[Archived] Peterborough United versus BRFC; 17 November 2012.

[m1st]

INTRODUCTION.

Of all our opponents in this season’s Championship, Peterborough United is not only the one we’ve met least often in the League but also the one against whom we have the worst League record. That’s because, before this year, there’s only been one season when the two clubs have been in the same Division and, even though it was our 1974/75 Promotion season, they beat us 1-0 both at home and away.

HISTORY.

The present-day Peterborough United was formed in 1934, replacing the defunct Peterborough & Fletton United, the team which was originally known as “The Posh” but which had gone out of business a couple of seasons previously. The newly-formed team played in the old Midland League and won it on 6 occasions, including 5 times on the trot from 1955/56 – 1959/60, before being voted into the Football League in 1960, replacing Gateshead in Division 4. Their success continued and, at the end of their first season, they were promoted to Division 3, where they remained for seven seasons before being relegated in 1968 as a punishment for financial regularities. They were in Division 4 for another 6 seasons before they were promoted as champions.

Their return to Division 3 coincided with the last season of our first spell in that Division as Gordon Lee’s team won the Division 3 Championship. And, as noted above, only one team did the Double over us that season: Peterborough United! As an inveterate follower of the team in those days [long before I met the erstwhile Mrs m1st], I remember the incredulity on our way home from London Road.

Posh were relegated to Division 4 in 1979, just as we were being relegated to Division 3. Of course, Howard Kendall got us back to Division 2 at the first attempt but Peterborough remained in Division 4 throughout the 1980s. They won promotion back to the old Division 3 in 1991 and the following season, found themselves in that Division’s play-off finals at Wembley. Just like us only a Division below us! And, just like us, they won their play-off.

So, just as we became founder-members of the Premier League, Peterborough took our place in Football League Division 1 [as the old Division 2 was re-named in 1992]. They only remained there for a couple of seasons before being relegated back to what was by then called Football League Division 2 [“Division 3-really” to old fogeys like me]. They stayed there for three seasons before being relegated to the bottom tier of League football. After three seasons at that level, they returned to Football League Division 2, where they stayed for five seasons. In 2005, they were relegated once more to what was by then known as League Two [a.k.a. “Division 4-really”].

The following year, an Irish businessman, Darragh MacAnthony, became the Chairman of Peterborough and appointed Darren Ferguson to manage the team. Under Ferguson Junior, Peterborough won consecutive promotions and were back in the Championship at the start of the 2009/10 season. They made a poor start; Ferguson left the club in November 2009 and the club was relegated from the Championship after just one season. He was re-appointed in January 2011 after a less than successful spell as PNE’s manager and won promotion to the Championship, via the play-offs, at the end of the 2010/11 season. Last season, their first back in the Championship, they finished in 18^th place.

COMMON LINKS.

Off the top of my head, I can think of only two names which link the two clubs, both from the same era.

The first is David Gregory, a Peterborough-born forward who began his career with his local team, before moving onto Stoke City who loaned him to us at the start of the 1978/79 season, when we were in Division 3 under Jim Iley, the man whose title as “Least Popular Rovers’ Manager” was surely undisputed for more than 30 years after his departure in 1979.

One of my London-based friends in that pre-internet era suggested we start a campaign to be called “GROIN”, which stood for “Get Rid Of Iley Now” After one particularly awful home game, I got a bus into town to have a badge with that acronym on it made at one of the stalls on Blackburn Market; Iley was gone by the next home game! It’d be presumptuous of me to claim the credit but. . !

Gregory only played 5 games at the start of the season, scoring 3 goals; but apparently preferred to be transferred to Bury, rather than play any more games under Iley, who had also managed Peterborough United from 1969 to 1972, beginning as their player-manager.

OPPONENTS’ OPINION.

For the opinions in this section, I’m grateful to Steve Bull [i don’t think he’s the old Wolves striker!] of www.LondonRoad.net which seems to be Peterborough’s nearest equivalent to this website. His answer to the final question is an interesting insight on how the Championship is far removed from the Premier League.

We're new boys to the Championship and, despite some people's pre-season predictions, aren't walking away with it. What do you reckon it takes to succeed in the Championship?

Cream does rise to the top, on paper you have a great squad of players and with a new manager can see you putting a very good run together, especially over the winter period when smaller squads will suffer from injuries etc. It looks like your team just needs a bit of confidence and direction, I think you made a good choice for manager and, assuming the owners don't interfere, you'll be Premier League next season.

You've recently moved away from the foot of the table; which of your players ought we to be watching out for as dangermen?

Good question, we've been very patchy, on his day Boyd can destroy a team, Tomlin has great natural talent and out loanee from the Baggies, Berahino, is a future star (great skills and ability to hold the ball for someone who is still filling out). If all three show up, we'll hold our own, if not, it will be a one-sided game and we'll be relying on our defence which has improved significantly over the past months.

Which of our players, from what you've read, will be a threat to Peterborough?

Have to say, all of them, Rhodes is a good addition to your team (even though he came to you from Huddersfailed), and you still have multiple players that would hold their own in the Premier League.

As to owners, you've doubtless read what most Rovers' fans think about our current owners. Given that you're owned by someone who appears to be a bit of a one-off, I'd be grateful to read your thoughts on owners.

It's tough being an owner outside of the top division, our owner has invested a significant portion of his fortune and he generally loves the team, sometimes a little too passionately. With so much pressure on a team to make smart financial decisions, bring in new talent and achieve results it's impossible for owners to not get involved with on-the-pitch decisions. Having said all that, your owners seem like nutters based on the media articles I have read, hopefully things will either settle down for you or a real fan, who loves everything about the club and its history, will come forward and buy them out.

Specifically, can you see your owner providing the funds to get into the Premier League, or is the Championship the height of his ambition?

For us, with a stadium in desperate need of upgrading and small crowds (partly due to the facilites), Championship survival is the best we can hope for right now. By selling players we may, just about, break even in this league. If we go down it's impossible to get close to breakeven if we want to push for promotion back to the championship. Hopefully, in the medium to longer term, more rules will be brought in to force teams to spend within their means, it's only then that we can compete on a level field. We find it appalling that some clubs are allowed to continue piling on debt with no intent to pay their creditors.

WHERE TO DRINK.

The following is extracted from www.footballguide.com

“The Cherry Tree pub on Oundle Road is popular with both home and away fans. It is about a 15 minute walk away from the visitors turnstiles. It is a friendly pub that is listed in the CAMRA Good Beer Guide and also offers a range of reasonably priced matchday food, such Chilli & Chips, Curry & Chips, Burgers etc., which are served from a separate area to the rear of the pub. You can also park in their car park at a cost of £2.50 per car and £5 per minibus.

“Alun Thomas a visiting Wrexham supporter adds; 'We found a better bet than the Cherry Tree was the Palmerston Arms. It is away fan friendly and has around 10 real ales on on offer. This pub is situated around 100 yards further along Oundle Road on the opposite side'. This pub is owned by Batemans Brewery and serves a number of their own ales, as well as additional guest ales. It is a strange pub, in so much that apart from one real ale on handpump, the rest of the ales are dispensed straight from the barrels in the cellar, which can be viewed through a glass window behind the bar. Please note that the pub doesn't stock the likes of Guinness, Carling etc... The pub also doesn't serve food, but doesn't object to customers bringing in their own.

“Near to the ground is

Charters

, which is certainly worth a visit and is also listed in the CAMRA Good Beer Guide. This former Dutch barge, is moored on the River Nene, just a few minutes walk away from London Road, on the left hand side of the bridge, going towards the city centre. Upstairs is a Chinese restaurant, but downstairs there is a bar, which had on my last visit 12 real ales on tap. It was friendly enough and fans were able to take their drinks out onto the river bank, which makes it quite pleasant, when the weather is good. Alternatively, the ground is in walking distance (10 minutes) of the city centre (which is very pleasant and complete with a cathedral) where there are plenty of good pubs to be found. If you are arriving by train then the Brewery Tap near to the station on Westgate, is worth a visit. The home of Oakham Ales, this spacious bar serves good beer, Thai food and allows you views into the brewery itself. Pete Cluderay informs me; 'I discovered an excellent pub just up the road from the Brewery Tap called the Wortley Almshouses which is housed within quite an old building. It serves reasonable priced beers by Sam Smiths as well as food.‘ ”

CURRENT FORM.

For this bit of the preview I’ve gone for the last seven, rather than the more common six, games because that’s how many games we’ve played free of the inept influence of our previous “manager”.

Posh were very slow starters to this season and looked as though they were going to lose touch with the rest of the division, but recently showed an improvement in form and have 6 points from their last seven games [W2, D0, L5]. That’s three fewer than our record of [W2, D3, L2] in the same period. They sounded to be a bit unlucky last weekend against Palace, losing 2-1 after having led from the 6^th to the 80^th minute. They’re still in the relegation zone, however, and are only one point above bottom club, Bristol City.

SATURDAY’S GAME.

Well, like everyone, I’m hoping that the effect of having a proper manager at last will pay off, leading to a much better team display which will see us get our first win under Henning. Looking at the table, I’d say that it’s crucial that we do; we’re a couple of points behind the top six clubs and a point ahead of Brighton in eighth. There are then only four points separating Brighton and Birmingham City in 19^th place.

As a “glass-half-full” fan, I’d like to think that this game will see us get a good win, 3-0 say, to keep on the heels of the top six but the realist in me won’t be putting money on it.

[JAL]

Great preview dont think Scot Dann will have too much to worry about regarding crosses coming into the Rovers penalty area lets hope.

[Derbyshire Blue]

Had two trips on the League Liner, was it the Peterborough game I went to on it? (definitely the other being Watford)

If Peterborough remember walking round the Town Centre through a Department Store carrying the full length of the Trains blue towel above our heads that someone decided to relieve the Train of

[Claytons Left Boot]

I went on the League Liner in the 74/75 season. For those going to the game, both ends behind the goals still appear to be like smaller versions of the old Darwen End, ie. terracing and a large, not too high roof. The atmosphere should be good with a decent following.

[bazza]

Great preview, m1st. The paragraph below demonstrates the confusion caused by people who, in their "wisdom", changed the names of the original four divisions.

HISTORY.

So, just as we became founder-members of the Premier League, Peterborough took our place in Football League Division 1 [as the old Division 2 was re-named in 1992]. They only remained there for a couple of seasons before being relegated back to what was by then called Football League Division 2 [“Division 3-really” to old fogeys like me]. They stayed there for three seasons before being relegated to the bottom tier of League football. After three seasons at that level, they returned to Football League Division 2, where they stayed for five seasons. In 2005, they were relegated once more to what was by then known as League Two [a.k.a. “Division 4-really”].

I have contacted the producers of the Rovers' matchday programme three times in the past three years to ask them to change the Rovers Honours List but as yet they haven't. They have us as winning Division One in 1912 and 1914 and being runners-up in 2001. This denigrates the titles of 1912 and 1914 when we were champions of all England; equivalent to being modern day Premier League Champions.

Back on topic; don't forget kick-off is 17:20

[RevidgeBlue]

Had two trips on the League Liner, was it the Peterborough game I went to on it? (definitely the other being Watford)

If Peterborough remember walking round the Town Centre through a Department Store carrying the full length of the Trains blue towel above our heads that someone decided to relieve the Train of

I seem to remember 2 trips on the League Liner to Watford like you say and Chesterfield?

Don't know if it was in the same season. Seem to remember Watford was on a completely waterlogged pitch and should have been aba doned.

[USABlue]

I went on the League Liner in the 74/75 season. For those going to the game, both ends behind the goals still appear to be like smaller versions of the old Darwen End, ie. terracing and a large, not too high roof. The atmosphere should be good with a decent following.

I was on that too, (I think) but I could have swore we won. I Remember listening to Gordon Lee on the way back I was totally in awe, mesmerized.

[roversfan99]

Robinson

Henley Dann Givet Mn Olsson

Murphy Etuhu

Simon Rochina Nunes

Rhodes

I would probably go for that team assuming Givet is back. I was impressed with the way Etuhu mainly sat and Murphy was then allowed to probe Birmingham as it opened up so much space. I would want the attacking trio to get forward as much as possible to ensure Rhodes doesn't become isolated, with Nunes in particular aiming to try and beat his man and get some early crosses in instead of looking to just dive.

[yoda]

I was on that too, (I think) but I could have swore we won. I Remember listening to Gordon Lee on the way back I was totally in awe, mesmerized.

Are you remembering Port Vale away, thousands were listening to Gordon Lee on the radio in the carpark behind the away end after the game, One run by Metalfe was particularly good, he seemed to take on the entire Port Vale team twice and beat them.

I also remember all the balls from a pubs pool table being juggled on the way to the ground before the match, most of the group had come on the train but not sure if it was the league liner. Great day out, except for the lad who fell off the away end onto a burger bar!

[jim mk2]

Never been to London Road so will be making the long trek down for what is an important game for Rovers and Berg.

After gleaning 2 points from 9 in his first three matches, Berg desperately needs a win. A draw is simply unacceptable if he is to keep the goodwill of fans who have placed so much faith in him.

From all accounts he has got the players performing to a higher standard and now he needs to get a victory under his belt. For my part, I will be happy with a poor performance if we head back north with 3 points.

[Kelbo]

Never been to London Road so will be making the long trek down for what is an important game for Rovers and Berg.

After gleaning 2 points from 9 in his first three matches, Berg desperately needs a win. A draw is simply unacceptable if he is to keep the goodwill of fans who have placed so much faith in him.

From all accounts he has got the players performing to a higher standard and now he needs to get a victory under his belt. For my part, I will be happy with a poor performance if we head back north with 3 points.

Peterborough are very much an attacking side, we will have to be careful but they do concede, heres hoping!

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Well this is the game that really hammers home what division we're in...similar to Newcastle vs Scunthorpe.

No game is a must-win till April/May but we really should be winning these games if we want to get promoted.

Added fitness, confidence and actual work on the training ground means I am optimistic...and I think we're on Sky as well.

[chris_h]

Well this is the game that really hammers home what division we're in...similar to Newcastle vs Scunthorpe.

No game is a must-win till April/May but we really should be winning these games if we want to get promoted.

Added fitness, confidence and actual work on the training ground means I am optimistic...and I think we're on Sky as well.

It's depressing isn't it? In and out with three points please and lets pretend we were never there.

[Derbyshire Blue]

Are you remembering Port Vale away, thousands were listening to Gordon Lee on the radio in the carpark behind the away end after the game, One run by Metalfe was particularly good, he seemed to take on the entire Port Vale team twice and beat them.

I also remember all the balls from a pubs pool table being juggled on the way to the ground before the match, most of the group had come on the train but not sure if it was the league liner. Great day out, except for the lad who fell off the away end onto a burger bar!

The Train to Port Vale was just a regular football special, all on the pitch after the 4:1 win to hear Gordon Lee confirm from the Stand that we'd won promotion

[yoda]

The Train to Port Vale was just a regular football special, all on the pitch after the 4:1 win to hear Gordon Lee confirm from the Stand that we'd won promotion

yep, I remember a delay while late results came in, nail biting

[Ewood Spark]

I seem to remember 2 trips on the League Liner to Watford like you say and Chesterfield?

We defiantly took a 'special' train to Chesterfield in 1980 ... the season we were promoted under Kendall.

[philipl]

Excellent preview.

Is this a live game on TV?

Rovers really need to lay the Posh bogey and win this one.

[matduggy]

Going to this one. Does anyone know how Peterborough got their nickname Posh? All I can think of is "Port out, Starboard home".

[Clitherover]

Which of our players, from what you've read, will be a threat to Peterborough?

Have to say, all of them, Rhodes is a good addition to your team (even though he came to you from Huddersfailed), and you still have multiple players that would hold their own in the Premier League.

I see Huddersfield are popular and well regarded by fans of other clubs.

With the greatest of respect to Posh, they are amongst the weaker teams in the division and I'm expecting Berg to pick up his first win as Rovers manager.

[jim mk2]

Going to this one. Does anyone know how Peterborough got their nickname Posh? All I can think of is "Port out, Starboard home".

From wikipedia

Peterborough United are nicknamed "The Posh", a moniker coined in 1921, after the then manager of Fletton United was reported to say he was "Looking for posh players for a posh new team". When Fletton United looked to join the Southern League in 1923 they added Peterborough to their name to form Peterborough & Fletton United, in an attempt to gain the backing of businesses in Peterborough. Peterborough & Fletton United went bankrupt in Oct 1932 so the current club is the third to be known as The Posh.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Anything other than three points is unacceptable in my opinion.

[Gav]

Anything other than three points is unacceptable in my opinion.

I understand the sentiments SG, but you've got to remember these players have been under that lying swine for so long that most have forgotten how to do even the simplest of things.

That said, we'll have to much for Peterborough, 2-0.

[philipl]

Peterborough are one of those enthusiastic sorts of teams that can massively raise their game for the big occasion. This won't be a stroll in the park by any means.

[yoda]

Peterborough are one of those enthusiastic sorts of teams that can massively raise their game for the big occasion. This won't be a stroll in the park by any means.

Lets hope strolling in/on the park left with coco

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Fair point Gav but I would now like us to start converting these draws into wins,especially (with all due respect) against one of this league's weaker sides.