[Archived] Mentality - Is this the way forward?

[Kelbo]

This keeps happening. Time and time again, Manchester United are on the brink of failure. Time and time again, they haul themselves back.

That strength of character doesn’t develop by accident. You can’t buy it either.

You can only forge it over time, instilling it in generation after generation of players. That’s why Sir Alex Ferguson is still in a job. That’s why he keeps winning things. And that’s why United are six points clear of City at the top of the Premier League.

When goalkeeper Ben Foster left Old Trafford, he described the club as ‘cut-throat’ and spoke darkly of a ‘succeed at any cost’ mentality. He said that training sessions were brutally competitive. He didn’t like that kind of intensity.

He’s not the only one. Since 1986, dozens of talented footballers have found that they’ve fallen short of expectations, not technically, but mentally.

"Ferguson once watched his Aberdeen side win the 1983 Scottish Cup, publicly tore strips off them in the televised post-match interview"

Ferguson will not tolerate mental weakness. That’s why no United player would ever hide behind a team-mate in the wall.

If Samir Nasri had done that in a Ferguson team, there would be nothing left of him now, except for a pair of smoking football boots and a scorch mark on the dressing room wall.

Ferguson has attracted much criticism over recent years. Some of it, like the frustration at his refusal to buy a dynamic, mobile defensive midfielder, is fair.

Some of it, like the lingering perception that he is a tactical simpleton, is not.

You don’t do what he has done, you don’t win what he has won, if you can’t organise a team. But tactics and technical coaching are not, and have never been, his strongest suit.

"He may have mellowed a little since then, but not by much"

It’s the fire he stokes in the hearts of his players that lifts him above the norm.

This is the man who, having just watched his Aberdeen side win the 1983 Scottish Cup, publicly tore strips off them in the televised post-match interview.

This is the man who furiously dragged talented teenage players Lee Sharpe and Ryan Giggs out of parties, the man who blasted a football boot into the face of his most marketable player. He may have mellowed a little since then, but not by much.

Anyone who says that it’s United’s title now is mad. Six points is nothing at this stage of the season and City will doubtless return, wounds licked and tails up.

But the fact that United are still up there, still impervious to the decline that eventually brings all empires down, is testament not to their resources or their brand, but to Ferguson. He is not finished yet.

Just picked this up on the net - a good read and one which we as a club, could follow the principles!!

[Rover_Shaun]

We could, but like all the other clubs we won't

[Hughesy]

Helps when you have the sort of quality that they do though eh!!

We need some fighters in our team to start this type of mentality.

[M-K]

So all Blackburn need is:

- The best manager in the business

- An academy that can attract the best young players in the country

- A transfer budget so vast that the manager can break the British transfer record and then decide that, actually, you know, he doesn't really fit into the team after all

[K-Hod]

The club needs a lot of things- some balls, some graft, some defending, some service for our £8 million striker, some fitness, and the ability to see games out and not constantly keep conceding in the last 5 minutes of games.

[DE.]

Kelbo's overall point is spot on. City have plenty of quality talent but the reason they failed abysmally in the Champs league and lost the Manc derby Sunday is because mentally they're weak. You see it in wimps like Nasri, whilst self-absorbed players like Balotelli and Tevez will only carry you so far. Without Kompany and Yaya Toure City would be nothing. Only a bizarre collapse by United last season gave City the title after their mental frailty left them trailing way behind.

Strong teams have a strong mental attitude and an absolute will to win. Our squad can't be said to possess either, and it's one of the first things Berg needs to address. Kean systemically removed all traces of courage and individuality from our team, from Nelsen to Samba to Diouf. We were left with a group of spineless nobodies who have no guts and no will to win. Things are slightly better at the moment but too many players are still stuck with a losers menality and until we shake that we'll struggle. We even had a poor mentality when we were winning - hence the awful performances.

[Majiball]

Kelbo's overall point is spot on. City has plenty of quality talent but the reason they failed abysmally in the Champs league and lost the Manc derby Sunday is because mentally they're weak. You see it in wimps like Nasri, whilst self-absorbed players like Balotelli and Tevez will only carry you so far. Only a bizarre collapse by United last season gave City the title after their mental frailty left them trailing way behind.

Strong teams have a strong mental attitude and an absolute will to win. Our squad can't be said to possess either, and it's one of the first things Berg needs to address. Kean systemically removed all traces of courage and individuality from our team, from Nelsen to Samba to Diouf. We were left with a group of spineless nobodies who have no guts and no will to win. Things are slightly better at the moment but too many players are still stuck with a losers menality and until we shake that we'll struggle. We even had a poor mentality when we were winning - hence the awful performances.

Whilst I agree that having a club ethos and mantra is important and something the club should endorse can you imagine though what it would be with SS and co running the show?

PS I think Mancini is the reason they've crashed and burned in europe as it seems to be one competition he's never done well in. just look at Inter? and then in swept Jose. Mancini is the issue at City not the players.

[DE.]

Whilst I agree that having a club ethos and mantra is important and something the club should endorse can you imagine though what it would be with SS and co running the show?

PS I think Mancini is the reason they've crashed and burned in europe as it seems to be one competition he's never done well in. just look at Inter? and then in swept Jose. Mancini is the issue at City not the players.

SS and co are running the show, aren't they? I agree that it's difficult to Berg to implement any kind of positive ethos with that in mind, but he has to try or we aren't going anywhere fast.

And yes, Mancini is a big part of the problem, but that's a given as it's up to the manager to install fighting spirit and determination in the players and all too often he seems to fail in that respect. His admissions that he "didn't prepare the team properly" for certain games shows him to be a weak manager, IMO. You never hear top managers saying that, even if they think it.

[Kamy100]

Very good point, Mentality in sport is a key component of success.

Hughes's successful Rovers sides for example were full of players who would go the extra mile, never knew when they beaten and were mentally strong (Savage, Nelsen, Reid, Bellamy, Brad, Mokoena etc.)

Both in team and individual sport having talent is of course is very important but the ones that are successful are the one who along with talent are mentally strong.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I agree with the point but there's one crucial thing that a manager needs to be able to tear strips off extortionately paid, arrogant young men, a deep-rooted respect from them. Thats what allows Ferguson to blast his players whenever he sees fit with the only reaction being that they get better. That kind of respect from those kind of difficult to impress people generally can only be earnt through success, very little else will acquire it. I'm sure many Rovers players under us found Allardyce's brand of football unattractive and the regimented roles they had to perform restrictive and sometimes unenjoyable. But they carried out those roles with a passionate and gutsy mentality because they respected the manager because of the success he's achieved.

On what basis will our current squad respect Berg? His achievements as a player? That might work in the lower leagues, as it did with Ince, but you need more than that at this level. His record as a manager doesn't demand respect, so its gonna be harder for him to get the attitude he needs from the players. And doubly hard now his honeymoon is over and his initial alterations to our play haven't worked.

[Amo]

You gotta hand it to old SAF, the way he's managed to keep up with the ever-changing zeitgeist of football is nothing short of miraculous. It's all well and good owing their continued success to the size of the club and its resources, but then I'd kindly point you in the direction of Liverpool, Leeds, & Arsenal, all of whom have fallen from grace at one stage or another. Even when doubters have spotted the faintest of cracks emerging he's always managed to prove them wrong. There's an almost palpable expectation at United for nothing less than 100% and that stems from their immortal manager. Like it or not.

Still hate the b*stards.

[Howler]

You gotta hand it to old SAF, the way he's managed to keep up with the ever-changing zeitgeist of football is nothing short of miraculous. It's all well and good owing their continued success to the size of the club and its resources, but then I'd kindly point you in the direction of Liverpool, Leeds, & Arsenal, all of whom have fallen from grace at one stage or another. Even when doubters have spotted the faintest of cracks emerging he's always managed to prove them wrong. There's an almost palpable expectation at United for nothing less than 100% and that stems from their immortal manager. Like it or not.

Still hate the b*stards.

Quite, I used to despise him but there is no denying his achievements, keeping that hunger for 25+ years and re-building several teams. Still think he could have delivered more in Europe and think at the very top level he has been out-thought by opposing coaches.

[Joar]

I see something of the same in David Moyes to be honest. Everton are leagues behind a lot of other clubs financially, but they are (almost) always performing. I think the reason they aren't in the top 6-7 every year is their thin squad (due to finances), which make injuries do alot more damage.

[RevidgeBlue]

Good post from Kelbo and that is why I think it is essential to shift out Black and most of the rest of the backroom staff. Over the last couple of seasons a losing mentality has become the norm and acceptable within the team and if Berg is to survive in the long run he has to turn it around and give the team a winning mentality.

I might be in a minority but I think there is plenty of ability in this squad, however in my view the majority are underperforming badly. Berg has to get the players performing to their capabilities and the team as a whole performing better than the sum of their parts.

Far easier said than done based on recent evidence.

[LWX]

Hughes's successful Rovers sides for example were full of players who would go the extra mile, never knew when they beaten and were mentally strong (Savage, Nelsen, Reid, Bellamy, Brad, Mokoena etc.)

Its funny, Aaron used to get soo much stick... how spoilt we were, what we wouldnt do for a player like him now!!

[Speedie Dived]

Kelbo's overall point is spot on. City have plenty of quality talent but the reason they failed abysmally in the Champs league and lost the Manc derby Sunday is because mentally they're weak. You see it in wimps like Nasri, whilst self-absorbed players like Balotelli and Tevez will only carry you so far. Without Kompany and Yaya Toure City would be nothing. Only a bizarre collapse by United last season gave City the title after their mental frailty left them trailing way behind.

Strong teams have a strong mental attitude and an absolute will to win. Our squad can't be said to possess either, and it's one of the first things Berg needs to address. Kean systemically removed all traces of courage and individuality from our team, from Nelsen to Samba to Diouf. We were left with a group of spineless nobodies who have no guts and no will to win. Things are slightly better at the moment but too many players are still stuck with a losers menality and until we shake that we'll struggle. We even had a poor mentality when we were winning - hence the awful performances.

Where was the will to win last year when City smashed them 6-1 at home? Or when they lost away to Wigan and blew the league?

You cannot criticize City for being mentally frail and behind in the league, yet say it's "bizarre" when it happened to United and they lost the league.

If Nasri stands still, question marks are being raised again about United.

[Speedie Dived]

Its funny, Aaron used to get soo much stick... how spoilt we were, what we wouldnt do for a player like him now!!

The Axe? Hells bells, the poor lad would be killed by the fans in this side. Time does funny things to player's reps.

[DE.]

Where was the will to win last year when City smashed them 6-1 at home? Or when they lost away to Wigan and blew the league?

You cannot criticize City for being mentally frail and behind in the league, yet say it's "bizarre" when it happened to United and they lost the league.

If Nasri stands still, question marks are being raised again about United.

Who has been the most dominant team in English football for the last 20+ years? It ain't City.

Yeah, United had a blip last season. Are you saying it isn't bizarre for United to throw away a title like that, though? How many titles have they won in comparison to City over the last twenty years?

City benefit from playing in a Premier League bereft of real competition. When they play in competition with teams of real quality (see: Champions League) they come up short every time. Whilst United also came up short last year, Ferguson has clearly worked to fix what was wrong last year and this year they've beaten City at the Etihad, qualified from the group stages of the CL and look pretty strong overall.

I'm not sure what your point is though. You think Man City have mentally strong players? Or United are mentally weak? Or both?

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Very good point, Mentality in sport is a key component of success.

Both in team and individual sport having talent is of course is very important but the ones that are successful are the one who along with talent are mentally strong.

Absolutely. I remember talking to an athletics coach once and he told me that one of the main reasons that Britain hadn't produced many top-class tennis players in recent years was the fact that tennis is generally played by "posh" youngsters in this country and they didn't have the mental fortitude to succeed that would be easier to find in middle, lower-middle or working class youngsters.

As for our squad......you can definitely have leaders....Samba. Nelsen, Salgado, Phil/Jermaine Jones etc.....but I think all, or basically all, professional footballers have that will to win otherwise I doubt they would have made it as professional footballers in the first place......maybe top-class footballers could get away with it but with our squad, you would think they have the right attitude otherwise they wouldn't have made it as far as they did.

I think it's just a confidence/motivation thing....and just like fitness, this is down to the manager....as managers would be the ones to get the credit if a team was exceptionally fit and motivated, so they are mostly at fault if the opposite is the case imo.

I know people talk of the "new-manager bounce" but it's not like this happens 100% of the time.

Kean did untold damage to our squad so I'm still giving Berg the benefit of the doubt, as well as the transfer window.....but more team selections like the one on Friday night and my patience will probably start to wear a little thin.

[Majiball]

Very good point, Mentality in sport is a key component of success.

Hughes's successful Rovers sides for example were full of players who would go the extra mile, never knew when they beaten and were mentally strong (Savage, Nelsen, Reid, Bellamy, Brad, Mokoena etc.)

Both in team and individual sport having talent is of course is very important but the ones that are successful are the one who along with talent are mentally strong.

I'm going to use the last line of the above and say how many of City's players are not top, top players??? I don't believe they are mentally weak it doesn't add-up as they are some of the best players in the world at present. Ferguson is the highlighted reason United stay as they are and are always competing and winning trophies and yet with City it's not Mancini but their weak willed players like Aguero, Nasri, Glichy, Hart, silva, and Tevez. I doubt very few players at united don't have respect for Ferguson he's the greatest manager of the modern era, Mancini however isn't in the same class and his players clearly don't respect him ala a fergie given their comments. The manager sets the tone, he motivates and drives the players, one set perform, the other don't.

[Speedie Dived]

Who has been the most dominant team in English football for the last 20+ years? It ain't City.

Yeah, United had a blip last season. Are you saying it isn't bizarre for United to throw away a title like that, though? How many titles have they won in comparison to City over the last twenty years?

City benefit from playing in a Premier League bereft of real competition. When they play in competition with teams of real quality (see: Champions League) they come up short every time. Whilst United also came up short last year, Ferguson has clearly worked to fix what was wrong last year and this year they've beaten City at the Etihad, qualified from the group stages of the CL and look pretty strong overall.

I'm not sure what your point is though. You think Man City have mentally strong players? Or United are mentally weak? Or both?

The most successful team since the turn of the century has been Chelsea, they have gone through countless managers, surrounded by a culture of player power and rats leaving ships possess more loyalty, however they have won more in 12 years than United have. I am just more of a believer in better players will win you games, than players that want to win it more.

City have been crap in the Champions league, cannot argue against that. That's what ultimately will do for Mancini.

I believe if RVP played for City then United will not be in the race.

[DE.]

Chelsea won most of their stuff under the guidance of Mourinho, who once again infused great team spirit and determination in his players. He does it at every club and it's why he's so successful. The players want to do well for him.

[Speedie Dived]

Absolutely. I remember talking to an athletics coach once and he told me that one of the main reasons that Britain hadn't produced many top-class tennis players in recent years was the fact that tennis is generally played by "posh" youngsters in this country and they didn't have the mental fortitude to succeed that would be easier to find in middle, lower-middle or working class youngsters.

That is a sweeping generalisation. How many kids from the council estate play Rugby professionally and were in England's world cup winning squad?

Chelsea won most of their stuff under the guidance of Mourinho, who once again infused great team spirit and determination in his players. He does it at every club and it's why he's so successful. The players want to do well for him.

So would City win as much with the current set of players and Jose in charge?

[DE.]

So would City win as much with the current set of players and Jose in charge?

I think they'd dominate the English league and do well in Europe too. But if Jose was in charge a lot of those players wouldn't be there or would have a completely different attitude.

[Speedie Dived]

I think they'd dominate the English league and do well in Europe too. But if Jose was in charge a lot of those players wouldn't be there or would have a completely different attitude.

Fair enough, personally i think with the modern world the way it is, United's never say die attitude and City's lilly livered attitude has been formed because one soft arse Frenchman turned his back. If he takes one in the crown jewells then City's ability to fight back is built up and United's defensive frailties are highlighted.

The truth is there is probably a fag paper between both sides, in terms of ability and attitude.