[Archived] Rovers Trust

[Paul]

Sounds familiar?

Trying to make sense of the Cardiff City numbers

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=25227

And the Cardiff Supporters Trust:

CCFCâs Accounts to May 2013

http://www.ccfctrust.org/?p=3387

Bolton, Blackburn, Cardiff, Leeds, Portsmouth, QPR.

The PL will celebrate its 21st birthday on February 2013. Is it really cause for celebration?

[Parsonblue]

Sounds familiar?

Trying to make sense of the Cardiff City numbers

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=25227

And the Cardiff Supporters Trust:

CCFCâs Accounts to May 2013

http://www.ccfctrust.org/?p=3387

Bolton, Blackburn, Cardiff, Leeds, Portsmouth, QPR.

The PL will celebrate its 21st birthday on February 2013. Is it really cause for celebration?

I think it is Paul. The Premier League has been great for football in this country and brought some world class players to our game. I enjoyed the Premier League period for the Rovers and can honestly say it was the best period of my 50-odd years of following the Rovers. I find the quality of the football in the Championship very poor compared with what we witnessed in the Premier League. You can't blame the competition for owners and clubs who want to live beyond their means. Clubs got in financial trouble before the Premier League - Stanley, Middlesbrough etc. and will continue to do so in the future.

[Paul]

I certainly agree with some of your points but after visiting the Etihad on Wednesday I'm even more convinced the PL and all associated with it has done as much damage to the game as it has brought positives.

To my mind football is much more than watching good players and if the Etihad is the future I'm so glad I experienced the past.

[pk1875]

I certainly agree with some of your points but after visiting the Etihad on Wednesday I'm even more convinced the PL and all associated with it has done as much damage to the game as it has brought positives.

To my mind football is much more than watching good players and if the Etihad is the future I'm so glad I experienced the past.

I was stood at the Etihad the other night and whilst it is a fantastic stadium, it seemed a shadow of the old Main Road ground, the atmosphere from the home fans was poor. The Manchester City Thank Sheik Mansour sign said a lot in my opinion, more a rich mans play thing than a historic football club at the heart of the community.

[Parsonblue]

At the end of the day I go to football to watch 'football'. I want to be excited by the skills on offer and the ability of players to do things that not only entertain but to see players work as a team to earn a result. What the crowd do, in terms of atmosphere doesn't really bother me. I don't go to football to sing or jump up and down. I know some do and that's fair enough. Having grown up watching the Rovers play some super football under Jack Marshall - who can forget that forward line of Ferguson, McEvoy, Pickering, Douglas and Harrison - in the top flight and then suffered the 25 year exile from that level, I have loved being back in the top flight under Jack and the Walker Trust. Watching the way City finished their chances on Wednesday merely reminded of the quality of football that is no longer available to watch at Ewood. The Championship really is a plodding affair by comparison and one can fully understand why many folk are opting to give it a miss.

[ABBEY]

I certainly agree with some of your points but after visiting the Etihad on Wednesday I'm even more convinced the PL and all associated with it has done as much damage to the game as it has brought positives.

To my mind football is much more than watching good players and if the Etihad is the future I'm so glad I experienced the past.

It's a fantastic stadium . The mancs spoil it though & it's a lot safer walking to cars than Maine rd.

[JBiz]

One of the best ways to really sum up where football is going - Hull.

Steve Bruce unfortunately started a sentence with the term "the real supporters will see.." and that to me shows that he is more bothered about who is signing the cheques, rather than the club. Which is not unexpected.. However, he must feel he is between a rock and a hard place. What would you do?

However money is irrelevant to most fans. All they want to see is 11 players doing what they have done for 100+ years, in front of generations of local fans. Changing the name of the club is tantamount to starting a fresh in my eyes, and the fans have every right to be against - regardless of investment.

If the FA allow this to happen, against the will of the fans, I will be more worried about our game than ever. It gives precedent for the worlds 1% to take what local people have built for decades and turn them into whatever they choose!

Crowds will disappear and televised games will become the expected norm - generating millions from a global business that has completely forgotten its roots.

Football is no longer just a sport, and if it's treated as such - the formula may be damaged beyond repair.

[beatrix]

At the end of the day I go to football to watch 'football'. I want to be excited by the skills on offer and the ability of players to do things that not only entertain but to see players work as a team to earn a result. What the crowd do, in terms of atmosphere doesn't really bother me. I don't go to football to sing or jump up and down. I know some do and that's fair enough. Having grown up watching the Rovers play some super football under Jack Marshall - who can forget that forward line of Ferguson, McEvoy, Pickering, Douglas and Harrison - in the top flight and then suffered the 25 year exile from that level, I have loved being back in the top flight under Jack and the Walker Trust. Watching the way City finished their chances on Wednesday merely reminded of the quality of football that is no longer available to watch at Ewood. The Championship really is a plodding affair by comparison and one can fully understand why many folk are opting to give it a miss.

[

I also remember that forward line, however although the football standard in the championship is obviously nowhere near as good

as the premiership there are positives in our situation.

We are competitive with almost anybody on a good day, totally different to the premiership where the top 6 dominate and everybody

else struggles to compete barring the odd flukey result.

We have an enthusiastic young team to watch who generally try hard for 90 mins at least.

Games generally are played at 3 o,clock Saturday, where they should be.

We have to remember we are a town team with a limited fan base, we were probably punching above our weight in the premiership

caused by our number one fan Jack Walker, very enjoyable as it was particularly in the 90,s.

In my opinion there are many positives currently coming out of our current situation, including Gary Bowyer who is a massive

stabilising influence particularly by comparison to last seasons antics.

[only2garners]

I must admit that whilst I thoroughly enjoyed my night out on Wednesday, should we go up I doubt I will bother going back there for a league game next season. I have always disliked enclosed stadiums. You could be anywhere, there is no connection to the place you're in. I'm really looking forward to the game tomorrow at a new ground for me and what I understand is a proper football ground.

[hawkiiz]

I am one of those who go to football stadiums because of the atmosphere. I want to sing, scream and have my heart miss a beat every time a ball is saved on the goal line.

Living in Norway I can't go to Ewood very often, and have to settle with the local pub (which luckily has a pretty good group of Rovers fans. Nothing beats actually being at the stadium though. Alienating the local fans is a big concern because it takes away the excitement for the "tourist" fans aswell. I would hate spending a fortune on flights and hotels only watch Rovers at a quiet Ewood Park.

My dad was big into horse racing in the 60s, 70s and 80s and would go to the field all the time, and they would be packed with people. Now there is hardly a single soul left there. Everyone is watching at a pub or gas station. It took away most of his interest in the sport, and I fear the same could happen to Football if nothing is done to keep the local fans at the stadiums.

[Paul]

I know there is a thread asking what are Rovers Trust up to at present? Well here's an example, the email went out to all Rovers Trust members earlier today (well I hope it did!!!!) :

Rovers Trust have teamed up with Barnsley FC and have this great offer for you to take advantage of.

We're emailing you on behalf on Barnsley FC Supporter's Trust, who have organised a special offer for their members to take advantage of the executive facilities at Barnsley for our up coming match with yourselves on

Tuesday January 28th

.

We would like to extend our offer to Blackburn Rovers Supporter's Trust board and members.

For £45+VAT your members can enjoy:

Match Ticket

Complimentary South Stand car parking

Stadium Tour of Oakwell

Matchday programme

Pre-match hot meal

Team Sheets

Reserved seat for the game (either in the Ronnie Glavin Suite or in the East Stand Upper tier on the centre line)

Betting facilities

Cash bar

Opportunity to liste

n

to the Man of the Match interview after the game in the Legends Suite

[TBTF]

I know there is a thread asking what are Rovers Trust up to at present? Well here's an example, the email went out to all Rovers Trust members earlier today (well I hope it did!!!!) :

Rovers Trust have teamed up with Barnsley FC and have this great offer for you to take advantage of.

We're emailing you on behalf on Barnsley FC Supporter's Trust, who have organised a special offer for their members to take advantage of the executive facilities at Barnsley for our up coming match with yourselves on

Tuesday January 28th

.

We would like to extend our offer to Blackburn Rovers Supporter's Trust board and members.

For £45+VAT your members can enjoy:

Match Ticket

Complimentary South Stand car parking

Stadium Tour of Oakwell

Matchday programme

Pre-match hot meal

Team Sheets

Reserved seat for the game (either in the Ronnie Glavin Suite or in the East Stand Upper tier on the centre line)

Betting facilities

Cash bar

Opportunity to liste

n

to the Man of the Match interview after the game in the Legends Suite

That kind of initiative on both sides is to be applauded Paul. Not sure what our commercial dept will think of it though you will probably get a response sometime in March.

TBH thats what fans Trusts should be about-like minded fans mixing with their counterparts and enjoying some good footy banter.

In following the earlier threads about celebrating the PL its a double edged sword.Should have been great and has been great but like most gravy trains they get ruined by greed.

The fans financial contribution (gate receipts)to most clubs these days is a drop in the ocean such that fans are well down the list of anybodys consideration.

But that is great credit to all concerned in putting it together.Makes you want Barnsley to stay up to be honest-and no doubt we will help them by gifting em 3 points!!!

Much more of this behaviour and the Club will be in grave danger of listening.Wouldnt it be great if 75% of our support on the night were Trust Members all using this facility?? .I presume the ticket receipts for this go to Barnsley direct rather than through our Commercial dept/ticket office?? Fascinating development.

[glen9mullan]

This offer is also available to any BRFCAG members ,

Barnsley trust Alan Bloore contacted us last week making the offer , they have around 40 places available , I suggested to Alan that it would be good to extend the offer to the Rovers Trust with it being a midweek game and also to perhaps get Rovers commercial department involved as Forest did last week with discounted corporate offers to try and fill all the places which are on offer .

This is a great initiative from Barnsley Trust and credit to Barnsley FC for working with the Trust to offer visiting supporters great hospitality at superb prices

[Lancs Rover]

I feel this is an appropriate piece of news to put here although it clearly doesn't have a direct connection to Rovers. Some great images on the Facebook page

*************************************************************************************************************************************************

Since 2007, Supporters Direct Europe has met and worked with supporters’ groups in over 20 countries. Each of these has its own distinctive fan culture, but our shared values and belief in supporter ownership makes this a truly European movement.

If you are a member of a supporters’ trust or a supporter owned club, you can make a difference. There is no other ‘model’ that guarantees the rights of supporters to not only hold a stake in the club itself, but to actively participate in its day-to-day existence.

In countries such as Germany, clubs have traditionally been structured as multi-sport democratic members’ associations (e.Vs). Even in 1998, when the DFL statutes were altered to allow clubs to convert professional football sections into limited companies, a clause that has become known as the ‘50+1 rule’ stipulated that the parent members’ association must retain a majority of votes in the limited company.

Fast forward fifteen years, and the ‘German model’ is rightly praised as a best practice example for good governance, financial health, and supporter involvement. However, the rule has also created tensions between the collective interests of club members, and the interests of those who would still see the game take a more privatised approach.

These tensions have been particularly acute at Hamburger Sport-Verein, one of six clubs competing in the Bundesliga this season that remains an e.V, 100% member-owned. There is a feeling, encouraged and stoked up by certain wealthy, influential supporters and sponsors, that the recent lack of on-pitch success would be addressed (some would argue solved) by allowing private ‘investment’ into the club, and diluting the influence of members.

When you take the wider view, a clear picture emerges: whilst some German clubs have opened themselves up to individual investors, very few have managed to actually attract them – as fans from many countries could tell you, football benefactors aren’t in it for minority shareholdings.

Members of the HSV Supporters Club believe this argument is wrong, misleading, and a threat to the club itself. Formed in 1993, the Supporters Club is a department of the club itself, aimed at participating in the club’s activities and shaping club policy for the good of fans and members. Members of the Supporters Club must be members of the club, with the two splitting the annual membership fee. The Supporters Club coordinates a raft of activities: organising away travel, distributing tickets, merchandising, supporting the club’s amateur departments, and much more. No fan-related decision is taken by the club board without the Supporters Club being consulted first.

The success of the HSV Supporters Club shows that football is about so much more than mere success on the pitch. More than 90% of football clubs never win anything, yet the world’s population does not simply coalesce around, say, the four Champions League semi-finalists. The Bundesliga is Europe’s best-attended league, and has been for the past nine seasons. German football supporters not only enjoy the advantage of low ticket prices, safe standing areas and the rest, but – more importantly – they are able to have a say in how their clubs are run, with the knowledge that unless they and their fellow members vote otherwise, the club will belong to them, and future generations. This is a right denied to the vast majority of football supporters in other countries, and should not be given up lightly. HSV are undoubtedly experiencing a difficult time, on and off the pitch, but diluting the influence of the members in favour of a sugar daddy and promises of trophies is simply not the solution.

That’s why we are supporting the HSV Not For Sale campaign, which ahead of the AGM in early 2014 is aiming to build momentum amongst the membership for change – but of a positive kind, that ensures the club remains 100% controlled by its members. Supporters’ groups across Europe have already demonstrated their backing for the campaign, with banners appearing in stadiums across the continent. You can lend your support by liking the HSV Not For Sale page on Facebook, and visiting their website. If you would like the HSV Supporters Club to send you a home-made banner to display at your club’s match, please contact us

Hi Paul

I disagree. There are definite links between Rovers and HSV. We have been following HSV since seeing them in the World Cup year, 2006.

We are members of the HSV Supporters Club UK which is run by two Rovers fans who live in the area. Every year they run a trip to the last home game of the season. Hopefully, we will be able to afford it this year. Maybe with some other Rovers fans, who knows.

Nuer der HSV.

[Blackburn Ender]

In this morning's Times and well worth signing this petition from Coventry City fans calling on Government to put an end to the corporate vandalism that is endangering so many of our football clubs, Coventry obviously, Rovers as well.

The petition says:Without Fans there is no Football

"Football is our national game but the interests of fans are being disregarded by club owners and ruling bodies - government action is needed.

"UK football clubs are not financial franchises: they are rooted in their local communities and are an important part of local identity and heritage.

"But a new type of club owner is disregarding all that, pricing many people out of the game with inflated ticket and other costs, alienating people by seeking to change clubs’ names, colours and so on. Football's governing bodies are failing to address the situation.

"We therefore ask that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee revisits its work on football governance and illustrates growing problems by undertaking a short Inquiry into one particular club, Coventry City, whose owner has relocated the club from the City of Coventry to Northampton, 35 miles away.

This will highlight concerns shared by football fans across the country, and the need for action."

Sign here: https://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/59884

2,908 signatures so far.

[ABBEY]

And which clubs fans got behind us ???

None . We were lambasted from lands end to john o groats

[Al]

And which clubs fans got behind us ???

None . We were lambasted from lands end to john o groats

You do well to remind us of that Abs.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I think it is Paul. The Premier League has been great for football in this country and brought some world class players to our game. I enjoyed the Premier League period for the Rovers and can honestly say it was the best period of my 50-odd years of following the Rovers. I find the quality of the football in the Championship very poor compared with what we witnessed in the Premier League. You can't blame the competition for owners and clubs who want to live beyond their means. Clubs got in financial trouble before the Premier League - Stanley, Middlesbrough etc. and will continue to do so in the future.

Along with Bill Fox, who fought it hard, I was uneasy about the whole concept from the beginning, but I have to agree that my best Rovers years came after '92 with the Premiership and Jack's money. Outside the Premiership, promotion with Souness was particularly enjoyable.

I do have the sneaking fear that -because of the Premiership and all its greed etc-I am about to experience my lowest period( or at least as bad as 1970 -4).

Not sure how good the Premiership has been for the majority though. I guess it is one of those essay questions...

[beatrix]

The only way forward for town teams like us seems to be with some form of local fanbased partial ownership.

The Rao,s have been a disaster only because they were allowed by the walkers trust and their advisors including john Williams to buy this club in an industry

they knew nothing about, and probably for the wrong reasons. Where were the local people who are expressing an interest now in running the club when the

club was on open sale? the price seemed more than reasonable and lower than the two Ians were talking about. Surely that was an opportunity missed to keep

out unsuitable owners like the Rao,s of BRFC. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it is now almost impossible to see a way forward when we are £ 55 M in debt

and supposedly losing 2M per week. How or why experienced business people are continuing in this situation is very difficult to explain and their lack of

communication at any level is bewildering. All in all it is a massively dangerous and bewildering position we find ourselves in.

[yoda]

The only way forward for town teams like us seems to be with some form of local fanbased partial ownership.

The Rao,s have been a disaster only because they were allowed by the walkers trust and their advisors including john Williams to buy this club in an industry

they knew nothing about, and probably for the wrong reasons. Where were the local people who are expressing an interest now in running the club when the

club was on open sale? the price seemed more than reasonable and lower than the two Ians were talking about. Surely that was an opportunity missed to keep

out unsuitable owners like the Rao,s of BRFC. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it is now almost impossible to see a way forward when we are £ 55 M in debt

and supposedly losing 2M per week. How or why experienced business people are continuing in this situation is very difficult to explain and their lack of

communication at any level is bewildering. All in all it is a massively dangerous and bewildering position we find ourselves in.

I don't think John Williams had anything to do with it, this subject also got a good airing in the Bowyer thread last night

[ABBEY]

Sorry if I wasn't clear - yes simply my message would be if Swansea can do it so can Rovers. BUT we have a much bigger problem in firstly the game has moved on enormously since the period when Swansea suffered so badly and Rovers debts are in the £55-65m region while Swansea had debts in the hundreds of thousands. Despite this Swansea prove a small city/town club part owned by the supporters and part by local business can survive and thrive in the PL.

Personally I don't believe all is lost for Rovers but I do believe nothing at all can happen until the Raos leave. We are broke and the only solution is to start again under a new form of ownership.

As for plenty disagreeing on here? Well plenty disagreed with the very few of us who warned against Venkys and the Raos from day one. This was never going to work and it hasn't. That isn't an "I told you so" remark my point is holding a differing view from the majority doesn't necessarily make one right or wrong. It's just a different opinion.

Earlier this week I posted this in another thread regarding a Swansea/Rovers comparison:

It can though be a case of finding the positives and advantages Rovers have in what is quite a similar situation. Swansea had a period of disastrous ownership in the late '90s/ early '00s followed by the club only avoiding relegation to the Conference on the last day of the 2001/02 season. From that point it took the club 9 years to gain promotion to the PL. In that time the club, facilities, ground etc have been rebuilt virtually from scratch. I don't know what the initial debt was but it was certainly very, very much lower than Rovers - probably only in the hundreds of thousands. The Swansea Trust was able to persuade, I think, five local businessmen to get involved in rebuilding the club for the benefit of the city and therefore local business etc.

On the upside for Rovers we already have all the facilities a club needs to gain promotion and survive in the PL, we've proved this over 20+ years. What we lack is decent ownership, a local focus and a winning team. One good season, not this one I imagine, could put us back where we belong. It took Swansea 9 years it needn't take Rovers that long IF local people can be found to own and manage the club in the fashion we all know works.

So who sacked Laudrup then ?

[martonrover]

And which clubs fans got behind us ???

None . We were lambasted from lands end to john o groats

I would say large sections of the media lambasted us, (owing to certain influences), and that coloured many people's thinking.

[ABBEY]

I would say large sections of the media lambasted us, (owing to certain influences), and that coloured many people's thinking.

Still didn't stop us getting mullered on phone ins and stuff.

Can someone please tell us if the trust still backs the Swansea way . Genuine question.Reafing between the lines it look it's been coming for a while but who would make the decision to sack someone ? One person or a ballot of trustees ?

[Paul]

So who sacked Laudrup then ?

I don't see what your point is.

Laudrup was sacked because Swansea are two points off the drop zone. If Rovers were owned by the Trust and in a similar position I would imagine the club CEO might consider the same move.

[Paul]

Still didn't stop us getting mullered on phone ins and stuff.

Can someone please tell us if the trust still backs the Swansea way . Genuine question.Reafing between the lines it look it's been coming for a while but who would make the decision to sack someone ? One person or a ballot of trustees ?

I don't know the Swansea position. Rovers Trust has always said a management team would be appointed to run the club. The fans would own the club NOT run it.

If the appointed management, CEO etc. felt the manager should've sacked that would presumably be his decision. I've no doubt the CEO would want to consult with shareholders first.

The trust members elect the trust board to make decisions. Sacking the manager would not go to a fan ballot as nothing would ever get done.

To be honest Abbey I can't help but feel you have misunderstood the way fan ownership through a trust works.