[Archived] Rovers v Middlesbrough

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'd simply ask; if our squad is so good, why have they only played well in a couple of games all season ?

Let me give you a simple answer- I think they aren't so good and I said so when we were riding high earlier on this season. I got a bit of stick from the " Football manager 2012 " types who've never played the game at any serious level in their lives. They're all a bit quiet now though.

[G Somerset Rover]

It's absolutely not pointless Eddie. It's the whole reason we're where we are today. Team performances are the result of the way the club has been run. You surely must see that you can't simply divorce the off field situation from the onfield results. Team selection or tactics isn't the problem here Eddie. Berg doesn't have a squad at his disposal that has the elements needed to get this club out of the Championship.

Oh yes he does Den - out of the championship and into league one.

[AggyBlue]

There was an instance in the second half when Kazim was down receiving treatment for a head injury. The game was stopped for about three minutes.

Mowbray spent the three minutes on the touchline passing instructions to various Boro players.

Berg spent most of the three minutes stood impassively ten yards away stood in front of his seat. Only as play was about to resume did he approach the touchline.

Then there was farcical substitutions.

My opinion of Berg turned today.

[Amo]

It's absolutely not pointless Eddie. It's the whole reason we're where we are today. Team performances are the result of the way the club has been run. You surely must see that you can't simply divorce the off field situation from the onfield results. Team selection or tactics isn't the problem here Eddie. Berg doesn't have a squad at his disposal that has the elements needed to get this club out of the Championship.

We were auto/playoff contenders under Kean & Black. Berg comes in and now we're facing a relegation dogfight. You can say the performances under the former two were unconvincing but it's a results business - as people were wont to remind us under Allardyce. I do agree that off-field affairs are ubdoubtedly hindering the club's progress but it's certainly not the quality of the squad. These players shouldn't find themselves 17th in the Championship. A proven manager would've kept us in the chase, but then we're owned by idiots so hey ho.

[Andy]

Preston blue...I support my team and leave childish protests to people like yourself and fellow armchair fans!remember the penalty Keith fear missed at the turd in 78 to make it 0 4 pal?

What relevance does being old have to anything?

[Parsonblue]

My starting position would be that we have a top 8 squad. We are certainly underperforming by several places at the moment and our recent run is totally unacceptable with the players that we have at our disposal. It is even less acceptable when you look at the performances behind the results, which include several halves where we have failed to threaten and one or two where we have failed to even compete.

The 'some of us pointed out what would happen a long time ago' is pretty pointless. This isn't a discussion about the way the club is being run, I'm talking about performances and the team and tactics that are being used.

I'm not going to use this as an opportunity to defend Kean, but the fact remains that until he left we were challenging for the automatic promotion spots and until Berg was appointed we were challenging for the playoff spots. You can't say that every approach by every manager in the last two seasons has failed, it is Berg that is failing spectacularly at this particular moment in time when two other managers have shown that this squad is capable of challenging for promotion.

Now, this is in part due to the fact that Berg is getting none of the luck that the other two benefited from, but that only tells part of the story. He is doing a bad job and looking beyond the mess that is going on behind the scenes anyone making a decent analysis of this team would see that chopping and changing the side is unlikely to do much to help. What is he expecting? That we will win one game and he will then stick with that team and everything will be fine. We won a game, he chose the same side next out and he then changed it for the following match after a draw.

Try to find a side in the top half of either the championship or the premiership that is making two or three changes for every match. You won't be successful.

With respect, I think your argument is flawed in two areas Eddie.

Firstly, this squad is not equipped for the Championship. The type of player required to succeed at this level is different from the Premier League. The young foreign players who look to play football - Formica, Rosado, Rochina etc. - are struggling with the physical requirements of this League. Both Dalglish and Souness, the last two managers to take us into the top flight had a strong spine to their teams and experienced players who were still able to perform - Kevin Moran, Gordon Cowans, Craig Short and Henning himself to name but four. I thought Murphy played well for an about 60 minutes today and then tired and when his game started to slip so did the team. Too many of our players are found wanting and our spine is fairly weak. Today, Hanley and Dann did reasonably well and yet the goal came from the centre-back area.

Secondly, I think your argument about the various managers is equally flawed. Kean got points despite us playing poorly and enjoying a large slice of luck. Ironically, those points may well be the difference between staying in the Championship and dropping into League One. Black simply tried to shore up the defence and hoped to hit teams on the break. In the short term both managers were reasonably successful but it was never likely to be maintained.

Berg has come in and chopped and changed his side to have a look at the players that are available to him. Initially, I thought we showed signs of improvement but the players have not been capable of playing the high tempo game which Berg initially adopted. Today I thought we tried to step up the tempo and for 60/70 minutes we didn't look too bad but never really threatened to break Middlesbrough down.

We are where we are because the players have not been capable of competing in this League. The simple fact is that at the half-way stage in the season we are ten points off the bottom and a staggering 21 points off the top place. Results and performances have shown that this Rovers team is where it deserves to be - becoming embroiled in a relegation battle.

[thenodrog]

Stuart, my view has always been the same ... that a section of our support 'aided and abetted' relegation last season. I do not need to set up another account to reiterate those views.

Indeed.... the ones who welcomed the Venkymob and then saw no harm in their hatchet policy. The ones who couldn't see the damage that Kean and his agent were doing to the club. The ones who didn't lift a finger to object. The ones who thought shipping out the strongest players was a sound move cos they had a 'bad attitude' and issues with the manager and objected to what they could see was happening. The ones who thought shipping in every numerous 2nd and 3rd rate Carlos Kickaball's, has beens and never will be's on suicidal contracts would all work out OK in the end. They certainly aided and abetted relegation in my book.

[blueboy3333]

Indeed.... the ones who welcomed the Venkymob and then saw no harm in their hatchet policy. The ones who couldn't see the damage that Kean and his agent were doing to the club. The ones who didn't lift a finger to object. The ones who thought shipping out the strongest players was a sound move cos they had a 'bad attitude' and issues with the manager and objected to what they could see was happening. The ones who thought shipping in every numerous 2nd and 3rd rate Carlos Kickaball's, has beens and never will be's on suicidal contracts would all work out OK in the end. They certainly aided and abetted relegation in my book.

What a load of drivel.

Unless you missed it The Walker Trust sold to Venky's because they wanted to. Venky's then sacked the very people they stated during the takeover they would keep on, appointed a dreadful manager to replace a decent one, sold our best players, got us relegated, and have now appointed another useless manager. Hardly the fan's fault. You'd have to have a very twisted view of reality to think otherwise.

The only people to blame for the club's demise are Venky's.

[thenodrog]

I see you don't do sarcasm blueboy.

[rovermagic]

Our

[rovermagic]

Our on-paper squad is surely top half. It is hard going down and carrying expensive on-contract, older de-motivated players. Bolton and Wolves also doing poorly. I think with coaching Rhodes could be a better player than he is. He is not weak. He could hold the ball up better. In early games when Berg took over, Rochina was our key player. He could still be our best player. He should be in the side. Berg has faded very badly as a manager. He doesn't seem to be up to it. I still don't see why Formica was dropped. He ha a bit of an engine. Can attack. And will help protect his fullback. We are still so unfit. Fitness needs to be a priority. I think we stick with settled squad. Make early substitutions. Etc. but very likely Berg is not the man for the job.

[Jonny91]

We were auto/playoff contenders under Kean & Black. Berg comes in and now we're facing a relegation dogfight. You can say the performances under the former two were unconvincing but it's a results business - as people were wont to remind us under Allardyce. I do agree that off-field affairs are ubdoubtedly hindering the club's progress but it's certainly not the quality of the squad. These players shouldn't find themselves 17th in the Championship. A proven manager would've kept us in the chase, but then we're owned by idiots so hey ho.

I dnt think the quality of the players is the problem it's more there drive and motives at the moment

Even with the lack of managerial experience/ability the players don't seem to be fighting for the clubs name at the moment.

I feel that if they were up for the fight it would be shown by there display on the field but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I havnt heard any of the players come out and admit that they want to get us promoted or that there trying there best.

Unfortunitly there sitting back and letting the critisisum fall on to berg and the coaching staff.

I fell the club is divided in to many ways and no1 seems to be looking out for one another. There's no unity at the club

[blueboy3333]

I see you don't do sarcasm blueboy.

You were being sarcastic? It's not very easy to convey in print. I will make allowances for your limitations in future

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Makes you wonder why he cost 8 million doesn't it?

He cost that much because that's how much he was worth to H'field......with his goals, they could have pushed for the playoffs.......instead they will finish mid-table for the foreseeable future.

I'd simply ask; if our squad is so good, why have they only played well in a couple of games all season ?

Let me give you a simple answer- I think they aren't so good and I said so when we were riding high earlier on this season. I got a bit of stick from the " Football manager 2012 " types who've never played the game at any serious level in their lives. They're all a bit quiet now though.

Because none of the managers have gotten the best out of them.

If you asked any of the other managers in this league if they'd like either Rhodes, Givet, Martin Olsson, Vukcevic, Henley, Nuno Gomes, Murphy, Rochina or Kazim-Richards I would put any money on them saying yes to all of them.

Most would take Dann, Hanley, Dunn, Etuhu, Goodwillie, Robinson and Formica also.

[Eddie]

With respect, I think your argument is flawed in two areas Eddie.

...

We are where we are because the players have not been capable of competing in this League. The simple fact is that at the half-way stage in the season we are ten points off the bottom and a staggering 21 points off the top place. Results and performances have shown that this Rovers team is where it deserves to be - becoming embroiled in a relegation battle.

It seems that for some reason people are taking my argument and twisting it into me saying that we have the best squad in the league, that was never my point. My argument is that you can't be successful when you're changing the team every week. It is a pretty simply argument and I'll stand by it. Winning teams don't do it. Good teams don't do it. Even mildly successful bad teams don't do it. You can tweak for a game or two to find the best squad, but he has now been doing that for over 1/4 of our season, that is idiotic.

This squad certainly has some major weaknesses and needs to be strengthened, particularly in central midfield, but it is not this bad.

[philipl]

The squad is nowhere near good enough for this division.

[USABlue]

It's becoming increasingly obvious to me that the longer steve kean is gone the better he was. I am getting sick of hearing this Kean had us at the top. I don't recall one person on here who wasn't calling for his head regardless of our high flying antics. To a man it was a common view that performances were crap, we were lucky and we would soon begin to lose. Then Kean leaves and folks are up in arms about Black having a shot at the job. "If Blacks gets it I'll never go to Ewood again blah blah blah. Now, how has it changed to where all of a sudden those two, Kean and Black, are the best thing since sliced bread. I don't recall actually reading it but I swear people are acting like they'd welcome the @#/? poor excuse of a man back. Let's not forget if it was not for him we would not be here, blame Venky's, yes they are responsible too but it was his alleged fabrications and suck up tactics that put an effective and experienced manager out of a job and kept himself here a lot longer than he should have been and . Berg will not be afforded that time.

[John]

Squad is not balanced, lacking physical presence, too many unproven/average flair players, no pace.

Throw in players (and our biggest earners) who look well past their best in Murphy and Etuhu then it doesn't seem too special does it.

[Stuart]

I see you don't do sarcasm blueboy.

That's a shame.

What a great post it was too.

[AlanK]

I doubt anybody would have thought we'd gat anything at Boro today but there is the rub. Gross incompetence bordering on criminal activity has seen this situation arise. I can accept us taking our rightful place in the football heirarchy of hovering between the lower divisions cos we have simply reverted to life as it was before the intervention of Jack Walker. This is what we are and what we deserve as a small depressed northern town with a dislocated support base, but what I cannot accept is the dire financial situation the club has been put in by a combination of base greed, criminal opportunism and dire incompetence.

The club's very existence is teetering on the edge of a precipice and imo the continuation of BRFC is down to whatever patience and pride our distant owners afford us. Everything they have meddled with here has been a huge and unmitigated disaster. They are surely in a stop loss situation and I can not think of any reason why they will not accept that they have made a huge financial mistake, cut their losses, salvage whatever they can and simply pull out. It's what I felt could easily happen two years ago and common sense dictates they must.

Could not agree more. The premier league is,and I expect will be, a distant memory now. I can handle that. What I can not tolerate is the state of the club.

[riverside returns]

The team does not feature a spine of natural leaders. No spine to the team and no one to drive them on. Rectify this and we have a chance.

[Tom]

17 pages about this game

18 in the Brighton thread about a game that didn't happen

[Stuart]

Which was more controversial Tom?

A narrow defeat away at Boro, or the only club in the top two divisions without a pitch fit for use on matchday?

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Parsonblue's match report is now published to the front page here.

[Roversider]

Another grim day as a travelling Rovers fan, we were actually a better team than against Blackpool but not capable of handling any sort of difficulties, that showed when we did concede. Foir me the biggest problem is the lack of natural leadership in the team, too many players sat and observed the player on the ball instead of working like stink to make the next past easier by getting into space. Unfortunately Henning also lacked that same leadership.

Some talent amongst the youngsters but not much confidence. I thought Dunn lifted it a bit when he came on and the one positive for me was Jake Kean who was as good as any other keeper we have on the books and is definitely the one for the future.

'Boro looked pretty average even though they are up the league so it is lamentable that we aren't performing better.

Travelling numbers are down, heaven knows who will want to go to Barnsley, not me this time.