[Archived] Rovers Trust

[Ozz]

I guess it would come down whether the Council would be likely to grant planning permission for any proposed future use.

Another offshoot of the granting an ACV is that if the whole club is put up for sale, which presumably would include Ewood Park as it is a major asset, then it could not be done behind our backs now.

[Stuart]

That's definitely a plus Ozz.

[Paul]

If it was a straight choice between selling to a party who wanted to keep Ewood Park as a sports stadium (ideally for the purpose of a Blackburn Rovers team) or selling to Tesco to level the land and build a supermarket, would the ACV swing it in favour of the former over the latter?

After all Tesco would argue the provide value to the community.

Is this more as a safeguard in case an administrator is selling off assets rather than Venkys looking to cock their leg up against the fans again?

If every little helps I guess Tesco do bring value to the community, they have three stores in the Blackburn area including one on LBR! I don't feel we can predict how this would go Stuart. To build anything other than a football stadium requires "change of use" planning permission, or so I'm lead to believe. I would hope the planners would consider the 131 year history of football at Ewood was a greater value to the community than yet another supermarket. On the other hand a social housing development might be considered more beneficial to the community? But then who wants to build social housing? A question, not a political statement.

I think the key point is this; the ACV gives us the bets chance yet to protect Ewood. The community HAVE to be given a chance to bid, the planners may be persuaded to question a planning application and so on. As Ozz says if the club as a whole was to be sold what happens then? Interesting question.

The ACV may not be the answer but it gives us the best chance which is why it is probably the Trust's most significant step to date.

[AggyBlue]

So could the trust end up being offered the stadium but with the football club being sold to someone else?

[Paul]

I don't know! I've asked Supporters Direct for an answer on that one

[yoda]

I guess it would come down whether the Council would be likely to grant planning permission for any proposed future use.

Another offshoot of the granting an ACV is that if the whole club is put up for sale, which presumably would include Ewood Park as it is a major asset, then it could not be done behind our backs now.

In the event of a sale (whole or otherwise) is Ewood the major asset ?, I think Brockhall has far more potential value due to its location, can a separate AVC be obtained for Brockhall?

[Ozz]

It is an issue we have looked into, but it would be far more difficult to make the case that it has a community value.

[92er]

If every little helps I guess Tesco do bring value to the community, they have three stores in the Blackburn area including one on LBR

They must currently have 4 as they also have one on Preston Old Road, one on Whalley New Road, the main one on Hill Street and the one you mentioned.

They also have one in the Town Centre, but I believe that is due to close soon.

[Baz]

Another offshoot of the granting an ACV is that if the whole club is put up for sale, which presumably would include Ewood Park as it is a major asset, then it could not be done behind our backs now.

Are you 100% sure on this Oz? I see this as the key plus of having the ACV.

Also, is there any way in which the ACV could be granted against the club as a whole (as opposed to the ground), as that really is the asset i.e. no point owning the ground, if the club isn't there any more.

[Paul]

So could the trust end up being offered the stadium but with the football club being sold to someone else?

This I think covers your point Aggy and similar ones raised by others who wondered if the club were to be sold does the ground automatically go with it. The quote below is straight from Supporters Direct:

Just spoke with the lead Civil Servant in the Department for Communities & Local Government who says that, my opinion below is right, the stadium is listed and each element of a sale of the club and assets as a package will have separate elements which would be sold according to the law in that area such as the commercial rights, intellectual property etc. The stadium is real estate and the person doing the conveyancing work will have to supply a certificate that the land cannot be sold without the community group who listed the ACV being advised in accordance with the Localism Act. Any disposal of an asset which has been listed by a local authority has to comply with the Act. The Venky’s cannot therefore sell the stadium without notifying the council who would notify you.

In other words if the club goes up for sale we, the community, the fans would get an opportunity to bid for the ground.

Hope that helps.......................

[perthblue02]

Thanks for the updates, hopefully its a good safeguard.

[trueblue]

Does the ACV cover the training ground and academy also?

[Paul]

Does the ACV cover the training ground and academy also?

No. The ACV covers the area which we would all recognise as the "old" Ewood Park. One of the most crucial aspects of the ACV nomination was to be 100% accurate with the definition of the land and/or buildings. I felt it very important to use the same scale of map/plan as that used by the Land Registry which is 1:1250. There is no plan of Ewood at the Land Registry - that's not unusual - and so defining the ground area and the land it stands on fell to me. I therefore chose the area most recently mapped and named by the Ordnance Survery but excluded Roverstore as though this stands within the boundaries over Ewood Park it isn't actually a part of the ground - and it's a separately registered property with the Land Registry. It's hard to argue with an OS map!!

Finding the maps and being sure of the definition caused me more worry than any other aspect of the nomination. Probably 95% of the submission is effectively opinion which must be backed up by reasoned argument, the factual aspect is identifying the building and a few other bits and pieces correctly.

[sibarnes66]

AGM Reminder!!!!

To all members the Rovers Trust Annual General Meeting (AGM) is next Monday (21st October) at 7pm - the venue is Darwen AFC on Anchor Road. We going to go through what we've done this year, the plans and strategy for next year and hopefully announce a new appeal.

If you would like to attend then please email me (Secretary) at Simon.Barnes@roverstrust,co.uk.

ALSO members can view it online by logging into the Rovers Trust web site and then going to this link http://www.roverstrust.com/2013/10/04/rovers-trust-agm-live-streaming/

[sibarnes66]

if you don't know your membership login or password - then use the password reset on the web site

[pk1875]

This I think covers your point Aggy and similar ones raised by others who wondered if the club were to be sold does the ground automatically go with it. The quote below is straight from Supporters Direct:

Just spoke with the lead Civil Servant in the Department for Communities & Local Government who says that, my opinion below is right, the stadium is listed and each element of a sale of the club and assets as a package will have separate elements which would be sold according to the law in that area such as the commercial rights, intellectual property etc. The stadium is real estate and the person doing the conveyancing work will have to supply a certificate that the land cannot be sold without the community group who listed the ACV being advised in accordance with the Localism Act. Any disposal of an asset which has been listed by a local authority has to comply with the Act. The Venky’s cannot therefore sell the stadium without notifying the council who would notify you.

In other words if the club goes up for sale we, the community, the fans would get an opportunity to bid for the ground.

Hope that helps.......................

I'm a tad confused now, Just say a mega wealthy business man decided he wanted to take a gamble on Blackburn Rovers, could the sale be delayed by 6 months because of the ACV?

[Ozz]

Yes it could.

[pk1875]

My understanding was like pubs and other venues of community value they cannot be sold for use of other purposes inside those six months....but can be sold for the intended original use. Maybe I misunderstood this?

So could this potentially block other bidders who may have the right resources and intentions?

[thenonda]

My understanding was like pubs and other venues of community value they cannot be sold for use of other purposes inside those six months....but can be sold for the intended original use. Maybe I misunderstood this?

So could this potentially block other bidders who may have the right resources and intentions?

that is my understanding as well. The club and its assets can be sold to continue trading as a professional football club because the oqner of ewood is blackburn rovers football club and selling the club wouldn't change that (just different shareholders).

If venkys tried to sell ewood on its own to another person/company ACV would kick in.

Also there is nothing to stop venkys bulldozing the site tomorrow should they wish.

worrying if thats not the case and the clubs sale will always be delayed.

[Paul]

I'm a tad confused now, Just say a mega wealthy business man decided he wanted to take a gamble on Blackburn Rovers, could the sale be delayed by 6 months because of the ACV?

I can't see why anyone should be confused as I have posted the information earlier. I'll nip this in the bud before it becomes a rumour and then the truth!!! (joke).

The process under the Community Right to Bid is this;

1. The ground is registered as an ACV and should it be offered for sale the local authority must be informed who will in turn inform the Trust. This is a legal requirement.
2. At this point a two stage process begins involving the intent to bid and the actual bid as below:
3. The Trust must within six weeks declare it's intention OR otherwise to bid
4. If the Trust decides to bid the ground cannot be sold for twenty weeks following the six weeks - 26 weeks or 6 months in total
5. During this period the Trust has the opportunity to prepare and submit a bid
6. Once a bid has been lodged the owners can chose to accept or ignore it

So yes the protection offered by the ACV can prevent the sale of the ground for 6 months BUT there is no obligation on the Trust to make a bid. The legal obligation is for the Trust to be given the choice. This is a crucial difference if a highly successful white knight rode into town the Trust can decline the opportunity to bid. That might take a short time, the Trust might want to talk with the potential new owner, and after those discussions the Trust could decide not to bid.

On the other hand if the devil incarnate comes over the hill from the Burnley direction, yes, the sale could be on hold for six months.

The Trust's interest is the best interests of Blackburn Rovers. If a new owner is good for the club the Trust would not stand in the way, we would look for a share, but not allow a bid to fail by being obtuse. On the other hand the ACV gives the protection the club needs if a potentially harmful buyer comes along.

[Paul]

My understanding was like pubs and other venues of community value they cannot be sold for use of other purposes inside those six months....but can be sold for the intended original use. Maybe I misunderstood this?

So could this potentially block other bidders who may have the right resources and intentions?

that is my understanding as well. The club and its assets can be sold to continue trading as a professional football club because the oqner of ewood is blackburn rovers football club and selling the club wouldn't change that (just different shareholders).

If venkys tried to sell ewood on its own to another person/company ACV would kick in.

Also there is nothing to stop venkys bulldozing the site tomorrow should they wish.

worrying if thats not the case and the clubs sale will always be delayed.

Having spent weeks reading, asking questions and being given a clear understanding of the Localism Act I can assure everyone the ACV listing provides the Community Right to Bid under all circumstances. The comments above regarding continuing to trade as a football club are incorrect.

As for the two further comments re delaying a potential sale to a white knight I hope that is covered above. The ACV provides the protection Ewood needs AND it provides the community, town, fans with a CHOICE to refuse the right to buy or to proceed with it.

.......and while i'm about it. Attached to this post is a copy of the submission made to BwD. It's a PDF please feel free to read and ask any questions it raises.

cheers

Asset of Community Value Submission.pdf

[Stuart]

Paul, you talk about the Trust as a potential kingpin but could any community group step up to attempt to raise funds in a bid to delay or even prevent a sale? Or is it just the Trust because they applied for the ACV?

[Paul]

Stuart, I'm not sure kingpin is the description the Trust would chose but I do understand what you mean. The Trust achieved the nomination and a building can only be nominated once. Had we failed that would have been it! As only a single nomination can be made I presume, though I haven't researched it, only the Trust is able to bid. Cetainly it is only the Trust which BwD is obliged to inform.

The next bit is a personal view as a member of the Trust, remember I am NOT a committee member and so cannot speak for the Trust board. I offered to do this piece of work and am delighted the committee asked me to. My hope would be the Trust would look to the whole community to raise funds necessary to buy Ewood. Clearly significant backing would be needed from wealthy individuals but alongside this I hope the Trust would look to local business, the local council, the fans and the townspeople to have the chance to buy a share in the ground.

Precisely how this would work I can't say and I don't know if it has been discussed by the committee but if it were my choice those are options i would like to see made available.

[sibarnes66]

Paul will be able to clarify... but my understanding is that the Trust has to be informed, effectively this puts the news of a potential sale in the publuc domain. A bid therefore can be made by anyone. What it protects is if any owner wanted to sell an ACV they can't do it in secret. As Paul said, there is no legal right to buy, just a legal right to bid, should anyone wish too.

The Trust has been instrumental in this case because we have been able to be advised by and supported by experts in Supporters Direct.

Paul is has also been asked to go and talk to other Trusts in the NW to shard his experiences.

Submitting the ACV for ewood park is a lot more complex than a pub, given its size and history.

Well done Paul for the hard work and effort.

Sorry paul our replies crossed

[mark1875]

Trust achieved the nomination and a building can only be nominated once. Had we failed that would have been it! As only a single nomination can be made I presume, though I haven't researched it, only the Trust is able to bid.

A bid therefore can be made by anyone

Just to clarify, can anyone bid, or is only the trust able to bid, during the initial six months?