[Archived] Rovers Trust

[Speedie Dived]

<br /><br />I think you will be quite staggered how many actually just want a well run club and have little interest on who owns it.

<br /><br />The two are not mutually exclusive though. Lose on Sunday and the attention will turn to the owners.

[Mr. E]

Two questions:

What is the plan of action in terms of getting the club out of Venkys hands? Is it all about making an offer when we have the money? What if they refuse to sell no matter what? Is there any means by which we can force their hand?

What is the estimated timeline for a takeover? Is this a one or two year target, or are we talking five or more?

10 pounds sounds a very good deal of course, but don't we need more if we are to collect some serious funds?

[Paul]

Two questions:

What is the plan of action in terms of getting the club out of Venkys hands? Is it all about making an offer when we have the money? What if they refuse to sell no matter what? Is there any means by which we can force their hand?

To date the Trust's energies have concentrated in three areas; creating the legal entity, beginning a membership campaign and offering supporters the opportunity to make a "soft" pledge to financially support a part or whole purchase of the club. The "soft" pledges are to raise the cash to put the Trust in a position to make an offer. By making "soft" pledge the supporter is not committed to handing over the cash.

Originally these pledges were made to BRSIT totalling approximately £3 million. The Trust is contacting those who originally pledged with regard to transfering these to Rovers Trust.

At a point in the future Rovers Trust will ask for these pledges to be turned into hard cash. The fans who pledged will be asked to pay the money into an Escrow account. This is an account where a trusted third-party, usually a bank, receives and disburses money between two parties (the Trust and the pledger). The monies are held in this account until such time as a purchase takes place. The supporter's cash is entirely safe and can only be used for a share purchase.

What is the estimated timeline for a takeover? Is this a one or two year target, or are we talking five or more?

At present there isn't a timeline, that is the honest answer. Rovers Trust exists to take advantage of any purchase opportunity which presents itself. It's well publicised the owners have stated they do not wish to sell and are here for the long haul. For the present this leaves a number of options; make an approach to purchase a percentage of the club, IF a third party makes a bid contact and hopefully join with that third party, wait for the owners to sell or finally if the worst should happen and the club faced administration to make a bid as the Pompey Trust have done.

10 pounds sounds a very good deal of course, but don't we need more if we are to collect some serious funds?

Well yes £10 is a very good deal but this is the cost of Trust membership, it does not buy a share in the club. By becoming a Trust member for £10 you have one vote in how the Trust is run; if Rovers Trust is successful in obtaining a shareholding in the club your vote would be used to decide how the Trust should run the club. If you wish to become a shareholder in the club the cost per share is £1000. Being a shareholder does not give you extra voting rights, shareholders and Trust members are exactly equal.

There is no pressure or requirement for Trust members to become shareholders. You can do as much for the club by becoming a Trust member as the person who puts £100,000 for shares.

The pledges form the foundation of raising the necessary funds, the "serious funds" to use your phrase. Fans have been pledging £xxx to purchase a share in the club when the Trust makes a bid.

Finding £1000 is a challenge for most people. The Trust has tried to make this as affordable as possible for every fan. Therefore families, friends or workmates could join together to purchase a single share. A special savings account is being established with Jubilee Credit to help fans save towards the £1000 needed to buy a share.

[Glenn]

But bRAG did aleverything against the club last year?

I think you just both need to merge like what was discussed back in jan feb at manxman.

Supporters I speak to aren't interested in either due to this..

... and it's why people like me are rapidly losing faith and interest in it all. Until Tuesday I thought there was a glimmer of hope that everyone could come together, now I genuinely believe it's a none starter. Real shame. There are people on both sides who could make a real go of it, but a handful in the middle that will make sure it doesn't happen.

[Amo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axb2sHpGwHQ

[mark1875]

... and it's why people like me are rapidly losing faith and interest in it all. Until Tuesday I thought there was a glimmer of hope that everyone could come together, now I genuinely believe it's a none starter. Real shame. There are people on both sides who could make a real go of it, but a handful in the middle that will make sure it doesn't happen.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? what happened Tuesday to confirm this?

[Speedie Dived]

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? what happened Tuesday to confirm this?

Mark, would you be able to inform us why you are so anti trust?

[Glenn]

Can you elaborate on this a bit more? what happened Tuesday to confirm this?

Shebby effectively halting his attempts to unite the fans groups due to irreconcilable differences (my words, not his).

Until then, I still had hope. Not now. Things will continue as they are. I've no idea who will "win" but I'm confident it's now neither the fans nor the club.

[SouthAussieRover]

He's probably as keaned off with the number of different groups as the rest of us are.

[mark1875]

Mark, would you be able to inform us why you are so anti trust?

Certainly, i fully supported BRSIT and along side other Action Group members, stood in the rain promoting their launch in Blackburn and surrounding areas, drumming up support for the BRSIT launch in April, as i thought the professionalism and timing of that launch was excellent.

However some people have took lumps out of not just me but Action Group members as a whole over the months and these people now sit on that steering committee, it's difficult to support something where an executive member of their committee has been thrown out of games for abusing me and other group members and continually claiming that only true supporters 'do the miles' and attend away games, and those who don't aren't classed as true, and as the secretary of a group which has many supporters outside the area and abroad, this is something which particularly infuriates me, each supporter is as important as the next in the Blackburn Rovers family. On top of this the timing is all wrong, this trust has taken 2 years to get off the ground, the whole aim has changed since the BRSIT launch, the finances are not there and the possibility of it happening are too slim. That is my personal opinion.

Shebby effectively halting his attempts to unite the fans groups due to irreconcilable differences (my words, not his).

After attending the last 'United Supporters' meeting he decided against attending any more as he doesn't feel comfortable sitting in a meeting with the Rovers Trust (his words, not mine)

[roverzee]

I agree with the above statement, all groups should be going the CLUBS way and trying to work WITH the clubs current administration, and not working against the people running it!

I agree that whilst everyone is pulling together and trying to help push for promotion and supporting the club, new launches of 15 self appointed people with a membership base of 200/300 trying to turn on the owners and issuing press releases slamming the process of appointing of a new manager (which the rovers trust did last month), claiming financial meltdown (when the accounts and summer spending prove otherwise) is a detrimental cause.

Read the last 3 news articles on the BRFC Action Group website, the minutes and supporter liaison article on there are those of a group working WITH the club as oppose to their own way! something the club endorses, its the best way to move forward, with the club to make things better, i'm sure you agree.

Whilst most support the positive changes at the club, and support their attempts to communicate and move forward, some have their OWN agendas.

Coming from a group which started life as a protest body on a hell-bent crusade to get rid of the manager and the owners, this is a very strange post. If you are going to claim that BRAG does everything on the say-so of it's enormous membership - a membership built up on the back of a vehement anti-Kean, anti-Venkys stance - then when will you publish the ballot evidence that a majority of BRAG's enormous body of members in any way endorses the committee's U-turn?

[Speedie Dived]

Certainly, i fully supported BRSIT and along side other Action Group members, stood in the rain promoting their launch in Blackburn and surrounding areas, drumming up support for the BRSIT launch in April, as i thought the professionalism and timing of that launch was excellent.

However some people have took lumps out of not just me but Action Group members as a whole over the months and these people now sit on that steering committee, it's difficult to support something where an executive member of their committee has been thrown out of games for abusing me and other group members and continually claiming that only true supporters 'do the miles' and attend away games, and those who don't aren't classed as true, and as the secretary of a group which has many supporters outside the area and abroad, this is something which particularly infuriates me, each supporter is as important as the next in the Blackburn Rovers family. On top of this the timing is all wrong, this trust has taken 2 years to get off the ground, the whole aim has changed since the BRSIT launch, the finances are not there and the possibility of it happening are too slim. That is my personal opinion.

After attending the last 'United Supporters' meeting he decided against attending any more as he doesn't feel comfortable sitting in a meeting with the Rovers Trust (his words, not mine)

Don't understand the "every fan is equal" view. Some fans will always put more money, time and effort into supporting a team. Therefore they should naturally be considered more of a fan that those that don't.

Could you explain whose aim has changed? Theirs or yours?

So what Shebby is saying that despite relegating us, destroying the club from top to bottom and make us a national laughing stock he is ok to talk as long as he feels comfortable and not told any home truths?

[mark1875]

Don't understand the "every fan is equal" view. Some fans will always put more money, time and effort into supporting a team. Therefore they should naturally be considered more of a fan that those that don't.

Could you explain whose aim has changed? Theirs or yours?

So what Shebby is saying that despite relegating us, destroying the club from top to bottom and make us a national laughing stock he is ok to talk as long as he feels comfortable and not told any home truths?

Regarding the first point, i do not think that someone, let's say with a family and kids to support who can't attend away games due to financial restrictions should be considered any less of a fan than a single bloke who only has himself to consider.

Their aims have changed, 6 months ago this was a disaster plan if the club hit the rocks, a rescue package. Listening to podcasts, various steering committee members opinions and such like, this is no longer that.

Shebby doesn't believe he can sit in a meeting with people who are trying to replace his bosses, at the end of the day he works for the Venkys and needs to be careful. That's his stance and his prerogative, it ain't my job to defend his decisions, i was simply correcting the post which left the assumption groups where to blame.

[Speedie Dived]

Regarding the first point, i do not think that someone, let's say with a family and kids to support who can't attend away games due to financial restrictions should be considered any less of a fan than a single bloke who only has himself to consider.

Their aims have changed, 6 months ago this was a disaster plan if the club hit the rocks, a rescue package. Listening to podcasts, various steering committee members opinions and such like, this is no longer that.

Shebby doesn't believe he can sit in a meeting with people who are trying to replace his bosses, at the end of the day he works for the Venkys and needs to be careful. That's his stance and his prerogative, it ain't my job to defend his decisions, i was simply correcting the post which left the assumption groups where to blame.

No i agree with first point, however a single bloke who has never stepped foot in Ewood but spouts off on MB's is far less of a fan than family man who would love to go but cannot make it.

Fair enough that is your right. As the trust has gone further away from Venkys, do you not think there is a danger that BRAG are now too close? The relationship with Shebby, the imminent arrival in the Darwen End, are you not more or less an extension of the club now? The danger for yourselves here is if Venkys go down, they will take you down with them.

Again, that's fair enough from Shebby, from a professional point of view. However, if i was you, i would be worried that he feels he can sit in a room with you.

[Paul]

Shebby doesn't believe he can sit in a meeting with people who are trying to replace his bosses, at the end of the day he works for the Venkys and needs to be careful. That's his stance and his prerogative, it ain't my job to defend his decisions, i was simply correcting the post which left the assumption groups where to blame.

Hardly an unreasonable point of view. I think I'd probably feel the same.

[mark1875]

No i agree with first point, however a single bloke who has never stepped foot in Ewood but spouts off on MB's is far less of a fan than family man who would love to go but cannot make it.

Fair enough that is your right. As the trust has gone further away from Venkys, do you not think there is a danger that BRAG are now too close? The relationship with Shebby, the imminent arrival in the Darwen End, are you not more or less an extension of the club now? The danger for yourselves here is if Venkys go down, they will take you down with them.

Again, that's fair enough from Shebby, from a professional point of view. However, if i was you, i would be worried that he feels he can sit in a room with you.

The first point, the person in question was continually aiming it at those whose circumstances prevented them from attending away games.

We are by no means an extension of the club. Our base in the Darwen End was arranged with no consultation with the clubs key officials, both Shebby and the board only found out once the deal was done and the supporters where informed. We will continue the dialogue with the club, which we cried out for last season to try and improve supporter/club/community relations, our meetings with the club, whether that be with Security, Marketing, Directors or indeed Shebby are not tea and biscuit affairs, they are straight to the point and the supporters who raised the issues corner is always fought well.

I'd like to think Shebby sits in a room with us to try and resolve issues and to date he is working across many remits to try and improve things and always takes a hands on role in the projects required, I am not trying to replace him or his bosses, merely liaise with him on issues affecting supporters, regardless of the nature.

[Speedie Dived]

The first point, the person in question was continually aiming it at those whose circumstances prevented them from attending away games.

We are by no means an extension of the club. Our base in the Darwen End was arranged with no consultation with the clubs key officials, both Shebby and the board only found out once the deal was done and the supporters where informed. We will continue the dialogue with the club, which we cried out for last season to try and improve supporter/club/community relations, our meetings with the club, whether that be with Security, Marketing, Directors or indeed Shebby are not tea and biscuit affairs, they are straight to the point and the supporters who raised the issues corner is always fought well.

I'd like to think Shebby sits in a room with us to try and resolve issues and to date he is working across many remits to try and improve things and always takes a hands on role in the projects required, I am not trying to replace him or his bosses, merely liaise with him on issues affecting supporters, regardless of the nature.

We potentially could be approaching a point in time whereby the majority of your members want him and his bosses replaced soon.

My final point, and thanks for taking time to answer my points. If i was Venkys and i wanted to stop protests, deflect attention, i would have done exactly what they did in appointing Shebby, i hope your faith and trust in him does not come back to haunt you.

[roverzee]

Coming from a group which started life as a protest body on a hell-bent crusade to get rid of the manager and the owners, this is a very strange post. If you are going to claim that BRAG does everything on the say-so of it's enormous membership - a membership built up on the back of a vehement anti-Kean, anti-Venkys stance - then when will you publish the ballot evidence that a majority of BRAG's enormous body of members in any way endorses the committee's U-turn?

Why are BRAG people ignoring this question?

You all wore the tshirts, 100% Rovers 0% Venkys? Everyone signed up on that message.

Now the BRAG top brass are all 100% Venkys and cosying up to Shebby Singh, but there is no legitimacy for this from the members.

Why hold a ballot on a side issue like supporting the Rovers Trust, when there is no mandate for BRAG leaders to have done a 180 degree about turn on the main reason BRAG started out and got any members in the first place?

[Roost]

Why are BRAG people ignoring this question?

You all wore the tshirts, 100% Rovers 0% Venkys? Everyone signed up on that message.

Now the BRAG top brass are all 100% Venkys and cosying up to Shebby Singh, but there is no legitimacy for this from the members.

Why hold a ballot on a side issue like supporting the Rovers Trust, when there is no mandate for BRAG leaders to have done a 180 degree about turn on the main reason BRAG started out and got any members in the first place?

Excellent post, and one that I am really forward to reading the response to.

However, my breath will not be held.

[mark1875]

Why are BRAG people ignoring this question?

You all wore the tshirts, 100% Rovers 0% Venkys? Everyone signed up on that message.

Now the BRAG top brass are all 100% Venkys and cosying up to Shebby Singh, but there is no legitimacy for this from the members.

Why hold a ballot on a side issue like supporting the Rovers Trust, when there is no mandate for BRAG leaders to have done a 180 degree about turn on the main reason BRAG started out and got any members in the first place?

Our official membership scheme was launched in August, long after dialogue with the club had begun, the mission statement on our website is the same as it was then with minor updates as time progressed. The same literature was put on leaflets and publications sent out by the group.

The group is 100% Rovers, not 100% Venkys. The communication at the club is different from that of last season. Last season it was made very clear to Paul Hunt that if supporters concerns were listened to around a table then protests could be taken from the stands but that communication had to be transparent and open and not limited to the handful of people to be attending, he stipulated only a private unrecognised meeting could take place and this was deemed pointless.

We now have open dialogue with the bloke running the club, in addition to the highest ranked director at the club, where any of our members questions/concerns can be raised and an answer provided, we are resolving issues for long standing groups such as the Blackburn Rovers Disabled Supporters Association (BRDSA) in addition to the Ladies football team at the club, all this is positive constructive dialogue which should be welcomed.

The members did not join in January/February to simply protest or when protests where at their peak, they joined a group during this season, a group with a mission statement which clearly stated its objectives where to pursue and maintain dialogue with the clubs administration whoever that may be.

We have members with differing opinions however they all chose to join a group whose intention was to have open dialogue with the people running the football club, there has not been a "180 degree turn" since August, that objective has always remained.

[glen9mullan]

Why are BRAG people ignoring this question?

You all wore the tshirts, 100% Rovers 0% Venkys? Everyone signed up on that message.

Now the BRAG top brass are all 100% Venkys and cosying up to Shebby Singh, but there is no legitimacy for this from the members.

Why hold a ballot on a side issue like supporting the Rovers Trust, when there is no mandate for BRAG leaders to have done a 180 degree about turn on the main reason BRAG started out and got any members in the first place?

The T-shirts if I remember were produced in September 2011 by a supporter, The Action Group did not even form until nearly 5 months later. Our official membership was only launched 4 months ago after communication had already opened with club.

Saying everyone signed up on that message is a sweeping statement, do you have evidence of this?

100% Venkys, Again do you have evidence of this?

Cosy with Shebby? We meet with all the club directors and Shebby, thats how we get answers, this is a working relationship not a cosy one.

Why do people protest? The reason I protested was firstly because of the Manager, secondly after months of no communication or willingness to have any. People protest to get their voice heard, once their is a willingness from both sides to discuss around a table then the military element or hostile element comes away from the stands and its discussed rationally.

What would you rather we do? Start protesting again?

Our official membership scheme was launched in August, long after dialogue with the club had begun, the mission statement on our website is the same as then with minor updates as time progressed. The same literature was put on leaflets and publications sent out by the group.

The group is 100% club, not 100% Venkys, the communication at the club is different from that of last season. Last season it was made very clear to Paul Hunt that if supporters concerns are listened to around a table then protests could be taken from the stands but that communication had to be transparent and open and not limited to a handful of people attending, he stipulated only a private unrecognised meeting could take place and this was deemed pointless. We now have open dialogue with the bloke running the club and the highest ranked director at the club, where any of our members questions/concerns can be raised and an answer provided, we are resolving issues for long standing groups such as the Blackburn Rovers Disabled Supporters Association (BRDSA) in addition to the Ladies football team at the club, all this is positive constructive dialogue which should be welcomed.

The members did not join in January/February to simply protest or when protests where at their peak, they joined a group during this season, a group with a mission statement which clearly stated its objectives where to pursue and maintain dialogue with the clubs administration whoever that may be.

We have members with differing opinions however they all knew when they joined the group that the intention was to have open dialogue with the people running the football club, there has not been a "180 degree" turn since August, that objective has always remained.

Lol, Mark you just posted pretty much what I did on the other thread

[Baz]

So Glenn, Mark you have balloted your members and the majority are happy to support Venky's as long as you get meetings with Shebby and the other directors?

[T.J.Newton]

I've only just realised what brag have done to the BRFC crest, I aint impressed(absolutely deluded egotists).

[Parsonblue]

I've only just realised what brag have done to the BRFC crest, I aint impressed(absolutely deluded egotists).

You've got to laugh at their "One Vision" claim - obviously it's one vision as long as it's their vision as they seem to have spent the night arguing the toss with other groups. No wonder the vast majority of fans will have nothing to do with all of these groups. It's more like a battle of the egos than a united fanbase. One group against Venkys then for Venkys. Another group wanting us to give them a grand in the hope of getting rid of Venkys or is that working with Venkys - I'm still not quite clear which it is. Fortunately, the majority of fans are just happy to go and watch their team and not get involved in this nonsense.

[Tom]

You know what Parson you are spot on

Fact is a large percentage of our fans have no idea who either group is or what they stand for

I kind of wish I could go back to that stage, the only time I hear or see any squabbling is on the internet, I imagine the fans that don't use it are more content than us