[Archived] Did the FA brush us under the carpet?

[OJRovers]

Agents' fees for 2011/12 are out next week.

[LeChuck]

In terms of the agents fees openly talked about in the Rochina deal, then it's possible they did (for Rovers at least).

And this is the one we know about; who knows how much the Anderson, Ribeiro, Formica deals involved...

Nothing for the authorities to get involved with there though. Anderson was involved with the cluster of signings Man City made after they were taken over and appointed Sven - mades millions and millions apparently. It's a horrible part of the game but nothing that needs investigating.

Isn't it more likely that there is nothing to investigate, rather than information being swept under the carpet? The FA can't stop owners making stupid decisions.

[philipl]

I am 75% sure there have been events at Rovers which the authorities should and could have acted on if their own rules had any integrity.

With regards to why material has not and might not be published, the following all apply:

- there are people whom credibly hold documentation which is extremely damning but for whatever reason have not been willing to let it go forwards for publication

- I am aware of people believing they have been threatened to obtain their silence. If illegal betting has been taking place I cannot blame these people for keeping quiet given the ruthless reputation of people involved in those activities

- two pieces of evidence have been obtained in circumstances which could be inadmissable in Court. It doesn't alter the facts uncovered but it does mean the authorities are stymied from using the material which is now in their hands

- Legal letters have been sent out from he who shall be nameless. Anyone- a message board, a supporters group, a newspaper, a TV station or the football authorities know that the lawyers will be involved hard and early if anything appears in public. This has resulted in a very severe level of self-censorship for self-preservation.

[Mercer]

Agents' fees for 2011/12 are out next week.

Reported agents' fees for Rovers include:

• 2008/09 £1.6million
  
• 2009/10 £1.6million
  
• 2010/11 £4.2million
  

http://www.mirrorfoo...icle641525.html

http://www2.premierl...ees-2010-11.pdf

2010/11 is Venky's 1st year of ownership and I don't think many will be too surprised to see a 163% increase !

In fact, I was surprised at the reported £4.2m, expecting it to be a tad higher especially given the alleged scale of costs on the Rochina deal alone !

What is interesting is that our reported 2010/11 cost was broadly the same as Arsenal and Manchester United and given the increase over the two previous years, might suggest that we have become less economically efficient at doing deals.

[philipl]

2008/9 and 2009/10 were both £0.6m in my recollection.

[Stuart]

Nothing for the authorities to get involved with there though. Anderson was involved with the cluster of signings Man City made after they were taken over and appointed Sven - mades millions and millions apparently. It's a horrible part of the game but nothing that needs investigating.

Isn't it more likely that there is nothing to investigate, rather than information being swept under the carpet? The FA can't stop owners making stupid decisions.

Very likely LeC but my point was in answer to the idea that agents only got involved when the Raos took over. I'm sure they didn't but I believe that the kinds of percentages in agents fees paid out in the last 2 years would NOT have been allowed under JW.

[LeChuck]

Very likely LeC but my point was in answer to the idea that agents only got involved when the Raos took over. I'm sure they didn't but I believe that the kinds of percentages in agents fees paid out in the last 2 years would NOT have been allowed under JW.

Oh no of course, I don't doubt our spending on agents will have gone up. I just meant that's nothing for the authorities to investigate, unless they suspect wrong doing.

It's rubbish management to pay an agency loads of money to find new recruits for a business, but it's not for the FA to get involved in.

[RevidgeBlue]

Very likely LeC but my point was in answer to the idea that agents only got involved when the Raos took over. I'm sure they didn't but I believe that the kinds of percentages in agents fees paid out in the last 2 years would NOT have been allowed under JW.

Whilst I wouldn't necessarily condone a huge jump in agents fees I think you have to balance the bare figures against the quality of player bought in. I can't believe you've raised the Rochina example again earlier, bringing him in for a total fee of 2m was an exceptional piece of business for us imo whether or not the agent got 600k of that. As long as the payment to the agent was above board and within the rules I can't see the problem at all. I tell you what I wish the same bloke could find us another 2-3 players as good as Rochina in different positions for 1.4m and I think we should be absolutely delighted imo to pay him 600k per player. The agents' figure in the books would look a bit skewed at the end of the season but you'd have quality players with potential resale value of 20 - 30 m on the books.

Conversely, if you spend 5k bringing someone like Goodwillie that's money completely wasted imo.

[Amo]

How does one become a football agent?

There must be an 'Idiots Guide' on Amazon or something. Foreword by Jerome Anderson.

[RevidgeBlue]

How does one become a football agent?

There must be an 'Idiots Guide' on Amazon or something. Foreword by Jerome Anderson.

It's incredibly easy to become an agent I believe. I looked it up out of curiosity a while ago. From memory you pay a relatively modest fee attend a course at the FA and pass their exam. Then all you do is take out the appropriate professional indemnity insurance and you're away. You probably have to pass a CRB check as well. All the info is on the FA website.

That's the easy bit. I'd assume the hard bit is attracting any clients.

[Neil Weaver]

Whilst I wouldn't necessarily condone a huge jump in agents fees I think you have to balance the bare figures against the quality of player bought in. I can't believe you've raised the Rochina example again earlier, bringing him in for a total fee of 2m was an exceptional piece of business for us imo whether or not the agent got 600k of that. As long as the payment to the agent was above board and within the rules I can't see the problem at all. I tell you what I wish the same bloke could find us another 2-3 players as good as Rochina in different positions for 1.4m and I think we should be absolutely delighted imo to pay him 600k per player. The agents' figure in the books would look a bit skewed at the end of the season but you'd have quality players with potential resale value of 20 - 30 m on the books.

Conversely, if you spend 5k bringing someone like Goodwillie that's money completely wasted imo.

Rev, would you have the same view if the fee was 400k and the agent's fee 1.6 million?

[Brownie]

As is widely reported , JA brought in Rochina J Jones and Formica in the january window he was advising . Anybody think they were poor signings ? Its also a shame he wasn't allowed to bring Witsel here for the reported 6.5 million seeing that he has recently been transferred for 20+ million in the summer

[RevidgeBlue]

Rev, would you have the same view if the fee was 400k and the agent's fee 1.6 million?

I'd have to take a view on the deal as a whole and of course I would - if I considered the player was good enough. To turn your question round, would you turn down Messi on a free if the "catch" was you had to pay the agent 5m?

[JAL]

As is widely reported , JA brought in Rochina J Jones and Formica in the january window he was advising . Anybody think they were poor signings ? Its also a shame he wasn't allowed to bring Witsel here for the reported 6.5 million seeing that he has recently been transferred for 20+ million in the summer

Formica most definitely, the good one here was the loan signing, pity it was'nt permanent.

[Mullionvagrant]

Formica most definitely, the good one here was the loan signing, pity it was'nt permanent.

Don't forget we also brought in Myles. A (Shame he's out on loan).

[den]

Rev, would you have the same view if the fee was 400k and the agent's fee 1.6 million?

Don't split hairs Neil.

[TBTF]

Don't forget we also brought in Myles. A (Shame he's out on loan).

Yea and now we have brought in 6 completely crap never to be seen again Portugese and a Polish goalie-nobody batting an eyelid about that though are they?? If they had come whilst JA was in town there would have been murders going on.

Lets get it right -agents are only in it for themselves but the good ones can and do produce >they just have to be managed and Shebby is not the man to do it.I would think Derek Shaw might be a safer pair of hands on that score.

[Mullionvagrant]

Yea and now we have brought in 6 completely crap never to be seen again Portugese and a Polish goalie-nobody batting an eyelid about that though are they?? If they had come whilst JA was in town there would have been murders going on.

Lets get it right -agents are only in it for themselves but the good ones can and do produce >they just have to be managed and Shebby is not the man to do it.I would think Derek Shaw might be a safer pair of hands on that score.

I don't think Fabio Nunes is crap so make that 5!!!!

[Steve Moss]

As is widely reported , JA brought in Rochina J Jones and Formica in the january window he was advising . Anybody think they were poor signings ? Its also a shame he wasn't allowed to bring Witsel here for the reported 6.5 million seeing that he has recently been transferred for 20+ million in the summer

Good business, despite the fees. And Witzel would have been stellar.

What is most objectionable about JA was Kean and his machinations to keep Kean in position. He nearly destroyed the club.

[RevidgeBlue]

Don't split hairs Neil.

If the pricetag of 400k accurately reflected the players ability you wouldn't even entertain it

If you think in reality the player is or will be worth far more you'd give it some thought.

[Stuart]

Whilst I wouldn't necessarily condone a huge jump in agents fees I think you have to balance the bare figures against the quality of player bought in. I can't believe you've raised the Rochina example again earlier, bringing him in for a total fee of 2m was an exceptional piece of business for us imo whether or not the agent got 600k of that. As long as the payment to the agent was above board and within the rules I can't see the problem at all. I tell you what I wish the same bloke could find us another 2-3 players as good as Rochina in different positions for 1.4m and I think we should be absolutely delighted imo to pay him 600k per player. The agents' figure in the books would look a bit skewed at the end of the season but you'd have quality players with potential resale value of 20 - 30 m on the books.

Conversely, if you spend 5k bringing someone like Goodwillie that's money completely wasted imo.

That's as maybe and I understand the 'total cost of acquisition' process but...

...would you trust our erstwhile 'helpers' not to have inserted a similarly 'beneficial' clause when it comes to selling on 'their' discovery?

[TBTF]

I don't think Fabio Nunes is crap so make that 5!!!!

Well i don't think he 'll start many games in the Championship and less so in PL.I think we need more over 90 mins than a couple of crosses whipped in.All for the very reasonable ....er £5k per week???

That said Mullion ,he ain't the worst of the imports!! Henrique/Edinho/Paulo Jorge/Rosado --- and they are probably £1 million a year in wages down the sh1tter.

[RevidgeBlue]

Yea and now we have brought in 6 completely crap never to be seen again Portugese and a Polish goalie-nobody batting an eyelid about that though are they?? If they had come whilst JA was in town there would have been murders going on.

Aye it's not like the good old days when we never signed any players that didn't come off and only signed top liners like Bruno Berner, Maceo Rigters, Julio Santa Cruz, Van Heerden, Linganzi and Goulon!

[TBTF]

Aye it's not like the good old days when we never signed any players that didn't come off and only signed top liners like Bruno Berner, Maceo Rigters, Julio Santa Cruz, Van Heerden, Linganzi and Goulon!

Ha ha !! Great collection that lot. Thats the point though Rev a couple of bad un's linked to JA and the world is about to end whereas the reality is that we've been expert at it for as long as i can remember.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Well i don't think he 'll start many games in the Championship and less so in PL.I think we need more over 90 mins than a couple of crosses whipped in.All for the very reasonable ....er £5k per week???

That said Mullion ,he ain't the worst of the imports!! Henrique/Edinho/Paulo Jorge/Rosado

I saw Jorge pre-season - thought he looked a tidy player and well worth a go. Rosado - played well in his cameo against Huddersfield before needlessly giving the ball away - comes with a good reputation. Edinho - looks to me out of his depth - Henrique - nobody has seen him play in blue and white yet.

Anyone remember Matt Dickens (£250k), Stephen Ireland, Gudmundsson, Lee Makel - to name just a few that were bought in and never made the grade.

I don't know what the obsession is with Portguese players - but Gomes has done ok so far - and Nunes, Jorge and Rosado look worth a gamble. How they develop - who knows - they may just fade away as Matt Dickens, Gudmundsson and Makel did.