[Archived] Squad still rubbish?

[AJW]

On top of that, I think people were still comparing it to a Premier League squad.

If you're organised, fit and motivated, you're more than half way there in this league.

Add a bit of quality, which I don't see how anyone could deny we have, and we could feasibly go on a run of 6/7/8 wins in a row.

Nail , hammer , head

we HAVE the quality , what we havnt had so far this season is Organisation , fitness and too many players lacking motivation , reverse these and we have the best squad in the league

[LeChuck]

Nail , hammer , head

we HAVE the quality , what we havnt had so far this season is Organisation , fitness and too many players lacking motivation , reverse these and we have the best squad in the league

But we have one massive hole in the squad that almost all successful Championship teams have - Championship experience. You look at the vast majority of clubs that go up and they're full of players who understand the lower divisions.

Who do we have that we can say are genuinely experienced in this division? I'd say only Dann, Kazim-Richards and Best. But none of those have been playing in this division recently either.

[Rover_Shaun]

Nail , hammer , head

we HAVE the quality , what we havnt had so far this season is Organisation , fitness and too many players lacking motivation , reverse these and we have the best squad in the league

In your wildest dreams maybe. In reality we are were we deserve to be

[Siriwan]

But we have one massive hole in the squad that almost all successful Championship teams have - Championship experience. You look at the vast majority of clubs that go up and they're full of players who understand the lower divisions.

Who do we have that we can say are genuinely experienced in this division? I'd say only Dann, Kazim-Richards and Best. But none of those have been playing in this division recently either.

I've always been curious about how does that "experience in the Championship" translate in the pitch. I mean, it's still football, 90 minutes-long games; in which sense do the games differ from those played in the Premiership?

[CapeTownRover]

We have the best squad in this division, only problem is, that we don't have players who want to dirty their shirts and shorts. This is one of the toughest leagues to get out of, it takes more than a bit skill, but it requires a few tough players to get stuck in. Like I said before, our players have become softies. For a big guy like Etuhu to be knocked off the ball by a few small light weights, well that says it all imo.

[LeChuck]

I've always been curious about how does that "experience in the Championship" translate in the pitch. I mean, it's still football, 90 minutes-long games; in which sense do the games differ from those played in the Premiership?

I don't fully understand it myself, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest it's the case.

Perhaps it's a mentality thing? Players who have been playing in the Championship for a few years and performing well will believe that they deserve a crack at the PL and will be busting a gut to get there. If you have number of those players in the squad then that creates a mentality that will run throughout, especially if your stronger personalities are included in this group.

Look at Cardiff - Hudson, Turner, Noone, Whittingham, Conway, Gunnarsson....consistently some of the best Championship players over the last few years and will be desperate to make the step up, driven by the likes of Hudson and Turner who seem great leaders.

We didn't sign a single player in the summer (perhaps with the exception of Rhodes) that had that mentality - past it PL players or young foreigners with no idea of English football. Probably the reason we appear to be missing a backbone in comparison to other Championship clubs.

[Siriwan]

I don't fully understand it myself, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest it's the case.

Perhaps it's a mentality thing? Players who have been playing in the Championship for a few years and performing well will probably believe they deserve a crack at the PL and will be busting a gut to get there.

You are probably right. And I guess the opposite is true too: players used to be in the Premiership become less motivated when they have to play in a lower division, although it can work the other way too: being eager to return to top flight ASAP.

[CapeTownRover]

Agree LeC. Its those players who have never played in the PL, who are going all out to live their dream. Teams who get relegated, those players normally leave the club in any case. Those who stay behind, somehow lose interest, as they feel they are better than the championship.

[den]

All this is based on nothing more than an iffy win at Barnsley and a win against Forest - where both sides were pretty dire for one hour?

What will happen when we start outplaying sides?

[Mike E]

I

I was supporting Rovers when that meant going to Oldham, Bury, Rochdale, Halifax, Southport, etc. I'm still a supporter now that's why I'm writing this at the moment. Does being a supporter mean having your eyes closed, or your football brain switched off ? Are we not allowed to tell it like it is ? I'd love the current team to go on a 20 game unbeaten run and shoot right up the table, but the evidence of my eyes and brain tell me it isn't going to happen. If we could get a couple of reliable replacements in the key positions ( we all know what they are ) we'd have a chance but now our " management " have kiboshed that we'll have settle for mid table mediocracy.

Please tell me where I said supporting the team was blind optimism? Ofc you can be critical of the team as long you still support the team; the 2 aren't mutually exclusive. I forget who it was I initially criticised but his post was along the lines of 'the squad is crap, why should I support them?'

My point to him was that they are your team therefore you support them no matter what. Doesn't mean you can't criticise, ofc.

[AlanK]

Our squad has been strenghtened

http://www.rovers.co.uk/news/article/anderson-leaves-579134.aspx

[greco]

their work place and its enviroment went from world class, to complete chaos, in a matter of days. None of us keyboard warriors would find that inspiriring or motivational, so why the @#/? would they.?

Us mere mortals would still need the work, so in general we would just keep going, but these guys dont need the cash. Tthey need a leader of men and club structure they have faith in. Right now they have a global idiot in charge ffs. and a mental midget who harassed the clubs fans to protect kean.!

People are forgetting what kinda circumstances these guys work under. Our team will not perfom to the best of its abilities, before the management acts professionel.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

All this is based on nothing more than an iffy win at Barnsley and a win against Forest - where both sides were pretty dire for one hour?

What will happen when we start outplaying sides?

You can admit you were wrong

[JAL]

Put simply the CM's & Cb's (perhaps the most important areas of the pitch) are just not good enough to get us promoted. Lowe was poor saturday again, I don't see what he offers, he threatens to tackle... never does, his first 2/3 passes went straight out of play and if he does pass its either sideways or backwards (Keith Andrews anyone?) doesn't score goals, doesn't take set pieces... So i'm at a loss why he gets picked. Same goes for Dickson, his performance against Blackpool was the single worst performance I've ever seen from a Rovers player.

I have little faith in Dann & Hanley, i feel a little sorry for grant because he's never really had the opportunity to go out on loan before being thrown into our starting 11. Dann on the other hand, I really cant stand to watch him play football. I lost count of the amount of times he played lofted balls into the middle of the pitch for nobody on Saturday... Thus inviting play straight back at us, he does this week in week out. It's as if he's bought into his own hype from his Birmingham days when he had interest from Liverpool & Arsenal... They didn't buy him for one very good reason.

A leader needs to be brought in at CB to replace Gael and a ball winning CM to protect the back 4 is desperately needed. If we can do this in the transfer window i think we'll start to see the best of our offensive players (Rochina, King, Vucka etc...) as it will bread confidence and expression into their football with having defensive minded players to rely on if "it doesn't come off".

Fingers crossed.

Word for word totally agree Neal.

[Rover_Shaun]

What will happen when we start outplaying sides?

Hell freezes?

[Mafioso]

The way our SQUAD looks ON PAPER and the way the TEAM is PERFORMING are on two seperate wavelengths altogether...

If you look at the (slightly optimistic) squad on paper we have a former England GK (until quite recently) and promising young GK ready to replace him.

Pace to burn at wing back, both sides. A leader in Givet at CB and 2 CB who although can stink many times have also given a few decent performances (at this level)

For once in a very long time we have the option of playing wingers that have pace or wingers that are less likely to beat a man with pace but are better footballers ala Vukcevic/Formica.

We also have flair in the shape of a raw Ruben Rochina, an experienced David Dunn and the even raw-er (?) but promising Fabio Nunes.

Central midfield SHOULD have been our strongest point. It was tackled early in the campaign yet somehow it has all gone wrong. Im sure im not the only one who was extactic at the idea of Dickson Etuhu ripping the ball out of opponents feet laying it on to Danny Murphy who would open up play Tugayesquely... wishful thinking! Lowe is still young and offers energy, which all our CM seriously lack, eventhough we have the next Gattuso somewhere around the club..

Upfront we have Jordan Rhodes who's scoring for fun. Even though its a huge sum to pay, luckily it has turned out well, plus its probably the first transfer in quite a while (im probably forgetting clear examples) where we have strengthened our squad and seriously weakened direct oposition. Huddersfield where riding high at the start of the season, so maybe with them having JR banging them in and us having Best out injured and relying on Nuno CKR and maybe Simon Cox or someone similar they would have been a much greater threat.

We have a prem quality striker in Best who is going to be like a new signing in Jan. Plus experience AND goals from Nuno Gomes.

In all honesty as badly as we have played this season, there isnt too much i would change with the squad. As all of the members here have said CM and CB should be our priorities. Lets hope they are taken care of...

[den]

You can admit you were wrong

You might say about what?

[dazmaz]

People expect all players to give 100% all of the time, and while they are not wrong with this you should flip the coin and see what you would do.

Would anyone here honesly bust a gut and go above and behond in a job or company they are not happy working for? or would you just go to work, do the bare minimum then go home with their wage? Im willing to bet that vast majority are alrerady doing the latter

On paper our squad is far better that most in the league however if the players are not happy or motivated then they will play poor, just like we would not do an awful lot at our place of work under similar circumstances.

[aletheia]

Put simply the CM's & Cb's (perhaps the most important areas of the pitch) are just not good enough to get us promoted. Lowe was poor saturday again, I don't see what he offers, he threatens to tackle... never does, his first 2/3 passes went straight out of play and if he does pass its either sideways or backwards (Keith Andrews anyone?) doesn't score goals, doesn't take set pieces... So i'm at a loss why he gets picked. Same goes for Dickson, his performance against Blackpool was the single worst performance I've ever seen from a Rovers player.

I have little faith in Dann & Hanley, i feel a little sorry for grant because he's never really had the opportunity to go out on loan before being thrown into our starting 11. Dann on the other hand, I really cant stand to watch him play football. I lost count of the amount of times he played lofted balls into the middle of the pitch for nobody on Saturday... Thus inviting play straight back at us, he does this week in week out. It's as if he's bought into his own hype from his Birmingham days when he had interest from Liverpool & Arsenal... They didn't buy him for one very good reason.

A leader needs to be brought in at CB to replace Gael and a ball winning CM to protect the back 4 is desperately needed. If we can do this in the transfer window i think we'll start to see the best of our offensive players (Rochina, King, Vucka etc...) as it will bread confidence and expression into their football with having defensive minded players to rely on if "it doesn't come off".

Fingers crossed.

He does this all the time and I agree, it's one of the most infuriating things I've seen in a Rovers shirt.

It's the casual manner in which he does it that really gets to me. He strolls out with the ball quite slowly, then just plays this slow, chipped, aimless ball into the middle and the opposition immediately have possession again.

I don't understand why nobody has stopped telling him to do this.

On the evidence of the forest game I disagree with this. Dann is criticised for aimless lofted balls upfront-I perceived that differently. Time and time again, he was clearly looking to play the ball out from defence because he is smart enough to realise that a punt up to Rhodes is not what the young lad wants only to find that nobody was available short. Rochina goes missing and has little positional sense, Murphy and Lowe not around, Kazim also too far away for an easy pass. So the only options are sideways (to be greeted by the moronic fans urging us to “get it forward” as though we are in the 1950s). In the end, on lots of occasions, Dann attempted a shortish scooped pass to say Kaz or Rochina rather than an out and out high punt that could be done to say another ‘typical’ number 9. This still usually meant that the opposition got the ball straight back and Dann looked stupid. Several times Dann looked exasperated by the lack of option for a pass –it was inevitable that he would eventually go long.

A few other things that I seem to see differently to others from the Forest game. Lowe is limited in terms of doing things with the ball but does offer energy and cover for the ageing legs of Murphy. Rochina is clueless positionally and in terms of playing for a team –even his goal was due to the fact that he had lost the ball when a simple pass was on. He may have been injured but I would have taken him off anyway since we were being destroyed on that flank where he should have been covering. Gamst may or may not be leggy now but he knows how to play in a unit.

The side may look ok on paper but doesn’t work as a unit. It cannot play a short game since the players don’t play close enough in 3s or 4s –the shape is straight lines. The long game is obviously pretty pointless if centred around Jordan. We can be ok on the counter but look pretty hapless if the onus is on us. In the first half, Olsen made 3 great overlaps only for King/Kazim to ignore him and attempt the spectacular. 2 goals came from the times we got decent balls in from the wings –Henley for Kazim and Gamst for Jordan’s excellent finish. As others have said, we have a class striker but no system for using him effectively.

I agree with others on fitness and decent management but I also agree that the squad needs some strengthening, pace and leadership.

[philipl]

Givet about to be sold.

What happens if Dann gets injured?

We play a teenage cb.

Ok we have a history of gems coming through young but that is one almighty risk considering the ages of Hanley Henley Kean and Lowe all round him.

[den]

We continue along the same path into the abyss Philip. It will never change under these owners.

[thenodrog]

We continue along the same path into the abyss Philip. It will never change under these owners.

In fairness these are imo signs that the owners have at last grasped the fact that we aren't good enough to get back in the Prem and that our financial situation is beyond dire. I hope it's causing them significant worry and much reflection on how plain @#/? stupid they have been in thinking they know best about running a football club in England.

[Rover_Shaun]

I hope it's causing them significant worry and much reflection on how plain @#/? stupid they have been in thinking they know best about running a football club in England.

I'm sure as I type they don't really give a f**k

[JAL]

Givet about to be sold. What happens if Dann gets injured? We play a teenage cb. Ok we have a history of gems coming through young but that is one almighty risk considering the ages of Hanley Henley Kean and Lowe all round him.

A mid table championship team has nothing to lose by blooding them dont see your problem here.

[Mike E]

A mid table championship team has nothing to lose by blooding them dont see your problem here.

Good point. If givet leaves, I'd be happy to see o'connell and edwards given a go. Ditto raheem hanley in midfield ahead of lowe on occasion. Something of a powerhouse like steven reid was for us (when he was fit).