[Archived] Venkys London Limited - Accounts

[tomphil]

No. I believe it will be the assets within the accounts. So in simple terms, whatever they use to manufacture their products, e.g. Plant and Machinery, usually being the main assets. I suspect these to be of a substantial amount as VHL would rely heavily upon them for their business to be successful.

So if we don't go up we won't have to sell Jordan Rhodes we'll just sell an Indian egg grading machine instead

[yoda]

The first bit was to outline the consequences if the bank decided to call the loan in. The second part proves that it isn't the case. 4am, cut me some slack!

Not having a go,

looks to me like the venkys are taking the long view though, normal in Asia, not something that western accountants and banks tend to think like.

Someone asked an ex Chinese president recently if he thought that the French revolution was a success, his reply was, it is to early to tell

[Sparky Marky]

rovers made a slight profit , not the £3 million loss per season as it was under the walkers trust .

It also shows venkys have also in these accounts alone given the club a further £12.5 million pound with no agreement for this to be repaid , this is purely a gift . Had these been the walkers trust , it would of been a loan.

That is good enough for me and is consistent with the owners public statement that the club is debt free.

rovers made a slight profit , not the £3 million loss per season as it was under the walkers trust .

It also shows venkys have also in these accounts alone given the club a further £12.5 million pound with no agreement for this to be repaid , this is purely a gift . Had these been the walkers trust , it would of been a loan.

A gift?? They've just put their hands in their pockets and handed it over have they? Does that mean a loss of £9 million without this "gift"?

you see no bad anymore Mullan...you took a job yet?

[yoda]

A gift?? They've just put their hands in their pockets and handed it over have they? Does that mean a loss of £9 million without this "gift"?

you see no bad anymore Mullan...you took a job yet?

Bit over the top, he just saying what is in the accounts

[Sparky Marky]

Bit over the top, he just saying what is in the accounts

He has no way of knowing if its purely a gift or not. It helps Mullan to keep towing the shebby line......

[Blue n White Rover]

He has no way of knowing if its purely a gift or not. It helps Mullan to keep towing the shebby line......

To be fair, it shows in the accounts that the money is capital introduced by the owners. Usually what tends to happen is that they would loan the money to us, like the Walker Trust did, however this is not the case.

[Kamy100]

The key thing is that will they provide the same amount of money next season if we do not go up this season. If they do then no problems but if they can't provide the same amount of funding and we don't go up then the club will still need to find money to meet our huge operating costs (in comparison to other championship clubs).

As for the money invested this season, I still think that the source of the money is a bank loan, which from my very limited understanding of these matters is secured against Venky's India Assets.

[Speedie Dived]

The key thing is that will they provide the same amount of money next season if we do not go up this season. If they do then no problems but if they can't provide the same amount of funding and we don't go up then the club will still need to find money to meet our huge operating costs (in comparison to other championship clubs).

As for the money invested this season, I still think that the source of the money is a bank loan, which from my very limited understanding of these matters is secured against Venky's India Assets.

To maintain the same level they would also have to make £20 million pounds worth of player sales

[Blue n White Rover]

The key thing is that will they provide the same amount of money next season if we do not go up this season. If they do then no problems but if they can't provide the same amount of funding and we don't go up then the club will still need to find money to meet our huge operating costs (in comparison to other championship clubs).

As for the money invested this season, I still think that the source of the money is a bank loan, which from my very limited understanding of these matters is secured against Venky's India Assets.

Again Kamy, if you read the going concern note it clearly states that the owners are more than willing to provide next season if our status is not confirmed in the PL. Forecasts have been drawn up and if needs be, then they would introduce their own money as well as the bank willing to give them more money if and when required.

Going concern tends to look at whether the company can continue to trade in the next 12 months or longer. If memory serves me right, it is page 12 of the accounts.

[John]

So the 'player trading' which effectively got us relegated is now seen as something to be thankful for?

[imy9]

So is Phil 'Armageddon is upon us' correct or Glen?

[Kamy100]

So is Phil 'Armageddon is upon us' correct or Glen?

The answer to that will be revealed next season if we don't go up.

[47er]

Again Kamy, if you read the going concern note it clearly states that the owners are more than willing to provide next season if our status is not confirmed in the PL. Forecasts have been drawn up and if needs be, then they would introduce their own money as well as the bank willing to give them more money if and when required.

Going concern tends to look at whether the company can continue to trade in the next 12 months or longer. If memory serves me right, it is page 12 of the accounts.

They were less than willing when it mattered though or we'd still be up. So why believe them now?

[imy9]

The answer to that will be revealed next season if we don't go up.

But surely at the very least these accounts show that money is being put IN not taken OUT

[jim mk2]

How long are Venky's prepared to "gift" £12.5m to the club each year just to keep it going ? Seems to me a financial crunch is looming next summer if we don't go up. The pressure is on Berg to win promotion this season or we could be stuck at this level or lower for a long time.

[DE.]

But surely at the very least these accounts show that money is being put IN not taken OUT

To be fair there are quite a few owners who have initially put money in only to absolutely rape a club when the time comes that they need repayment. I'll remain cautious until we see what Venky's true intentions are - at this point I'm not sure and these accounts don't really mean a great deal to me.

[philipl]

Bottom line.

Venkys disinvested in players to tune of £20m in their first 17 months.

No way would they have become owners if they had said that is what they were going to do.

And they gave us Kean

[Mercer]

Again Kamy, if you read the going concern note it clearly states that the owners are more than willing to provide next season if our status is not confirmed in the PL. Forecasts have been drawn up and if needs be, then they would introduce their own money as well as the bank willing to give them more money if and when required.

Going concern tends to look at whether the company can continue to trade in the next 12 months or longer. If memory serves me right, it is page 12 of the accounts.

"The amount of additional funding required will be dependent on the net proceeds of any player trading and availability of bank facilities. In view of this the directors have received confirmation from the ultimate parent company (Venkateshwara Hatcheries Pvt Ltd) that it has sufficient funds and is willing to provide such additional financing as may be required to fund the group to the extent necessary for the group to continue to trade and pay its liabilities as and when they become due, for the next 12 months and thereafter for the foreseeable future".

My interpretation of this is:

• That the group will remain dependent upon net player trading continuing to yield a surplus - unfortunately, most of the family jewels have now been sold (Jones, Samba etc).
  
• "Availability of bank facilities" - we don't know how much of the facility remains nor, perhaps more importantly, the bank's 'tipping-point' and, I am pretty certain there will be one !
  
• As to the ultimate parent company being "willing to provide such additional financing as may be required", they really had no other option other than to include this for obvious reasons. Clearly, that position could change dramatically overnight.
  

In reality, you could say that this financial picture is as good as it gets, as since 31 March 2012, it has all been downhill with the club hemorrhaging revenues. Also remember that the position at 31 March 2012 was after player trading surplus of £20million.

Personally, I wouldn't be taken in too much by anyone trying to put a positive spin on these accounts. If you have access to a qualified accountant, either friend or family member, just ask them for an unbiased view.

[OJRovers]

Looking at the post balance sheet events, it says we have made 4.4m net transfer spend, which presumably includes Rhodes net off against n zonzi and Hoillet. Considering we were due in the 6m from man utd in June, then the bank position might not be as bad as some are saying, I'm sure that the weekly losses are making it worse though.

[yoda]

"The amount of additional funding required will be dependent on the net proceeds of any player trading and availability of bank facilities. In view of this the directors have received confirmation from the ultimate parent company (Venkateshwara Hatcheries Pvt Ltd) that it has sufficient funds and is willing to provide such additional financing as may be required to fund the group to the extent necessary for the group to continue to trade and pay its liabilities as and when they become due, for the next 12 months and thereafter for the foreseeable future".

My interpretation of this is:

• That the group will remain dependent upon net player trading continuing to yield a surplus - unfortunately, most of the family jewels have now been sold (Jones, Samba etc).
  
• "Availability of bank facilities" - we don't know how much of the facility remains nor, perhaps more importantly, the bank's 'tipping-point' and, I am pretty certain there will be one !
  
• As to the ultimate parent company being "willing to provide such additional financing as may be required", they really had no other option other than to include this for obvious reasons. Clearly, that position could change dramatically overnight.
  

In reality, you could say that this financial picture is as good as it gets, as since 31 March 2012, it has all been downhill with the club hemorrhaging revenues. Also remember that the position at 31 March 2012 was after player trading surplus of £20million.

Personally, I wouldn't be taken in too much by anyone trying to put a positive spin on these accounts. If you have access to a qualified accountant, either friend or family member, just ask them for an unbiased view.

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Someone has already done that and the accountant said you can't beat the venkys with these accounts

[Mercer]

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Someone has already done that and the accountant said you can't beat the venkys with these accounts

This is not about 'beating' the Venky's as you refer to but is about the operational financial position of our club. As I said, IMO, anyone who thinks our financial position is not serious is simply living in cloud cuckoo land. You only need to read the qualifications that are made under 'Going Concern'. Your friend didn't ask a Turf Accountant in error did he ?

[JAL]

Dress it up however they want it, the bottom line has to be... we are..a Championship side and one thats currently losing over 2 million pounds per month.

.......and for this, they made a small profit out of it the season before.

[yoda]

This is not about 'beating' the Venky's as you refer to but is about the operational financial position of our club. As I said, IMO, anyone who thinks our financial position is not serious is simply living in cloud cuckoo land. You only need to read the qualifications that are made under 'Going Concern'.

It was the accountant I belive that said you can't beat them up over the accounts, the qualification refered to 3.5 mill I belive, the going concern is their statement that they can continue for at least another 12 months, standard accountancy speak I belive, maybe Philipl can confirm

[Mercer]

It was the accountant I belive that said you can't beat them up over the accounts, the qualification refered to 3.5 mill I belive, the going concern is their statement that they can continue for at least another 12 months, standard accountancy speak I belive, maybe Philipl can confirm

The Going Concern qualifications are by no means standard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yoda]

The Going Concern qualifications are by no means standard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Always were when I filed accounts, makes you accountable at that point in time as to the financial ability of the entity to continue.( a bit like a financial MOT)

Don't get me wrong, i am not supporting the venkys but also now having seen the accounts that have been posted, the trust is dead in the water as i said in a thread earlier, so the only way to continue is with the venkys or someone with about 70 mill in their sky rocket to buy the club