[Archived] Did the FA brush us under the carpet?

[Glenn]

Whilst working on something unrelated, I stumbled across the fact that it's 6 months to the day since BRFCAG presented their dossier to Richard Scudamore. I know the rationale at the time was that it's contents would be kept secret for a period to allow the Premier League to investigate it unhindered, but after 6 months without a peep from them do people feel the Premier League are still looking into it or that's it's all been swept under the carpet?

This isn't a call for the dossier contents to be made public (I don't think much good will come from that) or a dig at BRFCAG (who's actions on this matter ensured BRFC and Kentaro kept each other at arms length, at the very least), but a discussion on whether the Premier League have banked on relegation, a new manager and the passage of time has meaning the whole issue can be forgotten about?

[yoda]

Whilst working on something unrelated, I stumbled across the fact that it's 6 months to the day since BRFCAG presented their dossier to Richard Scudamore. I know the rationale at the time was that it's contents would be kept secret for a period to allow the Premier League to investigate it unhindered, but after 6 months without a peep from them do people feel the Premier League are still looking into it or that's it's all been swept under the carpet?

This isn't a call for the dossier contents to be made public (I don't think much good will come from that) or a dig at BRFCAG (who's actions on this matter ensured BRFC and Kentaro kept each other at arms length, at the very least), but a discussion on whether the Premier League have banked on relegation, a new manager and the passage of time has meaning the whole issue can be forgotten about?

As soon as the FA got their collective filthy mits on the dossier they probably went into save arse mode

[arbitro]

I would dearly love to know exactly what it was they may have swept under the carpet. Surely had there been strong evidence of wrong doings then they would have been duty bound to act. Or was it all innuendo?

[RoverScot]

Depends on what was in the dossier. I suspect the first 4 months with Kentaro advising the Walkers Trust and then being advisers to the Venkys was the significant portion of it. Kean isn't the manager now so I don't know how the theories about ownership fit in either.

I don't think we are the only team to suffer with the influence of agents but it was particularly devastating when the Rao family were acting so naively.

As for whether the FA should act, Philipl was a key figure handing over the dossier but has differing theories over what was going wrong. This suggests there wasn't a smoking gun but scattered peculiarities and irregularities.

[Stuart]

I would dearly love to know exactly what it was they may have swept under the carpet. Surely had there been strong evidence of wrong doings then they would have been duty bound to act. Or was it all innuendo?

I would hazard that its nothing that hasn't already been rumoured, hinted at, or even discussed to death on here and twitter - perhaps with the exception of the Scottish gangster stuff - only with some "near proof" included.

Under rug swept sounds about what I'd expect from foot all's governing bodies.

[Amo]

There's more pressing matters. Like who called who a choc-ice.

[JAL]

Wouldnt it help if this dossier was public knowledge then we could have more of a say about it, or would that embarass the people behind it.

[philipl]

Must admit that I am now deeply sceptical of the entire football administration.

As Topman says, the FA reacts to trivia and superficiality. If they want to be appalled, just stick a lip reader onto any of the professional matches they ostensibly supervise.

The Premier and Football Leagues are owners' clubs- no more no less. Scudamore was very frank with us about that and was equally clear that when he takes action against one owner, others ring him up complaining.

At the end of the day it comes down to perceptions. There are four coincidences, one I know is unambiguously documented by the dossier, another is unambiguously documented by the Premier League themselves, one is in the hands of a TV company, another in the hands of a newspaper. Put the four together and you don't even need to listen to what people are saying in India and it is pretty clear that certain people ought to have an awful lot to answer for.

On the other hand if you are running an owners' club you look at all this and say the two proven facts are not directly linked in the narrowest definition you can draw. The rest is "circumstantial" or supporter gossip. You ring up someone in India telling them you are from the Premier League and all of a sudden their story becomes a lot more ambiguous compared with what they were saying to Rovers fans- they have got nothing to gain from being a star witness in England against fellow Indians. And there is more which if you treat seriously could open up an enormous can of worms and bring the whole gravy train to an end. After all if Rovers results last season are in any way in doubt, United and not City might have won the Premier League.

Since the dossier went in, there were very strong indications that this summer's transfer dealings might not have been all that they seemed. That has passed but let's see what some of the numbers in the accounts show when finally revealed in March 2014. Of course the summer window has the advantage of straddling two accounting years so it will be relatively easy to spread/hide extraneous payments if there were any. And there have been other rumours/stories since the dossier not least about the backdrops to the managerial appointment "process" which miraculously has accidentally produced a strong-minded independently-willed football man as our new boss.

So I don't know.

I am a great believer in serendipidity and I think there have been so many mis-steps that someone will accidentally let a cat or two out of the bag. If the right or wrong journalist depending on your viewpoint is watching when a cat jumps, the PL/FL/FA will be scrambling to show they really were taking it all very seriously after all.

[Stuart]

The Premier and Football Leagues are owners' clubs- no more no less. Scudamore was very frank with us about that and was equally clear that when he takes action against one owner, others ring him up complaining.

what a keaning joke. Except that it's not a joke.

It's an owners' club alright, that is, whilst the "prize" money is being handed out and sponsorship is rolling in.

Funny how it becomes a fans' club when the sanctions are brought and the book is thrown at the "FC". Just ask Luton or Pompey supporters amongst others.

[Kelbo]

I ask one question here, since the dossier, we have had a more hands on approach in the UK, a Chairman appointed and a board UK based, then we got Shebby, wonder if the dossier forced Venkys into action? plus we now have a new manager!!

[Pedro]

All of this is my personal opinion, not based on anything I know. I personally think that people saw money to be made in the usual way that they made it but were given a lot more freedom (too much) to make it - I also don't see this as breaking any laws. I also think that the first transfer window showed some really good business and had the manager been a better one, we might have shot up the table and hung on to the likes of Jermaine Jones, Santa Cruz and later, Chris Samba.

I see someone who slyed their way into a well-paid job, one that they weren't qualified enough for but had possibly craftily agreed a contract that guaranteed themselves time and a payrise if they simply kept Rovers in the Premier League for the 2011-12 season. The old guard (board and players) and those with experience could quickly see how it was going to pan out but them kicking up a fuss was deemed as undermining the boss/Madam. I think the owners were very naive and partially charmed by the people they shouldn't have trusted. I think that those that they trusted, are trusted no more.

[PAFELL]

I ask one question here, since the dossier, we have had a more hands on approach in the UK, a Chairman appointed and a board UK based, then we got Shebby, wonder if the dossier forced Venkys into action? plus we now have a new manager!!

Basically ' sort yourselves out or else'. dealt with, but not publicly. Having done so, issues finished in the minds of authorities etc. Shred dossier, dismiss those who presented it.

[perthblue02]

Who cares it's only little Blackburn Rovers, been punching above their weight for far too long, placid supporter base (they did get that one wrong didn't they) , owners who came to be renowned as idiots in the footballing world , ideal takeover material to make a quick killing, very little commercial value in the bigger picture .

An Indian Poultry producer decided to buy a football club with no help from anybody

The Indian poultry giant rid themselves of anybody who could possibly stop any "plan" that was not presented to them by a third party, it was their own ideas after studying the world game

The Premier League is still seen as the most wholesome, exciting and richest league in the world,

A few Agents made a few quid, Footballing Agencies or Agents can still not own a football club (legally),

The FA are still raking in millions from their FA Cup and England International overseas television money arranged by a brilliant footballing agency /media provider ,

Burnley Bob still gets to play with his FA mates, although only communicates via semaphore since losing his voice,

Alan Partridge got the job he and his business deserved after his fantastic PR work on behalf of himself and his Scottish winning horse, and has now got his mate to play with

An up and coming Scottish coach got riches he could only dream of and that's not taking any "bonuses" into account just a basic wage, also became a star on youtube

A small town football club achieved relegation at the second time of asking whilst making some punters very happy

Journeymen footballers (in some cases son's of people involved in football) got a chance to play football at a proper club and make breathtaking world class tackles..

The leading provider of Premier League Action continued to express its virtues in a totally unbalanced way with tv pundits from a wide range of agencies.whilst providing a vehicle for harrowing drama script's written by people within the game.

A group of vile nasty vindictive supporters who dared to tarnish the Premier Leagues family image got put in their place

Nothing to see here , move on and just be grateful that we may be allowed to play with the big boys again next season.

[John]

Regardless of whether anything criminal has gone on, it does not mean it is right.

Certain individuals have literally taken the p**s out of our club and also made a huge financial killing whilst at it, sickening.

[TBTF]

Must admit that I am now deeply sceptical of the entire football administration.

As Topman says, the FA reacts to trivia and superficiality. If they want to be appalled, just stick a lip reader onto any of the professional matches they ostensibly supervise.

The Premier and Football Leagues are owners' clubs- no more no less. Scudamore was very frank with us about that and was equally clear that when he takes action against one owner, others ring him up complaining.

At the end of the day it comes down to perceptions. There are four coincidences, one I know is unambiguously documented by the dossier, another is unambiguously documented by the Premier League themselves, one is in the hands of a TV company, another in the hands of a newspaper. Put the four together and you don't even need to listen to what people are saying in India and it is pretty clear that certain people ought to have an awful lot to answer for.

On the other hand if you are running an owners' club you look at all this and say the two proven facts are not directly linked in the narrowest definition you can draw. The rest is "circumstantial" or supporter gossip. You ring up someone in India telling them you are from the Premier League and all of a sudden their story becomes a lot more ambiguous compared with what they were saying to Rovers fans- they have got nothing to gain from being a star witness in England against fellow Indians. And there is more which if you treat seriously could open up an enormous can of worms and bring the whole gravy train to an end. After all if Rovers results last season are in any way in doubt, United and not City might have won the Premier League.

Since the dossier went in, there were very strong indications that this summer's transfer dealings might not have been all that they seemed. That has passed but let's see what some of the numbers in the accounts show when finally revealed in March 2014. Of course the summer window has the advantage of straddling two accounting years so it will be relatively easy to spread/hide extraneous payments if there were any. And there have been other rumours/stories since the dossier not least about the backdrops to the managerial appointment "process" which miraculously has accidentally produced a strong-minded independently-willed football man as our new boss.

So I don't know.

I am a great believer in serendipidity and I think there have been so many mis-steps that someone will accidentally let a cat or two out of the bag. If the right or wrong journalist depending on your viewpoint is watching when a cat jumps, the PL/FL/FA will be scrambling to show they really were taking it all very seriously after all.

Would be quite interesting to see what back filling will go on with the PL if we were to go up next May.

But, But.....

we have all been following one urban myth after another to such an extent that anything that anybody wanted to make up basically turns into fact largely because there has been nobody willing to put it to bed from within the Club.And you really do have to think there is an awful lot wrong with our club.That doesn't mean it is illegal or actionable.Basically if owners and directors take the p1ss out the fans mercilessly for 2 years and line their own pockets with the blessing of the owners there is not much anybody can do about it.

As fans it makes you want to be violently ill on a regular basis and become disaffected and angry towards your club and fellow fans.Almost a civil war if you like.And essentially thats what has happened.Fans have protested , hurled abuse, formed groups -all sorts but you cannot break the ranks of the owners.All you can do is what some have chosen to do and thats vote with your feet.

There are that many journos and TV investiagtion bodies that if there really was any credibility in any of the ''smoking guns'' that are supposedly with various journos ,newspapers, tv companies, etc etc then i am positive they wouldnt hesitate to act and get it very very public.Its what they love to expose.

The only conclusions we must draw are that despite the actions , behaviours and greed shown by people in authority at our club and the vile hatred it has caused us -none of it is illegal or actionable however close to the wire it has come.

We as fans have the ultimate right to form our opinions -we either walk away and accept that we will not support these people or because we love the badge we stick with it through thick and thin. Out of the 20,000 voting in Summer 2012 , 13000 decided reluctantly to stick and 7000 decided enough was enough.

But its safe to say nothing will happen through the official channels.

What is there to lose in bringing this information to light through local journos then and letting us all see whats there??

[PAFELL]

Would be quite interesting to see what back filling will go on with the PL if we were to go up next May.

But, But.....

we have all been following one urban myth after another to such an extent that anything that anybody wanted to make up basically turns into fact largely because there has been nobody willing to put it to bed from within the Club.And you really do have to think there is an awful lot wrong with our club.That doesn't mean it is illegal or actionable.Basically if owners and directors take the p1ss out the fans mercilessly for 2 years and line their own pockets with the blessing of the owners there is not much anybody can do about it.

As fans it makes you want to be violently ill on a regular basis and become disaffected and angry towards your club and fellow fans.Almost a civil war if you like.And essentially thats what has happened.Fans have protested , hurled abuse, formed groups -all sorts but you cannot break the ranks of the owners.All you can do is what some have chosen to do and thats vote with your feet.

There are that many journos and TV investiagtion bodies that if there really was any credibility in any of the ''smoking guns'' that are supposedly with various journos ,newspapers, tv companies, etc etc then i am positive they wouldnt hesitate to act and get it very very public.Its what they love to expose.

The only conclusions we must draw are that despite the actions , behaviours and greed shown by people in authority at our club and the vile hatred it has caused us -none of it is illegal or actionable however close to the wire it has come.

We as fans have the ultimate right to form our opinions -we either walk away and accept that we will not support these people or because we love the badge we stick with it through thick and thin. Out of the 20,000 voting in Summer 2012 , 13000 decided reluctantly to stick and 7000 decided enough was enough.

But its safe to say nothing will happen through the official channels.

What is there to lose in bringing this information to light through local journos then and letting us all see whats there??

Maybe a fair point that. Others with greater resources than either folk on here or the various groups, have looked into things at the club. As nothing of an illegal nature has yet to be published by any of these. It makes you wonder if all the rumours we have heard over the past few years, are just that, rumours without foundation.

Even if something illegal was going on, the prem and the FA, FL etc etc may want to keep it quiet for the sake of the game in this country.

But would be hard to keep some journo sitting on their story, quiet. It would be a major scoop for them. It would be one huge conspiracy tale to get all in the media to sit on what they know, what their investigations have discovered.

Maybe there is no story apart from the venkys sheer ignorance and stupidity. But until somebody spills what they know and not what they think they no. We are non the wiser. Just be thankful we still have a club to support.

[Stuart]

Unless the media are in on it!

[philipl]

It is possible that there are unrelated coincidences but whenever I have told the Rovers story to a lawyer with all the names hidden and even the industry changed, they all reach the conclusion that our ownership is or was not what it seemed.

[john.leigh]

Thanks for typing all this Pedro - saved me the time & I couldn't have put it any better

All of this is my personal opinion, not based on anything I know. I personally think that people saw money to be made in the usual way that they made it but were given a lot more freedom (too much) to make it - I also don't see this as breaking any laws. I also think that the first transfer window showed some really good business and had the manager been a better one, we might have shot up the table and hung on to the likes of Jermaine Jones, Santa Cruz and later, Chris Samba.

I see someone who slyed their way into a well-paid job, one that they weren't qualified enough for but had possibly craftily agreed a contract that guaranteed themselves time and a payrise if they simply kept Rovers in the Premier League for the 2011-12 season. The old guard (board and players) and those with experience could quickly see how it was going to pan out but them kicking up a fuss was deemed as undermining the boss/Madam. I think the owners were very naive and partially charmed by the people they shouldn't have trusted. I think that those that they trusted, are trusted no more.

[RevidgeBlue]

Whilst working on something unrelated, I stumbled across the fact that it's 6 months to the day since BRFCAG presented their dossier to Richard Scudamore. I know the rationale at the time was that it's contents would be kept secret for a period to allow the Premier League to investigate it unhindered, but after 6 months without a peep from them do people feel the Premier League are still looking into it or that's it's all been swept under the carpet?

This isn't a call for the dossier contents to be made public (I don't think much good will come from that) or a dig at BRFCAG (who's actions on this matter ensured BRFC and Kentaro kept each other at arms length, at the very least), but a discussion on whether the Premier League have banked on relegation, a new manager and the passage of time has meaning the whole issue can be forgotten about?

There's a far more simple explanation Glenn.

There's nothing more to it than the Rao's never having run a football Club before and making a complete mess of it.

And that there's nothing for the Premier League to take action over.

[RevidgeBlue]

It is possible that there are unrelated coincidences but whenever I have told the Rovers story to a lawyer with all the names hidden and even the industry changed, they all reach the conclusion that our ownership is or was not what it seemed.

Here we go again,"I've spoken to an unnamed person about a hypothetical situation who says blah blah blah."

Hope it's someone more reliable than the person who allegedly gave you advice on Kean's potential constructive dismissal claim because I don't think you would find too many employment lawyers agreeing with him/her on that one.

[RevidgeBlue]

Basically if owners and directors take the p1ss out the fans mercilessly for 2 years and line their own pockets with the blessing of the owners there is not much anybody can do about it.

What is there to lose in bringing this information to light through local journos then and letting us all see whats there??

1) Who's been lining their own pockets? I thought you said last week that we were losing shedloads of money. And before anyone says "agents", I presume there were also agents' fees payable and pockets lined (not illegally) when we signed the likes of Yorke, Cole, Barry Ferguson, Amoruso, Chimbonda, E.H. Diouf, Van Heerden, Harold Goulon, Linganzi etc. etc. It's as if people think agents' fees only came into existence when the Rao's took over the Club.

2) Nothing whatsoever. I I've been saying for a long time that if there is any actual evidence of any wrongdoing it's in everyone's interest to get it out into the open as soon as possible. I can only assume that because no-one seems prepared to do that the "evidence" is so weak that people would be rolling around the floor laughing if it was made public. And that is certainly the impresssion conveyed by Philip's extraordinary ramblings.

[Stuart]

It's as if people think agents' fees only came into existence when the Rao's took over the Club.

In terms of the agents fees openly talked about in the Rochina deal, then it's possible they did (for Rovers at least).

And this is the one we know about; who knows how much the Anderson, Ribeiro, Formica deals involved...

[OJRovers]

The Venkys London Limited accounts have STILL not been filed.

Its gone past being suspicious, why not just file them?

Rovers auditors (Deloitte I think) could put them together in a hour. That is unless they couldn't substantiate some of the numbers, bearing in mind that the only numbers in there are the purchase of the club and more importantly how that was funded.

[TBTF]

In terms of the agents fees openly talked about in the Rochina deal, then it's possible they did (for Rovers at least).

And this is the one we know about; who knows how much the Anderson, Ribeiro, Formica deals involved...

Correct Stuart.Also the amount of things which are ''charged to the Club'' would make the average fan vomit though again this is probably something thats gone on long before Venkys came to Town.Football Clubs in general Revidge have long been regarded as personal tax free slush funds for owners and officers to run their personal lives/costs through and to think those legions of people associated with the Club (particularly in the last 2 years ) were doing it for any other reason than to line their own pockets/jump aboard the gravy train is naive.

Alternatively Rev do you think every pound is carefully allocated and budgeted down Ewood way?You seem to take exception to the notion that things may not always be whiter than white.

And i still think we are losing money hand over fist , yes.Mr Cryer's Q&A in the LT this weekend once again alluded to that fact.