[Archived] Burnley v Rovers 2nd December 2012

[Mercer]

They were when he took over - but they aren't now, He's improved them - it's what good managers do.

+1

Spot on.

[Parsonblue]

A dreadful game played out by two poor sides who will both be playing Championship football next season. Shebby is on a different plant if he thinks this club is Premier League bound. Venkys have spent two years dismantling what Jack Walker and Trust built up over the best part of 20 years and the results were there for all to see today. We were no better than Burnley and a point was the least the Clarets deserved. It's hard to see where we go from here as we are nothing more than an average Championship team. An utterly depressing day all round having spent a full day to travel ten miles to watch a desperately poor game.

[Stuart]

What a pathetic comment.

Well you are an expert.

[Blue n White Rover]

Thought Dann was our best player today and pocketed Austin. His girlfriend/wife was sat a few rows behind us with Goodwillie too, and she is an absolute stunner.

Anyway, back to the game, we were poor first half but Henning had it in him to change it around and we were a lot better second half. However, I think he should have left Formica on. He put in a good shift today and should have stayed on, instead was taken off. That led to Burnley exploiting the frail defensive duties of Vuckevic and he was the one that conceded a needless free kick which they scored from.

All in all, a fair result.

[thenodrog]

Football is a results business. Dont get them and youre gone.

Exactly the same in any other business.

Sounds cruel but what other outcomes are;

Keep a manager who is failling so you fail like at his former club.

Hope he turns it around but may have to wait till next year and incur more debt.

Sack get rid... Start over again or sign up a proven winner .

Look I'm just as passionate as all of us. Sorry to be so objective today but its time I have a break from here for a while.

Up the Rovers. Hope we get an outcome which suits us all this season.

My man would be Hughes. Knows a few of the players, aware of the surrondings. Deal till may if he gets us up, he restores his reputation and were in the prem.

Excellent manager that Hughes was for us he won just 1 out of his first nine matches. So if you were in charge you'd have sacked him inside two months and we'd never have had those 4 good years and never have seen the likes of Samba, Benni Mac, RSC, Bentley, Bellamy, Warnock, and Nelsen in the blue and white halves.

.... However I'm quite sure that we'd have played Burnley more.

[Amo]

Fact of the matter is that we're doing worse under Berg this season than we have under Kean or Black.

That's the black n' white of it.

[ABBEY]

Sam Allardyce would win the league with this squad. Because he's a good manager.

Kean managed to get them into the automatic positions and deliver our best start to a season in a long time.

Eric Black managed to pick up enough points to keep us in the top six.

I want Berg to succeed more than those three, but he's not showing us that he's capable of doing so.

like he won the league last season?

[A cup of beans]

A dreadful game played out by two poor sides who will both be playing Championship football next season. Shebby is on a different plant if he thinks this club is Premier League bound. Venkys have spent two years dismantling what Jack Walker and Trust built up over the best part of 20 years and the results were there for all to see today. We were no better than Burnley and a point was the least the Clarets deserved. It's hard to see where we go from here as we are nothing more than an average Championship team. An utterly depressing day all round having spent a full day to travel ten miles to watch a desperately poor game.

Fully agree, Parson. Thoroughly depressing. Rovers were lucky to get away with a point today. But one silver lining, this is as poor a side rovers have had in years and burnley still cant beat us.

[jim mk2]

Well you an the expert.

You're right for once.

A dreadful game played out by two poor sides who will both be playing Championship football next season. Shebby is on a different plant if he thinks this club is Premier League bound. Venkys have spent two years dismantling what Jack Walker and Trust built up over the best part of 20 years and the results were there for all to see today. We were no better than Burnley and a point was the least the Clarets deserved. It's hard to see where we go from here as we are nothing more than an average Championship team. An utterly depressing day all round having spent a full day to travel ten miles to watch a desperately poor game.

I couldn't go today for family reasons but I'll be there at the next game. This current predicament has been building for the past 2 years and the big worry is that our decline is not over yet - not by a long way.

[Blue n White Rover]

like he won the league last season?

Brilliant point. West Ham had as good, if not better, squad than Rovers too.

[ABBEY]

Any player ratings?

Was Dann our man of the match?

CKR for me.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

No it doesn't Batman, it highlights just how much damage was done selling every one of our Premier class players. Kean, Black and Berg have all struggled with this squad.

The game's about players. A manager's influence at a club, is probably 90% down to the players he signs. Really top managers might get a tad more out of a poor squad than others do, but there's a limit to what they can do without the better players.There are too many fans who overestimate a managers tactical influence on a game.

All the best managers have all the best players. Kean didn't relegate us because he was a poor coach, or a poor manager, but because he sold top players and oversaw the recruitment of crap replacements. We still have no idea whether Berg can cut the mustard, but he's currently got no options with his selections.

If that's true then how would you explain the 2nd half of the season, 2 seasons ago, when Kean took over from Allardyce?

Lost Diouf was it? And added Jermaine Jones and Santa Cruz.....we suddenly went from a mid-table side to definitely one of the worst sides in the league.

5 wins (and 3 clean sheets) in 21 games.....out of the 4 sides we beat, 2 sacked their manager within weeks of us beating them, and the other 2 have since sacked their managers and been relegated (West Brom X2, Liverpool, Bolton, Wolves).

Some people on here argue that a manager can make players "over-perform" for their level (or get the best out of them) yet refuse to believe the opposite can happen.

Football isn't about players, it's about tactics......these days anyway.....old-school, motivating managers aren't as successful anymore....you have to be tactically astute, not a Martin O Neill.

Ipswich aren't a relegation-standard side....Jewell made them look like one....McCarthy will most likely keep them up....that's just one example.....the Premier League table isn't gonna be a 1-20 of the strongest sides in the league.

Most commented that Formica played better against P'boro than usual......you didn't believe that Den and said something like why would he look better as he's the same player.....improved fitness, confidence, motivation, game-plan and options for him to pass to are some of the reasons why he had looked better against them and B'ham.

I'll always stand by my assertion we have a very strong squad for this league.....unbalanced sure but enough individual quality to win enough games.....we just need to be organised, motivated properly and able to play at a high-tempo for 90 mins.

Recently....out of our 2 stand-out players imo....our best CB is on the bench and our best winger is wasted at LB....we play a CM on the right wing and close off one side....and either Pedersen or Marcus Olsson on the other side who are league 1 standard at best.....so our main striker who needs service from out wide gets very little.....Murphy doesn't have enough options....and he isn't the kind of player to drive forward with the ball.

Sort out our tactics to get the best out of our players and we should do a lot better.

Whether that will happen is another matter, but that will just mean for me that Berg is another one who is under-performing with our squad....if it continues like this for the next few months....I'll also stand by my assertion that everything will take time and I'm gonna give it another month before properly judging Berg.

[Blue n White Rover]

CKR for me.

Unbelievable passion from him. Looked really up for it and had the right attitude, in contrast to his antics a few weeks ago.

[ABBEY]

anyone notice dunny give robbo a real bollucking fro not catching the ball.

[thenodrog]

No one should feel uncomfortable with the facts.

The facts are simply that Berg is not delivering.

Keep burying your head in the sand !

You may be right and only time will tell but you run the risk of looking a complete knob. I did this when we appointed that goon Paul Ince but the difference was that anybody with an ounce of common sense had known for years that Ince was a tool, as thick as a bar top and there was no way he could manage a Prem team. Even you must admit that Berg is a different kettle of fish altogether which imo put's your neck right on the block. Sure there is a big doubt with his appointment but when you consider the dopes that thought Allardyce was a bad manager and have lost all credibility and respect with subsequent events (as most knew they would) and are now trying desperately to live their foolishness down why do you want to risk forever being tarred with that same brush?

[Amo]

If that's true then how would you explain the 2nd half of the season, 2 seasons ago, when Kean took over from Allardyce?

Lost Diouf was it? And added Jermaine Jones and Santa Cruz.....we suddenly went from a mid-table side to definitely one of the worst sides in the league.

5 wins (and 3 clean sheets) in 21 games.....out of the 4 sides we beat, 2 sacked their manager within weeks of us beating them, and the other 2 have since sacked their managers and been relegated (West Brom X2, Liverpool, Bolton, Wolves).

Some people on here argue that a manager can make players "over-perform" for their level (or get the best out of them) yet refuse to believe the opposite can happen.

Football isn't about players, it's about tactics......these days anyway.....old-school, motivating managers aren't as successful anymore....you have to be tactically astute, not a Martin O Neill.

Ipswich aren't a relegation-standard side....Jewell made them look like one....McCarthy will most likely keep them up....that's just one example.....the Premier League table isn't gonna be a 1-20 of the strongest sides in the league.

Most commented that Formica played better against P'boro than usual......you didn't believe that Den and said something like why would he look better as he's the same player.....improved fitness, confidence, motivation, game-plan and options for him to pass to are some of the reasons why he had looked better against them and B'ham.

I'll always stand by my assertion we have a very strong squad for this league.....unbalanced sure but enough individual quality to win enough games.....we just need to be organised, motivated properly and able to play at a high-tempo for 90 mins.

Recently....out of our 2 stand-out players imo....our best CB is on the bench and our best winger is wasted at LB....we play a CM on the right wing and close off one side....and either Pedersen or Marcus Olsson on the other side who are league 1 standard at best.....so our main striker who needs service from out wide gets very little.....Murphy doesn't have enough options....and he isn't the kind of player to drive forward with the ball.

Sort out our tactics to get the best out of our players and we should do a lot better.

Whether that will happen is another matter, but that will just mean for me that Berg is another one who is under-performing with our squad....if it continues like this for the next few months....I'll also stand by my assertion that everything will take time and I'm gonna give it another month before properly judging Berg.

+1

[booth]

Why should they be? All the players with grit, determination and basic balls were either got rid of by Kean or left of their own accord. The guys that would go toe to toe with Kean and Anderson are the guys that would have been up for it today. We'd have murdered Burnley with samba, Nelsen and N'Zonzi in the ranks not to mention Salgado, the two Jones's and EHD. Sad to say but an East Lancs derby day means little to our assorted ranks of offcumdens, has beens, never will be's and Carlos Kickaballs.

That's exactly what I meant. It's a big worry that if we don't have players in the team totally fired up for a game like this, then how are they expected to be up for any other game? Same against Bolton, one team wanted it and it wasn't Rovers. Every other time we've played against Burnley we've given it all we had no matter whether it was an Pascal Chimbonda, Jason Roberts or Chris Samba, today it didn't seem so.

[thenodrog]

Well you can feck off then.

Cold, dark, damp days at the likes of The Shay, the same at Tranmere on a Friday night, snowy trips to Chesterfied etc - all when Rovers struggling near bottom of old Third Division.

When you see your club being, IMO, destroyed inside 2 mad seasons after 50ish years of support, you are bound to feel real anger.

Nobody regrets the past couple of years more than I do. As far as I am concerned once the Walkers shut the till (as they are entitled) our Prem status was precarious and Allardyce was the best man to keep us up there. Once Big Sam was binned I predicted our demise and not just in divisions but in status too. Our post Walker financial situation will see us decline to those days again. Like it or not that is our natural level given the sixe of the town, it's demography and it's location. Get used to it and just be thankful for the 20 years that we had courtesy of Jack Walker.

[Mercer]

You may be right and only time will tell but you run the risk of looking a complete knob. I did this when we appointed that goon Paul Ince but the difference was that anybody with an ounce of common sense had known for years that Ince was a tool, as thick as a bar top and there was no way he could manage a Prem team. Even you must admit that Berg is a different kettle of fish altogether which imo put's your neck right on the block. Sure there is a big doubt with his appointment but when you consider the dopes that thought Allardyce was a bad manager and have lost all credibility and respect with subsequent events (as most knew they would) and are now trying desperately to live their foolishness down why do you want to risk forever being tarred with that same brush?

Understand your points.

Feels like frustration.

Like everyone, desperately hoped that we would be up, up and away once Kean had gone.

Desperately wanted Berg, or whoever was appointed, to succeed, however, with each passing match, doubts arise about his team selection, substitutions, tactics and motivational powers.

A lot might be subjectivity, however, the one thing that you can't argue with is facts, and the facts are that Berg has got off to a very poor start in terms of points and all the touchy, feely stuff pales into insignificance against the stark measure of results.

I work in a world where results are king and what gets measured gets done !

[Amo]

Nobody regrets the past couple of years more than I do. As far as I am concerned once the Walkers shut the till (as they are entitled) our Prem status was precarious and Allardyce was the best man to keep us up there. Once Big Sam was binned I predicted our demise and not just in divisions but in status too. Our post Walker financial situation will see us decline to those days again. Like it or not that is our natural level given the sixe of the town, it's demography and it's location. Get used to it and just be thankful for the 20 years that we had courtesy of Jack Walker.

You don't think Jack would be spinning in his grave at what his "Trustees" invited upon our club? All of this could have been so easily avoided had the people in charge of Jack's legacy actually cared enough not to sell us down the river.

If this was a biblical tale, they would surely be the Pontius Pilate of our crucifixion.

[TBTF]

+1

I don't think you need to kick your way out of this division but you certainly need some steel in the side and we just haven't got any.Yes our squad has got individuals as good as any club in the league but we lack pace, steel and mental toughness.Midfield is a joke and MGP today was just frankly a puff!!

What is most alarming is that for what we have paid in fees , what we are paying in wages and for how many players we have on our books then Berg has so few real options. This is just nowhere near good enough. Where in gods name are the legions of Portugese that Shebby has brought in?? Its a joke.

Bit early to be taking it out on Berg but 6 points out of 21 tells you we' re nowhere near a promotion team and from all that seems to be factual on this MB you really do fear the worst after Xmas as you cannot see more money being thrown at it .Its emabarrassing and this season was a feck up from the minute they didnt sack him as soon as we went down and then bring Shebby in to oversee it , spend fortunes and then fire the manager and end up 6 weeks later with somebody who was never on anybodys list even a week before he was appointed including Shebby's!!

Its a wholesale disgrace.

[booth]

Nobody regrets the past couple of years more than I do. As far as I am concerned once the Walkers shut the till (as they are entitled) our Prem status was precarious and Allardyce was the best man to keep us up there. Once Big Sam was binned I predicted our demise and not just in divisions but in status too. Our post Walker financial situation will see us decline to those days again. Like it or not that is our natural level given the sixe of the town, it's demography and it's location. Get used to it and just be thankful for the 20 years that we had courtesy of Jack Walker.

Unfortunately I dread to think what Venky's will do if we're still misfiring in the Championship in a couple of years time. I don't think we'll be allowed to simply find our "natural level".

[philipl]

Crikey we drew!

Imagine what this messageboard would have been like if our 33 years rule over the dingles had ended....

[des]

the problem is our midfield which was brought by kean. i9t will take time to fix it and with not much money more time them people think. however we need to stick with berg in time we will be fine

[ABBEY]

That's exactly what I meant. It's a big worry that if we don't have players in the team totally fired up for a game like this, then how are they expected to be up for any other game? Same against Bolton, one team wanted it and it wasn't Rovers. Every other time we've played against Burnley we've given it all we had no matter whether it was an Pascal Chimbonda, Jason Roberts or Chris Samba, today it didn't seem so.

One thing you can't say about today's game was lack of effort and passion . Yes the fittest half was crap but there was plenty of commitment and passion.