[Archived] BRFC Action Group

[mark1875]

On Friday the BRFC Action Group had a couple of meetings with the club, please find the minutes below.

Meeting with Derek Shaw

Meeting with Shebby Singh

[Exiled in Toronto]

Good stuff well done, though I do think another open meeting with Shebby is a terrible idea, I cannot see what good would come from it. Open meeting with Berg would be 100 times more productive

[PAFELL]

On Friday the BRFC Action Group had a couple of meetings with the club, please find the minutes below.

Meeting with Derek Shaw

Meeting with Shebby Singh

why raise the roverstrust with either Shaw or Singh. The trust not likely to see the need to engage with the club.

Anyway, I thought the action group wanted venkys out.

[mark1875]

why raise the roverstrust with either Shaw or Singh. The trust not likely to see the need to engage with the club.

Anyway, I thought the action group wanted venkys out.

Firstly to the answers

1) Supporters asked us to

2) We seek a well run club who engages with supporters openly and transparently and will work towards improving the relations where possible!

Finally to the question of which i am particularly interested in the answer to

1) If they don't see the need to engage/open dialogue with the club, how on earth do they intend to gain a stake of the club??

[mark1875]

Good stuff well done, though I do think another open meeting with Shebby is a terrible idea, I cannot see what good would come from it. Open meeting with Berg would be 100 times more productive

The idea is, he is the guy running the club, supporters have questions for him, let them ask him directly?

The latter is something we are working on

[TBTF]

Firstly to the answers

1) Supporters asked us to

2) We seek a well run club who engages with supporters openly and transparently and will work towards improving the relations where possible!

Finally to the question of which i am particularly interested in the answer to

1) If they don't see the need to engage/open dialogue with the club, how on earth do they intend to gain a stake of the club??

But they have tried and tried to open dialogue with the club but there is nobody there that can do anything meaningful or tell them anything.Its all lip service because until you can speak direct to the morons in Pune Ewood is pointless.To that extent i think BRAG are being sweet talked but the reality is they will always be kept at arms length

[Parsonblue]

why raise the roverstrust with either Shaw or Singh. The trust not likely to see the need to engage with the club.

Anyway, I thought the action group wanted venkys out.

I'm not a supporter of the Action Group but I'm impressed with the way in which they have changed their approach and are now working with the club. I would have thought that getting the club's reaction to the Trust would have been a sensible route to take considering that the Action Group are, I believe, about to vote if they will back the Trust or not as a group. I must admit that as someone who neither supports nor will join any of these groups I think these sets of minutes actually reflect well on the Action Group committee. However I'm not convinced that the owners are doing anything more than paying lip service to the supporters. Nonetheless, Venky's are the only game in town and therefore dialogue is essential for all concerned.

[roverzee]

On February 8th 2012, following a two week long election process which included candidates being nominated to stand for election by the supporters, Andy Woods, Carl Hatch, Glen Mullan, Mark Fish, Michelle Green, Phil Thompson, Rob Crabtree and Simon Littler became the first democratically elected supporters group in the clubs history after being voted in by their fellow supporters.

Please could you make public the full list of candidates for all the elected positions, the number of votes cast for each winning and losing candidate, and the breakdown of the voting and number of votes cast from the 12 international branches.

If any of the committee positions were uncontested (ie there was only one candidate for the position) could you make this clear please?

[SouthAussieRover]

For the benefit of us all delete the whole thread please.

It'll only be rehashed on another thread sooner or later.

[Baz]

Guys, none of you are you doing yourself's any favours.

These kinda arguments are the reason why the majority of Rovers fans won't have anything to do with any of the groups. I know all of you from all of the groups and I know at heart you all have the best interests of the club at heart but these kinda arguments on forums and twitter do no favours to anyone involved in any of the groups.

Also journalists read this forum, some of them are having a good old laugh at Rovers fan politics, one of them told me that it makes Rovers fans look like village idiots.

All of you get in a room, throw away the key and only emerge after you have sorted out these issues in PRIVATE.

The voice of reason.

[rovers_rob]

This message board has reached a new low tonight. I am embarrassed to read some of the childish comments. Honestly, some of you should be ashamed of your behaviour on here. This is exactly why I and thousands like me will NEVER be part of a 'group' .

Couldn't agree more and I hope shebby doesn't waste anymore time on these "groups". It's about time BRFC was about the 11 players on the pitch and not about petty squabbles between a few people.

[glen9mullan]

Please could you make public the full list of candidates for all the elected positions, the number of votes cast for each winning and losing candidate, and the breakdown of the voting and number of votes cast from the 12 international branches.

If any of the committee positions were uncontested (ie there was only one candidate for the position) could you make this clear please?

There was no committee at all, no steering committee.

Every single person had to stand, If I remember correctly between 30 and 40 people stood in total, I'm sure Mark1875 will have the full accurate number.

To stand for the committee, you had to be put forward by one person and vouched for by another five. Once this was done, you had to do a bio which went on our site (Changed sites since then) It was over a couple of week period. There was then online votes cast to allow those who could not attend the open meeting which was held in the Brown Cow.

On the night each candidate had to again take the floor and tell the supporters in the room what they could do, and why they should be elected. The Votes were counted and verfied by 3 independents and the committee was formed.

The positions on the committee were then decided amongst the committee by vote.

Regarding oversea's branches as I have already told you, in 30 of your 36 or so post, These are in their infancy, some are more vibrant than others and they are in their steering stage and require no election until they deem their numbers large enough to hold one. All of them are members of the group regardless of which country they reside in, and its members are on the main membership database.

Regarding how many votes were cast, the exact figures I'm not too sure on, as I never took part in either the online vote, or indeed the ballot in the cow. All votes were counted and verified by independents.

A lot has happened since February/

Regarding the groups stance on Venkys, we are a supporters group as stated a million times, and have opinions which vary across the whole membership base. We have recieved just one email since the summer regarding the groups stance on Venkys from a member, and this was answered straight away. The groups stance is a well run club, and if its not well run, whoever owns it will be made accountable

[roverzee]

There was no committee at all, no steering committee.

Every single person had to stand, If I remember correctly between 30 and 40 people stood in total, I'm sure Mark1875 will have the full accurate number.

To stand for the committee, you had to be put forward by one person and vouched for by another five. Once this was done, you had to do a bio which went on our site (Changed sites since then) It was over a couple of week period. There was then online votes cast to allow those who could not attend the open meeting which was held in the Brown Cow.

On the night each candidate had to again take the floor and tell the supporters in the room what they could do, and why they should be elected. The Votes were counted and verfied by 3 independents and the committee was formed.

The positions on the committee were then decided amongst the committee by vote.

Regarding oversea's branches as I have already told you, in 30 of your 36 or so post, These are in their infancy, some are more vibrant than others and they are in their steering stage and require no election until they deem their numbers large enough to hold one. All of them are members of the group regardless of which country they reside in, and its members are on the main membership database.

Regarding how many votes were cast, the exact figures I'm not too sure on, as I never took part in either the online vote, or indeed the ballot in the cow. All votes were counted and verified by independents.

A lot has happened since February/

Regarding the groups stance on Venkys, we are a supporters group as stated a million times, and have opinions which vary across the whole membership base. We have recieved just one email since the summer regarding the groups stance on Venkys from a member, and this was answered straight away. The groups stance is a well run club, and if its not well run, whoever owns it will be made accountable

That's great if Mark can publish the voting details for the 40 candidates who stood - probably thousands of votes were cast from a membership of 10,000 plus, so look forward to reading all about it.

If 10,000 members, over a 6 month period, have only sent you one email about your stance on Venkys ... aren't you worried? What will people come to the new walk-in centre for, if 9,999 of them can't even be arsed to send an email about the single issue BRAG was formed for?

[woodsybrfc]

You cant make vintage wine with sour grapes maybe its best wait til the grapes mature before making something that leaves a bad taste in your mouth

[Baz]

17) The group wished to clarify if a contingency plan was in place should promotion not happen and Derek explained that the club is monitoring the clubs expenditure and income like every club. Certain aspect of the clubs historical spending has been analysed which has shown areas for improvement and getting the best deal on mundane spending has not always been exercised. More suppliers will now be given the opportunity to put competitive prices to the club, to allow the club to have a broader range of options whilst getting more value for money with like for like services.

I have quoted this from the link.

Could the action group ask for further clarification on the finances since the accounts have now been submitted?

If possible could the fans or a nominated representative of, give a written set of questions to be answered by the club?

Im personally thinking changing our electric suppliers and the like (as intimated by DS above) will turn around the massive operating losses, offset only by player sales.

[glen9mullan]

17) The group wished to clarify if a contingency plan was in place should promotion not happen and Derek explained that the club is monitoring the clubs expenditure and income like every club. Certain aspect of the clubs historical spending has been analysed which has shown areas for improvement and getting the best deal on mundane spending has not always been exercised. More suppliers will now be given the opportunity to put competitive prices to the club, to allow the club to have a broader range of options whilst getting more value for money with like for like services.

I have quoted this from the link.

Could the action group ask for further clarification on the finances since the accounts have now been submitted?

If possible could the fans or a nominated representative of, give a written set of questions to be answered by the club?

Im personally thinking changing our electric suppliers and the like (as intimated by DS above) will turn around the massive operating losses, offset only by player sales.

If you can put some together we will ensure they are answered in full,

To add a little more, Derek stated that far too many suppliers had been allowed to get their feet under the table over the last 15 years, and because of this monopolised much of rovers spending without opposition from other suppliers.

He gave an example of some chairs they nearly bought for £6k but when he realised they had got no other quotes, he requested more quotes were got. He ended up with three quotes for like for like products and rovers got them for £2.5k

Its this sort of stuff he is taking a hands on approach with.

[mark1875]

17) The group wished to clarify if a contingency plan was in place should promotion not happen and Derek explained that the club is monitoring the clubs expenditure and income like every club. Certain aspect of the clubs historical spending has been analysed which has shown areas for improvement and getting the best deal on mundane spending has not always been exercised. More suppliers will now be given the opportunity to put competitive prices to the club, to allow the club to have a broader range of options whilst getting more value for money with like for like services.

I have quoted this from the link.

Could the action group ask for further clarification on the finances since the accounts have now been submitted?

If possible could the fans or a nominated representative of, give a written set of questions to be answered by the club?

Im personally thinking changing our electric suppliers and the like (as intimated by DS above) will turn around the massive operating losses, offset only by player sales.

I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore, however constructive posts like this which will get the topic back on track are very much needed.

In our next meeting with the club, i would expect the clubs official accounts to also have been published as they are due in the coming weeks, so there will be lots of supporter questions which will be on the agenda at this meeting no doubt.

We are holding a bloggers night on the 13th December where Shebby will answer questions from supporters, more details here. Perhaps if somebody perhaps even you Baz, of course if you'd like to do it, could form a list of questions from supporters and ask them in person on the night and then produce a written summary of the answers given?

[RoverScot]

If BRAG and the Fans forum can't agree on a shared platform because of personal issues, just continue to have Shebby or Derek Shaw answer two sets of question once a month. Its only a problem for those two having to turn up on two separate nights.

If BRAG are demanding information and communication of how the club is run and then gets that information, why is this a bad thing?

[roverzee]

I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore, however constructive posts like this which will get the topic back on track are very much needed.

You are listed as the Secretary and the Acting Treasurer on the BRAG website. Why don't you want to post on this thread anymore - are the questions too difficult?

Please could you make public the full list of candidates for all the elected positions, the number of votes cast for each winning and losing candidate, and the breakdown of the voting and number of votes cast from the 12 international branches.

If any of the committee positions were uncontested (ie there was only one candidate for the position) could you make this clear please?

[mark1875]

You are listed as the Secretary and the Acting Treasurer on the BRAG website. Why don't you want to post on this thread anymore - are the questions too difficult?

Please could you make public the full list of candidates for all the elected positions, the number of votes cast for each winning and losing candidate, and the breakdown of the voting and number of votes cast from the 12 international branches.

If any of the committee positions were uncontested (ie there was only one candidate for the position) could you make this clear please?

The questions are fine, i was referring to the irrelevant posts which result in the thread descending into chaos, this being the reason i didn't want to post on it, we have already had 2 pages deleted to clean it up and therefore i do not want to play a part in the admins having to repeat this task.

Am i being requested to do this by a member of the BRFC Action Group? email into the committee, then we will discuss this at the upcoming committee meeting, however we would need more than "Roverzee requested this".

Glen has explained on this very thread how the positions where contested, so it should already be clear.

He also explained about the 12 international branches not being formed at that stage, do we have to go around in circles with repetitive questions and failure to read the answers? rather than take over the thread with them, email them in as we reply to all questions from our members.

[Baz]

If you can put some together we will ensure they are answered in full,

To add a little more, Derek stated that far too many suppliers had been allowed to get their feet under the table over the last 15 years, and because of this monopolised much of rovers spending without opposition from other suppliers.

He gave an example of some chairs they nearly bought for £6k but when he realised they had got no other quotes, he requested more quotes were got. He ended up with three quotes for like for like products and rovers got them for £2.5k

Its this sort of stuff he is taking a hands on approach with.

I think the questions should come initially from the accountants on here who could give specific questions (Philip, Fernhurst Blue etc) but put forward by BRAG.

I should also say that above where i say i do think we would be able to turn around operating losses by switching suppliers, thats a typo. I actually dont. Im not saying they shouldnt look at every way of saving money, but i think theres some much more major changes that could be made rather than saving 2k on chairs.

[glen9mullan]

I think the questions should come initially from the accountants on here who could give specific questions (Philip, Fernhurst Blue etc) but put forward by BRAG.

I should also say that above where i say i do think we would be able to turn around operating losses by switching suppliers, thats a typo. I actually dont. Im not saying they shouldnt look at every way of saving money, but i think theres some much more major changes that could be made rather than saving 2k on chairs.

If some questions with structure can be put together I will ensure Karen Silk gets these immediately and they are answered in full

[Amo]

Mentioning either the Inaction Group or the Rovers Distrust should be bannable offences, imo.

Starting from the end of this post, of course.

[roverzee]

The questions are fine, i was referring to the irrelevant posts which result in the thread descending into chaos, this being the reason i didn't want to post on it, we have already had 2 pages deleted to clean it up and therefore i do not want to play a part in the admins having to repeat this task.

Am i being requested to do this by a member of the BRFC Action Group? email into the committee, then we will discuss this at the upcoming committee meeting, however we would need more than "Roverzee requested this".

Glen has explained on this very thread how the positions where contested, so it should already be clear.

He also explained about the 12 international branches not being formed at that stage, do we have to go around in circles with repetitive questions and failure to read the answers? rather than take over the thread with them, email them in as we reply to all questions from our members.

Just answer the questions here in public and publish the numbers. Remember you are open, honest and do everything for the fans, so you don't need a bloody committee meeting for permission to tell the world how you all got elected do you?

[mark1875]

Just answer the questions here in public and publish the numbers. Remember you are open, honest and do everything for the fans, so you don't need a bloody committee meeting for permission to tell the world how you all got elected do you?

We do everything we do for our members and only represent them, as we are all to often reminded and when a member emails in we deal with that immediately.

We have explained how we got elected and how the process worked and that whole process was open to everyone who wished to stand and the results independently counted at a public meeting, it could not have been more publicly conducted.

If you're a member of the group and wish to know more about any group related issue feel free to email into the committee. I am not going around in circles.