[Archived] New Manager Part 2 - With Poll

[USABlue]

I think the reaction is indicative of the general negativity which has enveloped the Club over the last couple of years (with good reason)

A few wins and Shebby not saying anything stupid for a few days and people dont know what to do with themselves, its almost like they have to invent hypothetical situations to complain about.

For the record I don't think this squad would survive in the Premiership but thats completely irrelevant as the lineup would probably look completely different to the current one if we were promoted. I do think we have 4 or 5 young gems we can build a side around, Rhodes, Rochina, Adam Henley, Martin Olsson (if he stays) and maybe Jake Kean. Maybe one or two more will emerge as well. Supplement them with the right blend of player, they wouldn't necessarily have to be world beaters per se and youve got the makings of a useful side.

One thing you missed which is critical. The right leader. I too share a little optimism with you on some of our younger players, they are not World beaters but they are still learning and if they continue to develop will be crucial to our survival. More so our homegrown talent.

[USABlue]

I think he was supposed to be in a squad in the months leading up to the World Cup but got some sort of illness which made him lose weight (I think?), so it's reasonably understandable why he wouldn't take him, having never seen him first hand.

Mind you he took Walcott four years later so what the hell do I know.

He got a stomach ailment leading up to a friendly game which he missed. Still, on his performances that season he deserved to be there ahead of the plonker whose name escapes me. Keown was it.

[RevidgeBlue]

You or I could have got that squad in to the quarter finals of a major championship. The fact he could not take then further was a failure.

I agree. I would liken it to Barcelona crashing out of the Champions League in the quarter finals on penalties when it restarts.

Would you put that down as a positive on the CV of the Barcelona manager?

Now Im not saying the 2004 England squad is as good as the current Barcelona side. But make no mistake about it the likes of Ashley Cole Terry Ferdinand Gerrard Lampard Joe Cole Beckham Scholes and and Michael Owen were phenomenal players in their prime who Sven completely failed to get any sort of tune out of at successive tournaments imo.

And when you're putting out a team like that its no good complaining youve been unlucky because youve gone out on penalties. You should have the game well and truly wrapped up in normal or extra time!

[BuckyRover]

Unbelievable.

I thought after Sven, Capello and McClaren (the odd one out) had failed with that core group of players we had come to the collective realisation that it wasn't the management that was the problem but the technical deficiency of the players (inability to retain the ball being one of the most deficient).

When those players have done well in Europe. It's always been with a supporting cast of more technically capable players.

We were knocked out by players such as Ronaldinho, (fat) Ronaldo, Cafu, Rui Costa, Figo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Deco, Carvalho, Lucio etc.

All would walk into that "Golden" England team

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I think the problem was firstly, not building your team around your best player imo, Scholes.....and secondly, playing Lampard and Gerrard together for so long when it clearly wasn't going to work.

I remember one tournament, that might have been Euro 2004, in which Scholes was pushed out to the wing to accommodate those two.....madness.

Personally, I don't think Sven did too bad of a job, I'd say he was better than Capello and obviously Shteve McClaren.....although you came pretty close to not qualifying for the 2002 World Cup....at least under Capello, you never struggled to qualify if I recall correctly.

Like BuckyRover says, if three proven managers couldn't take your team into the semi's (which you've done twice since 1966 anyway in fairness) then I don't think you can say it was always the manager's fault.

[RevidgeBlue]

Unbelievable.

I thought after Sven, Capello and McClaren (the odd one out) had failed with that core group of players we had come to the collective realisation that it wasn't the management that was the problem but the technical deficiency of the players (inability to retain the ball being one of the most deficient).

When those players have done well in Europe. It's always been with a supporting cast of more technically capable players.

We were knocked out by players such as Ronaldinho, (fat) Ronaldo, Cafu, Rui Costa, Figo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Deco, Carvalho, Lucio etc.

All would walk into that "Golden" England team

No-one could disagree that we weren't knocked out by two sides containing some very good players. However it was the nature of our performances and the manner of our exits that struck me. I would describe them as fairly dismal. My recollection is we scraped past poorer teams in the most unconvincing of fashions and as soon as we came up against a team of genuine quality Sven was found wanting on every occasion.

Imo Sven had the best of those players and their time had been and gone by the time Capello got his hands on them. McClaren, well he'd probably struggle to make the quarter final with the 1970 Brazil side!

[dwayne cage]

International football is different kettle of fish in my opinion. Plus England are cack whoever is in charge and no matter how good the players are individually they have been cack since after the semi's of 98.

Sven did good in that respect to get England that far in the competitions he did. Even got Heskey looking like he "might" score.

[Jonny91]

I'm not sure how that is even possible.

Well ur not going to talk them down if ur looking for the job

[Lhrover]

International football is different kettle of fish in my opinion. Plus England are cack whoever is in charge and no matter how good the players are individually they have been cack since after the semi's of 98.

Sven did good in that respect to get England that far in the competitions he did. Even got Heskey looking like he "might" score.

Ill have you know emile heskey has 111 premier league goals! and is currently scoring for fun in the oz!

[Stuart]

There's a surprise now they are no longer in it. Ask him if he went to follow his team last time they were i the playoffs and if so why?

Yes, she did. Because she goes to every game. She was actually glad not to have been promoted (!). You could suggest it's sour grapes (I did) but she's fairly long in the tooth and admits that she genuinely hated the experience of losing most weeks - even with the odd scalp included. There's no fun in losing, especially when you travel a long way at great expense.

[CapeTownRover]

No matter which manager is in charge of England, there are just countries whose players are much more technicall gifted and smart. The English players look awkward on the ball, seem to panic a lot when the opposition close them down, and have no character about them. Individually and collectively they fall short, as there are too many has beens in the squad.

Anyway, why exactly are we talking about team GB football not doing well?

[DE.]

Well ur not going to talk them down if ur looking for the job

I'm aware of that, I'm just surprised it's even possible to talk Venky's 'up' in footballing terms when they've done nothing but feck up ever since they showed up!

[gilly1]

shaun o driscoll for me perfect for us and hes just turned down barnsley

[thenodrog]

Jeez:....... let's worry about that if we get there eh? Players will be queueing up to sign for us if we get promoted.

Bit like complaining that you still wouldn't be able to pull Pamela Anderson if you won 100m on Euromillions!

100m? I hope I'd set the bar a little higher than Pammy Simon.

[Jimmy612]

I'm talking about surviving. I'm sure it wouldn't be comfortable but look at squads like West Brom and Norwich.

Jeez, we don't half put ourselves down. We don't need critics in the media!

Stuart, West Brom and Norwich would absolutely murder us at the moment, as i'm quite sure would any other team in the PL, possibly excluding Reading. But I think they'd probably have too much for us.

Just look at our midfield, its shocking!

[bypass06]

" I only live 10 minutes away " Phil Brown.

http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,,12606_8383115,00.html

[CapeTownRover]

Our midfield is fine, except for a quality, tough tackling holding midfielder. Our own fans sell us short, but it just takes some good organisation(which we have lacked) and we can do well.

[Stuart]

Stuart, West Brom and Norwich would absolutely murder us at the moment, as i'm quite sure would any other team in the PL, possibly excluding Reading. But I think they'd probably have too much for us.

Just look at our midfield, its shocking!

A couple of decent midfielders and I reckon we'd compete with those 3 at least.

[Jimmy612]

Our midfield is fine, except for a quality, tough tackling holding midfielder. Our own fans sell us short, but it just takes some good organisation(which we have lacked) and we can do well.

Unfortunately I didnt make the BC game as I live down South now. I did however go to the Forest game and for about 65 minutes of that game, our midfield was completely non existent. How many times was Lansbury etc allowed to dink it over towards Billy Jones, or knock it our wide to either winger, or take a shot themselves.

Even when we had the ball no-one wanted it, resulting in that berk Dann lumping it hopefully towards Rhodes, which by the way, has never and will never work.

Theres a huge amount of work to do before that squad is anywhere near Prem level, and unfortunately I feel we may have @#/? most of our resources away on wages for Murphy and Etuhu, God help us.

[Jimmy612]

A couple of decent midfielders and I reckon we'd compete with those 3 at least.

You better write a letter to Mrs D asking for some money for transfers then, becasue from what I can see she's pulling the pursestrings fully shut.

[thenodrog]

Now Im not saying the 2004 England squad is as good as the current Barcelona side. But make no mistake about it the likes of Ashley Cole Terry Ferdinand Gerrard Lampard Joe Cole Beckham Scholes and and Michael Owen were phenomenal players in their prime who Sven completely failed to get any sort of tune out of at successive tournaments imo.

They were indeed the key players although not all of them could play in the same midfield cos there needs to be a deep sitting midfielder in there. They are all goalscoring midfielders and what Ericcson couldn't see was that Owen although a fine striker was the weakness. At that time the bloke that could have won us the World Cup was Kevin Davies. Not the most mobile centre forward, not the quickest by a mile and not the most accomplished but he was the best man in the country by a mile at bossing centre halves when receiving and controlling the ball, holding it up and rolling it onto the favourite foot of one of those oncoming midfielders. SGE instead set up the team to do little else but play Owen down the channels thereby cutting out our best attacking threats. That Swedish numpty let press/media politics pick his team. Compare SGE to Sir Alf who was villified by the know nowts in the press over his decision to play without recognised wingers and to drop Jimmy Greaves. The rest as they say is history.

[thenodrog]

No matter which manager is in charge of England, there are just countries whose players are much more technicall gifted and smart.

As there were in '66.

A strong manager who selected the best players to suit his tactics rather than the 'best players' per sae had instilled a collective spirit and a strong belief into his players and that made the difference back then and a proper manager could have made the difference in 02.

An example of this was Nobby Stiles. Nobby was at best a limited footballing talent who on ability should have been nowhere near the England set up. What Stiles was good at was shadowing other players as closely as those pilot fish shadow sharks and preventing them

a. getting the ball and b. doing anything with it. Sir Alf simply used our worst player to man mark and nullify the oppositions playmaker. Not rocket science is it? Superb player that Italy's Pirlo is and even accepting the stringency of referees Pirlo would not have been allowed the freedom and space to run the game if Nobby had been given the task to stop him.

" I only live 10 minutes away " Phil Brown.

http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,,12606_8383115,00.html

He is right about us wanting a manager rather than a coach. Problem is a Football Manager is a concept the Indians struggle with.

[den]

For the record I don't think this squad would survive in the Premiership but thats completely irrelevant as the lineup would probably look completely different to the current one if we were promoted. I do think we have 4 or 5 young gems we can build a side around, Rhodes, Rochina, Adam Henley, Martin Olsson (if he stays) and maybe Jake Kean. Maybe one or two more will emerge as well. Supplement them with the right blend of player, they wouldn't necessarily have to be world beaters per se and youve got the makings of a useful side.

You might be surprised to know I don't see it that way Rev

There are huge question marks about the PL credentials of the players you name, with the exception of Olssen. For me, promotion would start with us requiring an almost totally new squad - and how much would that cost to simply stay in the PL?

[thenodrog]

You might be surprised to know I don't see it that way Rev

There are huge question marks about the PL credentials of the players you name, with the exception of Olssen. For me, promotion would start with us requiring an almost totally new squad - and how much would that cost to simply stay in the PL?

Indeed Den. Any promotion now would be on the sensible Burnley/Blackpool basis of take the money, spend nothing and run.... all the while hoping that somehow we might scrap to finish above the bottom 3 to grant us a stay of execution and another year at the honey pot. The Walker Years are just a previous chapter in the BRFC history book now I'm afraid.

[OJRovers]

I'd take promotion followed by another relegation every time. The money for finishing bottom, plus the boosted parachute payments would be the difference between us going bankrupt or potentially some decent owners coming in and buying us.

On the subject of new manager, a couple of Leicester fans at work were ok with Sven and thought he did ok with them in the circumstances.My reversation about Sven is the links to SEM.