or Lancashire United as opposed to bulldozing it and selling it to the likes of Persimon for affordable housing.

Unlikely I hope but reality nonetheless.

That said, it's a great bit of foresight by The Trust, as all have said previously, hats off to a great achievement.

When you refer to BRAG I presume you mean BRFCAG which is Blackburn Rovers Football Community Action Group. Yes we along with most supporters wanted rid of Kean and he has gone. To say that was the sole aim of the group though is wrong, we now have a supporters group that does some great work in the community ( I won't go into to much detail as I believe we have an upcoming podcast ). The groups original objectives for a well run football club that the whole community can be proud of still stand and I hope always will, whoever owns the club.

Thanks PK, I'm sure I'm not alone in my confusion!

If it's in the genuine best interests of BRFC, the community and supporters, then I wish you the best of luck.

[mark1875]

So rather than this be met with the relief and the thanks that it deserves to be, it is being met with "why didn't the other group do this?".....wow.

This is a trend which trust models are following, working closely with Supporters Direct in order to ensure that we don't suddenly find ourselves homeless, and that in the event the owners decide suddenly to begin stripping our assets, then a trust model associated to the club is granted six months in order to raise funds to place a bid to ensure it remains owned with community interest, however there is no obligation for any owner to accept a bid of this nature (I could be wrong on that last one however??).

These listings have been placed on pubs, social clubs etc in communities for some time now and it is something which the group discussed with the Spirit of Shankly in Liverpool 12 months ago. However the group has never held the remit of owning the football club, any of the clubs assets or seeking a place within the boardroom and is a different concept to the models who are applying for these to be put into place. As a supporters group who charges not a single penny to its members, and ensures tens of thousands of pounds are given out to support community events, charities and other causes, the BRFC Action Group could never guarantee to be able to purchase Ewood Park in the event it did become something our owners (present or future) opted to sell.....the group doesn't have pledges of £3-4 million pounds for this or other scenarios which would include purchasing part of Blackburn Rovers.

The remit of a supporters group and a supporters trust are very different, both seek properly run football clubs, however each structure is set out differently in how they want that to happen and how they are able to make that happen.

But again, this should be about what a fantastic move this is by the guys at the trust, something many trusts have now done under supporters direct advice, and something many more trusts up and down the country should and hopefully will also do, a football stadium is part of supporters identity and is a massive part of the community, so lets sleep well in the knowledge that should the owners opt to sell it, we might be able to bid for it and they may choose to sell it to us, that's more than we had last week.

Well done guys.

[TBTF]

BRFC Action Group have a very different purpose and remit to the Trust.

Before this turns into the ineviatble bitch fest on this MB firstly well done to The Trust-good days work that may prove helpful down the track if sh1t happens.Secondly , and i have possibly been a biggish critic of BRAG in the past, can we all remember that BRAG put their own heads above the parapet at their own time and cost because they are Rovers fans who in their own way were doing the best thing they could in the interests of the Club.

Whether we all agree with how everybody is choosing to view/tackle these issues is obviously open to debate i dont think we should lose sight of the fact that these are all genuine fans of the Club trying to do what they think is right.

If we hadnt been sold down the river and picked up by these morons in Pune none of these groups would have had to do what they have chosen to do.

It might be fanciful but one day in the future when these idiots have gone it would be nice to think that the Groups who genuinely have the Clubs interests at heart can at least have some voice that represents the fans.

Lets not start slaughtering our own troops FFS-we are a dwindling number at the best of times in the face of idiotic ownership.

Not meant to be a provocative post-just lets have a sense of perspective please.We are all Rovers fans who care , aren't we???

[darrenrover]

Before this turns into the ineviatble bitch fest on this MB firstly well done to The Trust-good days work that may prove helpful down the track if sh1t happens.Secondly , and i have possibly been a biggish critic of BRAG in the past, can we all remember that BRAG put their own heads above the parapet at their own time and cost because they are Rovers fans who in their own way were doing the best thing they could in the interests of the Club.

Whether we all agree with how everybody is choosing to view/tackle these issues is obviously open to debate i dont think we should lose sight of the fact that these are all genuine fans of the Club trying to do what they think is right.

If we hadnt been sold down the river and picked up by these morons in Pune none of these groups would have had to do what they have chosen to do.

It might be fanciful but one day in the future when these idiots have gone it would be nice to think that the Groups who genuinely have the Clubs interests at heart can at least have some voice that represents the fans.

Lets not start slaughtering our own troops FFS-we are a dwindling number at the best of times in the face of idiotic ownership.

Not meant to be a provocative post-just lets have a sense of perspective please.We are all Rovers fans who care , aren't we???

Before this turns into the ineviatble bitch fest on this MB firstly well done to The Trust-good days work that may prove helpful down the track if sh1t happens.Secondly , and i have possibly been a biggish critic of BRAG in the past, can we all remember that BRAG put their own heads above the parapet at their own time and cost because they are Rovers fans who in their own way were doing the best thing they could in the interests of the Club.

Whether we all agree with how everybody is choosing to view/tackle these issues is obviously open to debate i dont think we should lose sight of the fact that these are all genuine fans of the Club trying to do what they think is right.

If we hadnt been sold down the river and picked up by these morons in Pune none of these groups would have had to do what they have chosen to do.

It might be fanciful but one day in the future when these idiots have gone it would be nice to think that the Groups who genuinely have the Clubs interests at heart can at least have some voice that represents the fans.

Lets not start slaughtering our own troops FFS-we are a dwindling number at the best of times in the face of idiotic ownership.

Not meant to be a provocative post-just lets have a sense of perspective please.We are all Rovers fans who care , aren't we???

I've got to say TBTF, I'm in total agreement with you.

[pk1875]

Amen to that,

[Blue n White Rover]

Thanks. I can't find the section on there where people can ask these guys to put questions to the club on behalf of the fans about matters relating to the running of the club.

Can you provide a link?

Just out at the minute Stuart. However, Blackburn Rovers have a Fans Forum that do just that. They also have a brilliant new website where they post minutes and if I remember correctly, John Wareing was part of it and was/is doing an excellent job.

[Paul]

I also think it is unfair on the Trust to see their achievement taken way off topic on here.

Thanks Paul and Mark.

It would be good if this could stay on topic as it's an important move for the fans and the town.

Perhaps a discussion on BRFCAG's current and future plans would be better discussed on another thread to avoid losing the point of this one?

[darrenrover]

There was a whole thread about exactly this months ago. Are the Action Group going to be asked this question twice a year now?

I must have missed the thread Stuart, you know how it is. From my personal perspective, it was a genuine question to which I've now received an answer.

Surely it's the purpose of this MB to enable questions and answers Rovers related is it not? irrespective of how contentious or tedious it may be to others.

[Stuart]

I must have missed the thread Stuart, you know how it is. From my personal perspective, it was a genuine question to which I've now received an answer.

Surely it's the purpose of this MB to enable questions and answers Rovers related is it not? irrespective of how contentious or tedious it may be to others.

If I can find the thread I'll post a link. You might be surprised by the OP and recognise the premise of the thread. If you hang around the mb long enough you start to see the same debates pop up on a regular basis.

EDIT: can't believe it was in January...

http://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php/topic/28429-has-brag-served-its-purpose/

[darrenrover]

If I can find the thread I'll post a link. You might be surprised by the OP and recognise the premise of the thread. If you hang around the mb long enough you start to see the same debates pop up on a regular basis.

EDIT: can't believe it was in January...http://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php/topic/28429-has-brag-served-its-purpose/

Thanks, Zebedy boing! I'm still non the wiser tbh but Mark and PK have dealt with my questions as best they could.

Best we all move on together. Onwards and upwards!

[Paul]

You're right SG but if the unthinkable demise of BRFC were to happen, I can't see a liquidator debating too long over whether to lease Ewood to Darwen, Chorley, BRFC Trust or Lancashire United as opposed to bulldozing it and selling it to the likes of Persimon for affordable housing.

Unlikely I hope but reality nonetheless.

That said, it's a great bit of foresight by The Trust, as all have said previously, hats off to a great achievement..

First thanks for the compliment and second to the point raised first.

If a liquidator attempted to dispose of Ewood there is a legal obligation to allow the Trust six months to prepare a bid. This is the law and a liquidator has no special exceptions.

Crucially the ACV may influence the local planners view on potential development. To build on Ewood would require approved change of use. It could be the planning authority takes the view the ACV status indicates it would not be appropriate to give planning permission for housing, supermarkets etc.

If that were the case the ground's value would reflect the legally permitted use. If that use is professional football Persimmon et al will not be interested.

If the permitted use is only football related the ground's value alters significantly which would help the community and Trust in any attempt to buy it. In the case of liquidation I believe the liquidator is obliged to accept the highest offer which is more likely to come from parties interested in professional football.

[Stuart]

Really good news this Paul. Well done with all your hard work.

[Baz]

Does this stop the owners using the ground as security against borrowing? Or just give the trust 6 months to make a bid?

Does it also give the trust an advantage in a bidding process i.e. preferred bidder, or do the owners still have the option to sell to whom they want regardless?

(Well done to all concerned too).

[Mike E]

Does this stop the owners using the ground as security against borrowing? Or just give the trust 6 months to make a bid?

Does it also give the trust an advantage in a bidding process i.e. preferred bidder, or do the owners still have the option to sell to whom they want regardless?

(Well done to all concerned too).

I believe the obligation (with an ACV) is to sell to the highest bidder.

[Paul]

Does this stop the owners using the ground as security against borrowing? Or just give the trust 6 months to make a bid?

Does it also give the trust an advantage in a bidding process i.e. preferred bidder, or do the owners still have the option to sell to whom they want regardless?

(Well done to all concerned too).

How an owner uses the ground as security or whatever is not influenced by the ACV.

Were the ground to be offered for sale the following happens:

The owners are legally obliged to inform the local authority

The authority informs the Trust

Rovers Trust then has six weeks to confirm it wishes to bid or not. We then would have a further 20 weeks to prepare and submit a bid - and raise the cash!

During this period the ground cannot be sold

There is no preferred bidder status. At the end of the process the owners could sell to whoever they wish. The ACV has no influence on this.

For me the key points surrounding the ACV are these:

The community, via the Trust, will have the opportunity to bid for Ewood. The town would have a real tangible target to focus on in terms of gaining club ownership

The ground's importance to the town has been legally established. This may influence how local planners view its future use which in turn can influence the value.

We cannot wake up tomorrow to discover Ewood has been sold without anyone being aware of the deal.

[Paul]

I believe the obligation (with an ACV) is to sell to the highest bidder.

Sorry missed this post. The ACV does not oblige the owners to sell to the highest bidder. The owners can sell to whoever they wish.

[bob fleming]

Absolutely superb work Paul in obtaining this. Thank you.

[Stuart]

Sorry missed this post. The ACV does not oblige the owners to sell to the highest bidder. The owners can sell to whoever they wish.

If it was a straight choice between selling to a party who wanted to keep Ewood Park as a sports stadium (ideally for the purpose of a Blackburn Rovers team) or selling to Tesco to level the land and build a supermarket, would the ACV swing it in favour of the former over the latter?

After all Tesco would argue the provide value to the community.

Is this more as a safeguard in case an administrator is selling off assets rather than Venkys looking to cock their leg up against the fans again?