[Archived] BRFC Action Group

[clitheroerover]

+1

I don't see what is difficult to comprehend about the above...

+1

Don't know which is the biggest circus - BRAG or Venky's

[Pedro]

You just don't get it Gav do you that the vast majority of Rovers fans have no wish to be part of an organisation whose head honchos have proved themselves time and time again to be unsuited to any kind of public office, amateurish and incompetent?

Most fans are happy to make their own voice heard as and when necessary/appropriate - see what kind of reception the Raos/Desais get this weekend if they turn up & that won't be on account of any hectoring or cajoling on BRAG's part & it won't be because people do or don't approve of Appleton's appointment or the process which led to it

+1

[Tom]

Another reference to EDL, I wonder how long it'll take for the site to take this as fact, that indeed BRAG are actually the EDL.....

You've clearly go an agenda Mike, as do several others that posters on the this thread and who follow BRAG members around the site, and no amount of arguing one way of another will change that, but.....

If you feel that BRAG misrepresents the supporters, like yourself, its never claimed to support, why not join up and help them out? I'm sure you'd be welcomed onboard and could help them progress into the professional outfit you so crave, now there's a thought!

I think its unfair to say Mike has an agenda he just disputes the effectiveness of the group

However its clear that some people who post in here do have an agenda against the group and it shines like a beacon when they post (most of those types are banned now I think)

Those folks shouldn't be confused with the likes of Mike, Parson and many many more (and id put myself in this category) who post without agenda just a different opinion and doubts about the action groups methods and the like these days.

[Gav]

You just don't get it Gav do you that the vast majority of Rovers fans have no wish to be part of an organisation whose head honchos have proved themselves time and time again to be unsuited to any kind of public office, amateurish and incompetent?

Most fans are happy to make their own voice heard as and when necessary/appropriate - see what kind of reception the Raos/Desais get this weekend if they turn up & that won't be on account of any hectoring or cajoling on BRAG's part & it won't be because people do or don't approve of Appleton's appointment or the process which led to it

I get it completely meadows, but what you and your anti-BRAG mates fail to understand is that they don't speak for you, they speak for the BRAG membership, and as long as they have members, of which you can become one if you're so concerned about them being "unsuited to any kind of public office, amateurish and incompetent", they'll continue to serve there membership.

You're shooting down an organisation that believes its trying to bring about change to the club, but you're not willing to get off your own arse and do anything yourself I assume by your replies, which is far worse in my eyes.

We'll agree to disagree.

[Mike E]

I think its unfair to say Mike has an agenda he just disputes the effectiveness of the group

However its clear that some people who post in here do have an agenda against the group and it shines like a beacon when they post (most of those types are banned now I think)

Those folks shouldn't be confused with the likes of Mike, Parson and many many more (and id put myself in this category) who post without agenda just a different opinion and doubts about the action groups methods and the like these days.

Thank you Tom for adding some sense haha. As you say, I have no agenda. My only dispute with the group is that they don't take or act on constructive criticism and continue slip on banana skins that they put in front of themselves. They could be a very sensible and coordinated group. But why should I offer any use to them if they don't take up Ricky's simple proof-reading offer?

Gav - the EDL reference was not 'another' reference at all. I was just furthering Topman's (I think?) point, that yes, the group act like the EDL in many ways. We aren't saying BRAG are racist tossers; just quite poorly organised, which further antagonises other fans and discourages us from wanting anything to do with them.

If there was any sign that they'd take on board the help offered to them, I might try and help. Hell, I'm 21. I'm half the age of most on here (including, I assume, yourself) and yet I can see the flaws that those in the group either cannot see or arrogantly refuse to rectify.

[Pedro]

I get it completely meadows, but what you and your anti-BRAG mates fail to understand is that they don't speak for you, they speak for the BRAG membership, and as long as they have members, of which you can become one if you're so concerned about them being "unsuited to any kind of public office, amateurish and incompetent", they'll continue to serve there membership.

You're shooting down an organisation that believes its trying to bring about change to the club, but you're not willing to get off your own arse and do anything yourself I assume by your replies, which is far worse in my eyes.

We'll agree to disagree.

That's not true. Glen always says 'the supporters' when he is interviewed - that includes the likes of me and he certainly doesn't speak for me. The change to the club, as has been pointed, isn't positive change or hasn't shown a glimmer of positive change. It's simply damaging.

[Doug]

Thank you Tom for adding some sense haha. As you say, I have no agenda. My only dispute with the group is that they don't take or act on constructive criticism and continue slip on banana skins that they put in front of themselves. They could be a very sensible and coordinated group. But why should I offer any use to them if they don't take up Ricky's simple proof-reading offer?

Gav - the EDL reference was not 'another' reference at all. I was just furthering Topman's (I think?) point, that yes, the group act like the EDL in many ways. We aren't saying BRAG are racist tossers; just quite poorly organised, which further antagonises other fans and discourages us from wanting anything to do with them.

If there was any sign that they'd take on board the help offered to them, I might try and help. Hell, I'm 21. I'm half the age of most on here (including, I assume, yourself) and yet I can see the flaws that those in the group either cannot see or arrogantly refuse to rectify.

Ouch.....that's got to hurt Tom!! Maybe a ban may ease the pain?

[Mike E]

Aimed at Gav, don't worry haha.

[Gav]

Thank you Tom for adding some sense haha. As you say, I have no agenda. My only dispute with the group is that they don't take or act on constructive criticism and continue slip on banana skins that they put in front of themselves. They could be a very sensible and coordinated group. But why should I offer any use to them if they don't take up Ricky's simple proof-reading offer?

Gav - the EDL reference was not 'another' reference at all. I was just furthering Topman's (I think?) point, that yes, the group act like the EDL in many ways. We aren't saying BRAG are racist tossers; just quite poorly organised, which further antagonises other fans and discourages us from wanting anything to do with them.

If there was any sign that they'd take on board the help offered to them, I might try and help. Hell, I'm 21. I'm half the age of most on here (including, I assume, yourself) and yet I can see the flaws that those in the group either cannot see or arrogantly refuse to rectify.

Drawing comparisons with the EDL isn't helpful and isn't right, and the exuberance of youth has got the better of me, I need a sleep so I'll leave you to it.

[Mike E]

Football background turned political party, run by amateurs, some valid points undermined by their agenda, and exploiting tensions of society at the club for their own advantage.

Drawing comparisons with the EDL isn't helpful and isn't right, and the exuberance of youth has got the better of me, I need a sleep so I'll leave you to it.

So what part of Topman's comparison with BRAG is incorrect, then? You seem to be focusing on the racist element of the EDL, which neither of us have alluded to, nor do either of us intend to allude to it.

[Tom]

I think the problem is Mike it can seem a tad sensationalist and when people compare the two then folk will jump to the racist aspect of the EDL and it could leave a bad and false image of BRAG

[Gav]

So what part of Topman's comparison with BRAG is incorrect, then? You seem to be focusing on the racist element of the EDL, which neither of us have alluded to, nor do either of us intend to allude to it.

Lets face it, both you and Topman could have drawn comparisons with numerous groups and organisations, but used the EDL to make a point, and you don't expect people to focus on the racist element?

Bunkum Mike.

I think the problem is Mike it can seem a tad sensationalist and when people compare the two then folk will jump to the racist aspect of the EDL and it could leave a bad and false image of BRAG

Hence the comment regarding agendas Tom

[Ricky]

Can I ask a question, maybe someone can answer it for me. I've been accused as having an agenda against Brag, others seem to be getting accused of the same.

Serious question, what is our so called agenda? I'm confused. I'm not a member of any other group, I'm not trying to get people to join another group or anything..... So what actually is this agenda that myself and others have??

And apologies if this makes little sense as in at my wife's bedside in hospital after 3 hours sleep in the last 2 days.

[glen9mullan]

Can I ask a question, maybe someone can answer it for me. I've been accused as having an agenda against Brag, others seem to be getting accused of the same.

Serious question, what is our so called agenda? I'm confused. I'm not a member of any other group, I'm not trying to get people to join another group or anything..... So what actually is this agenda that myself and others have??

And apologies if this makes little sense as in at my wife's bedside in hospital after 3 hours sleep in the last 2 days.

Firstly I hope your wife is ok , as family far more important that anything .

Bat and ball springs to mind , the group does appear to be the ball.

Every comment which has a go at another supporter or a group is a comment which causes divide.

For a group people claim to be insignificant , people don't half talk about it .

If people genuinely want something to disappear the easiest way is not to talk about it .

When every thread has reference to something , of course it's going to drum up media attention . However it does cause more divide .

If you notice we do not discuss other groups on here as we all agreed at the united supporters meeting that we would not air our opinions on who is running what , who wants to achieve what and how they go about achieving that .

There is a difference of opinion in different groups approaches , whilst a large section of supporters are not attached to any group .

This section does not want anyone speaking for them , but in some cases are totally bemused with the situation at the club .

We only represent our members and are accountable to them. We do not claim to represent non members and openly admit that not everyone agrees with the groups approach or direction . However I do think many of this is due to stereotyping and not really of knowledge of what the group does and why .

If people do not like the elected members of the committee , then I can't do anything about that . Only the members can when elections take place .

However the agendas you speak of , is when the same old posters , post the same old things every day and at any point just to cause even more divide .

If we gave away £20 notes people would complain they want two £10 notes instead .

Do we have all the answers ? No

Do we think we will achieve our goals of a well run club under steady ownership ? Don't know

Do we want an experienced board of directors with the power to make decisions ? Yes

Do we support the current managers? Yes

Do we support the boycotts ? We have no opinion either way .

Do we support the trust ? As an individual I have pledged , as a group the members will decide

Do we want the community to he integrated back into the club? Yes

Will we be pro-active in achieving some of the above ? Yes

Will we be organising protest ( banners , marches , statics etc ) ? No

Do we have a group stance on them ? No

Will we come out and ask people to boycott? No

Will we come out and ask people to protest? No

Will we hold the owners and administration accountable for their actions ? Yes and will take any official approach to challenge any decision which either brings the game into disrepute or is deemed unethical to the badge

[Mike E]

Lets face it, both you and Topman could have drawn comparisons with numerous groups and organisations, but used the EDL to make a point, and you don't expect people to focus on the racist element?

Bunkum Mike.

Hence the comment regarding agendas Tom

Fair play, I can accept that point. But just to point out, I was only expanding on Topman's point. I really could've put any group, but seeing as it'd been mentioned. But even so, if a group of absolute imbeciles like the EDL can get their basic English grammar right, then BRAG should.

I do hope they take up Ricky's offer in future. It's a little effort that will go a long way. And I do feel that if BRAG are demanding an apology from Dan Clough, I feel he deserves an apology for being told he's done something wrong when he hasn't. That's fair, right?

I'll leave it until the next silly incident, but the people's annoyances directed towards BRAG aren't misguided. If they are an organisation with integrity, then they should run themselves as such. Silly mistakes such as theirs have had other groups lambasted in the wider public media. I do wish the group well. But right now it doesn't appear to be doing anything of note.

The fan representative issue won't go away until they learn to say '1000 of this group's members contacted us in a single night to say that that', rather than the sensationalist and incorrect 'Fans believe that'.

[cn174]

What else could putting out statements about racking up the ante against the Board and Venkys if Appleton was appointed be construed as then?

Even to speak for their own "8000" members they would have needed to be contacted by at least 4001 of them as they occasionally claim they only act upon or reflect the thoughts of their own membership

Opinion Polls usually sample about 1%.

I don't really see your point.

So if 80 of the 8000 members expressed an opinion that would be taken as a mandate on behalf of the 7920 who didn't?

Even if those 80 are fully committed season ticket every game people they represent less than 2% of the crowd that turned up for the FA Cup match

Hardly "voice of the people" stuff eh?

To make a statistically valid statement on behalf of their 8000 members, they need to get the opinions of 558 of them to be 95% confident that the views of them 558 represent the whole population of 8000.

But that doesn't stop them from making a statement based upon the opinion of 1, 2, 100 or all 8000 members should they wish to.

[Rishton blue]

Of the 8,000 'members', how many are actual members? I'm a 'member' but only cause I thought it would give me a little bit more insight to what's going on at Ewood. I'm not after participating in anything they do. I'm also a member for the 10% discount at the Balti house in Rishton ha ha. My mother in law has never been to a football match and has no idea who BRAG are. She only wanted Bruno's autograph for my two kids when he was at their stall in the market. Two weeks ago she received a membership pack! So how many are actual participating members??

[Exiled in Toronto]

Firstly I hope your wife is ok , as family far more important that anything .

Bat and ball springs to mind , the group does appear to be the ball.

Every comment which has a go at another supporter or a group is a comment which causes divide.

For a group people claim to be insignificant , people don't half talk about it .

If people genuinely want something to disappear the easiest way is not to talk about it .

When every thread has reference to something , of course it's going to drum up media attention . However it does cause more divide .

If you notice we do not discuss other groups on here as we all agreed at the united supporters meeting that we would not air our opinions on who is running what , who wants to achieve what and how they go about achieving that .

There is a difference of opinion in different groups approaches , whilst a large section of supporters are not attached to any group .

This section does not want anyone speaking for them , but in some cases are totally bemused with the situation at the club .

We only represent our members and are accountable to them. We do not claim to represent non members and openly admit that not everyone agrees with the groups approach or direction . However I do think many of this is due to stereotyping and not really of knowledge of what the group does and why .

If people do not like the elected members of the committee , then I can't do anything about that . Only the members can when elections take place .

However the agendas you speak of , is when the same old posters , post the same old things every day and at any point just to cause even more divide .

If we gave away £20 notes people would complain they want two £10 notes instead .

Do we have all the answers ? No

Do we think we will achieve our goals of a well run club under steady ownership ? Don't know

Do we want an experienced board of directors with the power to make decisions ? Yes

Do we support the current managers? Yes

Do we support the boycotts ? We have no opinion either way .

Do we support the trust ? As an individual I have pledged , as a group the members will decide

Do we want the community to he integrated back into the club? Yes

Will we be pro-active in achieving some of the above ? Yes

Will we be organising protest ( banners , marches , statics etc ) ? No

Do we have a group stance on them ? No

Will we come out and ask people to boycott? No

Will we come out and ask people to protest? No

Will we hold the owners and administration accountable for their actions ? Yes and will take any official approach to challenge any decision which either brings the game into disrepute or is deemed unethical to the badge

I can't believe anyone reads these half pagers of yours.

Leaving aside the oft-complained about poor construction of BRAG's press releases, which you seem determined not to address, the secret to any communications strategy is a simple, clear, consistent message that is referred back to time after time. Elections are won and lost on messages such as "Labour isn't working" or "It's the economy, Stupid" (although that was an internal rather than external one, but it guided Clinton's entire campaign) If you are going to persist in using the press (although personally I think that cake has already been baked), then you need a simple, clear message, which you do not have.

Venky's are destroying a famous club, original members of both the Football League and the Premier League. Now there's something every football fan in the country can buy into. Focusing on the manager, be it Kean or McKinley or Appleton or Menotti or Sir Alf or whoever is next was, is, and will be a failed strategy.

[Amo]

Lets face it, both you and Topman could have drawn comparisons with numerous groups and organisations, but used the EDL to make a point, and you don't expect people to focus on the racist element?

Bunkum Mike.

Hence the comment regarding agendas Tom

I'd love to know what our agendas are, GAV. Could you enlighten?

We don't work for the club. We don't work for another Rovers organisation. We have no personal history with BRAG or its members (can't speak for Mike but I presume he's the same). There isn't any sort of angle here other than we (and we're far from alone here) think BRAG are out of their depth and should not be representing the fans (which they do, whether you like it or not). So where does that leave you?

[Tom]

Of the 8,000 'members', how many are actual members? I'm a 'member' but only cause I thought it would give me a little bit more insight to what's going on at Ewood. I'm not after participating in anything they do. I'm also a member for the 10% discount at the Balti house in Rishton ha ha. My mother in law has never been to a football match and has no idea who BRAG are. She only wanted Bruno's autograph for my two kids when he was at their stall in the market. Two weeks ago she received a membership pack! So how many are actual participating members??

Balti house discount? Sign me up

[Rishton blue]

Balti house discount? Sign me up

Ha ha

[Ricky]

I guess the forthcoming ballot may give a better indication of active members.

[pk1875]

Of the 8,000 'members', how many are actual members? I'm a 'member' but only cause I thought it would give me a little bit more insight to what's going on at Ewood. I'm not after participating in anything they do. I'm also a member for the 10% discount at the Balti house in Rishton ha ha. My mother in law has never been to a football match and has no idea who BRAG are. She only wanted Bruno's autograph for my two kids when he was at their stall in the market. Two weeks ago she received a membership pack! So how many are actual participating members??

To be honest many attended that day to meet Bruno, many signed up for membership and many didn't. It wasn't a sign up and you can meet Bruno scenario.

I'm glad you will enjoy some of the membership discounts, as I hope there is something in there for everyone.

[pk1875]

I guess the forthcoming ballot may give a better indication of active members.

I hope we do get a good number of members returning their ballot paper, as I believe it is an important decision for the group. That said if people choose not to vote they can't really complain about the outcome. So if you are a member PLEASE take time to tick the box and return your slip.

[AlanK]

If people genuinely want something to disappear the easiest way is not to talk about it .

Nonsense. If life was that easy we would have stopped mentioning Venkys months ago.