[Archived] The proposed trial for safe-standing area's

[Gally]

I wonder what the families of the 96 opinion is on 7,000 scousers standing when they play at Ewood...

Exactly. Very important not be flippant about something as important as Hillsborough, but for it to be insulting to those who died the proposal would have to be to reintroduce standing areas with the same problems which led to fans being crushed. If standing areas are genuinely safe, and there is enough demand for it, standing should be reintroduced.

[gumboots]

Anyone watch the French league match the other week when the whole area behind the goal was standing. Team scored and the whole crowd cascaded down to the front. that is my fear about standing. I used to do it in my teens but always stood with my back to a barrier so that if the crowd charged, there was some protection for me. I think sometimes people forget that safety is not just about grown men deciding what to do, it's about kids too. they will want to be where the action is and will probably see standing areas as that place. But they are very likely to get swept up and potentially trampled on in any crowd surge. Now I know they always used to go and there were very few accidents but we're all more safety conscious these days, and if there's potential for disaster then we need to be very careful. As for costs - they would be higher - more police and stewards needed to fulfil health and safety regs. Other sports don't get such big crowds - i stood at sale Sharks the other week and a crowd surge would have seen a couple of guys run past me

[Andy]

Stupid idea, for me. Clearly, stadium disasters haven't taught some people anything.

Along with the idea of 'netting', it would seem football is now going backward.

Completely agree.

We are in 2012 and you sit at football games. Standing is a thing of the past, and rightly so for safety purposes.

It annoys me when you see arrogant gits standing at matches. You have no right to stand, the stadiums are all-seaters these days, so sit in the seat that you've been allocated.

[stuwilky]

I dont understand why people persist with this "safety" argument. Its a myth. The very incident that brought about all seater stadiums has been proven to have not been caused by standing.

If standing is so unsafe, how is it safe and legal to do so in Division 3, but not in Division 1. Safe in Germany (and throughout Europe) but not in the UK?

The Football Supporters Federation have been banging this drum for many years - read what Amanda Jacks says on twitter, and elsewhere.

The SafeStanding campaign is about reintroducing choices. The lady referred to by Glen Mulan earlier, she would be able to sit at an away game, with standing areas introduced specifically for that purpose. Not everyone wants to stand, not everyone is able to stand. Why not allow them the choice to attend football in the way they want to.

[Sparky Marky]

Completely agree.

We are in 2012 and you sit at football games. Standing is a thing of the past, and rightly so for safety purposes.

It annoys me when you see arrogant gits standing at matches. You have no right to stand, the stadiums are all-seaters these days, so sit in the seat that you've been allocated.

[Neil Weaver]

Gumboots et al, have a look at this short video. It might just allay a few fears -

[Ste B]

Added a poll at Bens request

[Mike E]

Completely agree.

We are in 2012 and you sit at football games. Standing is a thing of the past, and rightly so for safety purposes.

It annoys me when you see arrogant gits standing at matches. You have no right to stand, the stadiums are all-seaters these days, so sit in the seat that you've been allocated.

I may be wrong but I have every right to stand if I so wish. Ofc if I'm blocking someone's view I sit straight down, but standing is not a crime.

Quite how allowing standing areas with the seats still in place is a bad idea is beyond me. It'd be the best of both worlds, surely? Those who want to stand can in certain areas. Those who want/need to sit can. Everybody wins! Or are Accy Stanley immoral?

[Stuart]

I may be wrong but I have every right to stand if I so wish. Ofc if I'm blocking someone's view I sit straight down, but standing is not a crime.

Quite how allowing standing areas with the seats still in place is a bad idea is beyond me. It'd be the best of both worlds, surely? Those who want to stand can in certain areas. Those who want/need to sit can. Everybody wins! Or are Accy Stanley immoral?

You are wrong.

You don't have the right to stand. You signed away this and other normal rights to the club when you bought your ticket. Read the small print.

[Tom]

No you don't have every right to stand in an all seater ground at all

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I think sometimes people forget that safety is not just about grown men deciding what to do, it's about kids too. they will want to be where the action is and will probably see standing areas as that place. But they are very likely to get swept up and potentially trampled on in any crowd surge.

Would probably see said Kids given Cotton wool to put in their Ears,protective Helmet and bright yellow Jacket at Turnstile nowadays!

[Ossydave]

Gumboots et al, have a look at this short video. It might just allay a few fears -

Feel sorry for the chap that has to arse about converting the rails to seats

[roversfan83]

Feel sorry for the chap that has to arse about converting the rails to seats

Hannover's equivalent of Paul Agnew under John Williams et al. Paul got a job for you screw up 5000 seats...But if they are anything like us though you could be screwing up seats one day chairman the next...

[K-Hod]

I dont understand why people persist with this "safety" argument. Its a myth. The very incident that brought about all seater stadiums has been proven to have not been caused by standing.

If standing is so unsafe, how is it safe and legal to do so in Division 3, but not in Division 1. Safe in Germany (and throughout Europe) but not in the UK?

The Football Supporters Federation have been banging this drum for many years - read what Amanda Jacks says on twitter, and elsewhere.

The SafeStanding campaign is about reintroducing choices. The lady referred to by Glen Mulan earlier, she would be able to sit at an away game, with standing areas introduced specifically for that purpose. Not everyone wants to stand, not everyone is able to stand. Why not allow them the choice to attend football in the way they want to.

This. To each their own, if there's a choice, there's no dramas.

[longsiders1882]

Stupid idea, for me. Clearly, stadium disasters haven't taught some people anything.

Along with the idea of 'netting', it would seem football is now going backward.

Really? How do you work out standing in and off itself contributed to, for example, Hillsborough? Lord Justice Taylor said in his report 'standing accommodation is not intrinsically unsafe', he also said the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control.

10's of thousands stand in bundesliga games every single week

[Ossydave]

Safety thing is complete nonsense, as the guy on that video said, there's never any accidents in that section of the ground. Knee high seats in front are a LOT more hazardous when you score a goal, you always see people going flying over them (done it once or twice myself). Luckily there's usually people in front to break the persons fall.

[3rdpillar]

Seats would still he present in any possible trial but they would he locked upright with a barrier along each row.

now that is a dumb idea..... how to kneeCap yourself for pleasure....

[Mc Love]

I know its not the same sport but we have standing areas (terraces) in Thomond Park and there isnt any trouble. There are seats higher up in the stands but in the north and south ends they are both terraced as well as in front of the main stands!

[Mike E]

If I sign away my right to stand, then why do we continue to do it? When we chant, we stand. When we score, we stand, nay, go mental. If I'm at the back of the tier, I stand and no-one asks me to sit. If someone's stood behind me, I can stand and no-one gives me bother. Therefore I have a right to stand when it's fine by those around me.

Ewood isn't quite so fascistic as 'you must sit at all times' or else nobody would go except for the pensioners in the JW Upper!

As has been pointed out, standing is only unsafe at the risk of some shin-scrapes. Standing areas would presumably still have seats there; so you're still allocated a seat, but allowed to stand there. There's no risk of a crush at all, so I really do not see the issue.

[Stuart]

If I sign away my right to stand, then why do we continue to do it? When we chant, we stand. When we score, we stand, nay, go mental. If I'm at the back of the tier, I stand and no-one asks me to sit. If someone's stood behind me, I can stand and no-one gives me bother. Therefore I have a right to stand when it's fine by those around me.

You do not have a right to stand within the seated areas at Ewood - or most stadia for that matter. That was your original post which was answered.

The stewards will use discretion when dealing with it but if you are asked to sit down you must comply or you can be asked to leave.

If everyone stands up in the away end, our stewards tend to turn a blind eye and prefer to let Gerald read the scripted sit down message. Do it at Old Trafford and they will start hauling you out one by one.

IIRC the club can be fined if fans persistently stand en masse throughout the game but have no responsibility for away fans.

[only2garners]

You do not have a right to stand within the seated areas at Ewood - or most stadia for that matter. That was your original post which was answered.

The stewards will use discretion when dealing with it but if you are asked to sit down you must comply or you can be asked to leave.

If everyone stands up in the away end, our stewards tend to turn a blind eye and prefer to let Gerald read the scripted sit down message. Do it at Old Trafford and they will start hauling you out one by one.

IIRC the club can be fined if fans persistently stand en masse throughout the game but have no responsibility for away fans.

Indeed Gerald's messages are to ensure that the club can be seen to be doing something about standing. If the club does nothing they will run the risk of the council taking away the safety certificate for the stadium and closing it. Clearly the club is trying to manage things reasonably under the current legislation. But it still leaves the chance for disputes between those who want to stand and those who want to or need to sit and get rightly annoyed when those in front of them stand. A defined seating area would get round this.

And to answer a point above, the plans for having removable seats a la Bundesliga model allows double the number of people standing in the same space, but in a much safer way than open terraces.

[Stuart]

And to answer a point above, the plans for having removable seats a la Bundesliga model allows double the number of people standing in the same space, but in a much safer way than open terraces.

I find this hard to believe. My seat and even plot to stand in aren't that big. Plus if they can be converted back to seats the same area is required, isn't it? The standing areas in the Bundedliga video posted don't look as though the accommodate double a seated area, it looked exactly the same size space.

[Mike E]

I was talking in more of a common sense kind of way rather than the absolute rules. Most of NO1 are stood for the whole game anyway and they're NEVER told to sit down, nor do they ever bother anyone.

Not sure why the club has no responsibilty for away fans. Yes they aren't our fans, but they ARE in our stadium so SURELY we're responsible to some extent?

ManUtd stewards chuck us out cos they're proper nazi's that lot. The stewards themselves, rather than the club. I recall seeing someone break his leg after being thrown down the steps there! Did they help him up and help him to a nearby medic? No, they dragged him there. At least our club doesn't take THAT stance on standing anyway.

[K-Hod]

I was talking in more of a common sense kind of way rather than the absolute rules. Most of NO1 are stood for the whole game anyway and they're NEVER told to sit down, nor do they ever bother anyone.

Not sure why the club has no responsibilty for away fans. Yes they aren't our fans, but they ARE in our stadium so SURELY we're responsible to some extent?

ManUtd stewards chuck us out cos they're proper nazi's that lot. The stewards themselves, rather than the club. I recall seeing someone break his leg after being thrown down the steps there! Did they help him up and help him to a nearby medic? No, they dragged him there. At least our club doesn't take THAT stance on standing anyway.

Agreed. When they've their own fans standing a few feet away!!

[Ben-2000]

83% in favour so far.

I do agree that aside from the choice fans would have, it would also minimise standing in seated area's which affects people who don't want to stand.

Anyway, keep voting!