[Archived] Michael Appleton - New Rovers Manager

[jim mk2]

I can't accept that Kean's teams were anything other than dire Jim, but my main point was how we've been since relegation. We don't have Yakubu and other players now that Kean had at his disposal. Which games, this season under any of our managers, have we created a lot of chances?

Peterborough away. Should have been 7 or 8.

Where did I say I would come with suggestions on how to get this squad dominating matches? I think we're both in agreement that we've been poor all season barring the odd game (Peterborough, Bristol City, Notts Forest, Barnsley). Bowyer did however manage to get us creating more than we are at present, whilst keeping us relatively tight if we're being really picky, but Berg and Kean had us all over the place.

Next season as the majority of us are saying, is the acid test for Appleton.

No doubt he will be in charge next season but if he had anything about him Rovers would be creating more and playing much better now.

[scotty_beam_me_up]

The last two games have summed up Appleton for me = clueless.

Seems some people are waiting for him to fail. It takes more than 6 weeks to change 2 years of complete Mismanagement. He has identified the problems we have all seen over the last 2 years. It will take at least one pre season to bring in the right mix.

No one can tell me we aren't better off now than we were before he joined.

[den]

Peterborough away. Should have been 7 or 8.

Yeah, knew that would be mentioned. Any team would have beaten that particular Peterborough side easily Jim, as you know. That's about it though. My point is quite simple really, Appleton, or any manager is going to struggle making a team that contains no creativity whatsoever in central midfield, coupled with strikers who can't hold the ball up, dominate games and score goals. None of the managers so far this season have managed it on anything like a regular basis. With the current squad available, no one will.

[G Somerset Rover]

You said he set the team up negatively, so I assumed you had ideas how he could improve our attacking qualities. No, I don't remember Bowyers saide being more creative. Many said he sorted the defence out, but not so much the offensive side.

Sorry if it comes over as a personal dig, it was intended more as a general point to those who say he's deliberately negative.

No worries Den. Bowyer's Rovers put 3 past Barnsley and Notts Forest, with a further 2 against Bristol City (Appleton mirrored the Bristol City scoreline in the league mind) in his limited time in charge, so the stats would certainly back it up.

I keep mentioning 'next season', but the expectation will certainly then be for the team to look to dominate games should we keep the majority of our players fit and finally plug our whole in central midfield.

[den]

The teams we've created against have been mentioned as Barnsley and Peterborough, both bottom of the league at the time.

[scotty_beam_me_up]

Don't agree with much of this. Kean's teams usually created plenty of chances in alot of games (the problems were at the other end as we all know) and in some matches we played very well, especially away from home. One that sticks in the mind is the Norwich match last season when we were the better team by far and were leading 3-1 with 8 minutes left only to draw 3-3. I enjoyed the home win over Swansea last year too. This season Berg's team was all over an admittedly poor Peterborough side.

Appleton as a player was hard-tackling midfielder / defender (a bit of a thug according to my West Brom-supporting pal) and he obviously knows how to set up a team to defend. If he really is a one-trick pony however he won't last long as a manager.

For every game we created a few chances there are games like Spurs away when we failed to have a single shot. The Peterborough game is a bit of a red herring as they have more goals in their games than most teams in the league.

The safety first tact taken by Appleton is used by most managers when they first take over at clubs with problems. He has said himself if you don't concede you don't lose. Once confidence comes so will expansive football.

[LeChuck]

I keep mentioning 'next season', but the expectation will certainly then be for the team to look to dominate games should we keep the majority of our players fit and finally plug our whole in central midfield.

The expecation is to dominate?

I would have hoped by now that people would have stopped underestimating this league.

[G Somerset Rover]

The expecation is to dominate?

I would have hoped by now that people would have stopped underestimating this league.

That surely would be the expectation for the majority of home games at least if Venkys invested a decent amount on central midfield, we kept the majority of our big players fit, and signed a few of the current guys on loan once more. A lot of ifs there, but all possible.

[LeChuck]

That surely would be the expectation for the majority of home games at least if Venkys invested a decent amount on central midfield, we kept the majority of our big players fit, and signed a few of the current guys on loan once more. A lot of ifs there, but all possible.

Hardly any teams dominate this league, even the ones that get promoted. Those that do have usually been sustained challengers for many years, not a club trying to recover from two years of bad management.

It's a seriously tough league to get out of, and a team can beat any other team on a given day. We won't be dominating games on a regular basis next season, I can gurantee that. The key to getting out of this league is to pinch games when they are tight, because the majority of them are. That's what Hull have done so effectively this season.

Why should we have any more right to dominate games than the three who come down, Bolton, Wolves, Nottingham Forest, Leeds, Middlesbrough, Derby, Birmingham, Ipswich etc?

[Joar]

Anyone wondered how Gomes would do in a central midfield/advanced midfield role? He may not have the pace anymore, but maybe he has the footballing brain to adapt to a less advanced position. And the positioning to make up for a lack of pace. He certainly has the strength to hold up the ball, and I assume he can still make a decent pass. I haven't actually seen him play for years though, so maybe I'm being unrealistic here.

[den]

Hardly any teams dominate this league, even the ones that get promoted. Those that do have usually been sustained challengers for many years, not a club trying to recover from two years of bad management.

It's a seriously tough league to get out of, and a team can beat any other team on a given day. We won't be dominating games on a regular basis next season, I can gurantee that. The key to getting out of this league is to pinch games when they are tight, because the majority of them are. That's what Hull have done so effectively this season.

Why should we have any more right to dominate games than the three who come down, Bolton, Wolves, Nottingham Forest, Leeds, Middlesbrough, Derby, Birmingham, Ipswich etc?

I do agree that we shouldn't automatically expect to dominate next season, because we've seen no signs of it so far this season. However LeChuck, it isn't a seriously tough league, it's the exact opposite - it's a very, very poor league. The standard of football that I've seen has been abysmal, when compared to the PL. Most current PL clubs would walk this division.

[darrenrover]

I do agree that we shouldn't automatically expect to dominate next season, because we've seen no signs of it so far this season. However LeChuck, it isn't a seriously tough league, it's the exact opposite - it's a very, very poor league. The standard of football that I've seen has been abysmal, when compared to the PL. Most current PL clubs would walk this division.

I'd be inclined to agree with you den, this season has been more down to our inability as opposed to the opposition.

With what has been spent in terms of investment we have been seriously short changed.

Hopefully the Club have got back to trying to get the basics right first, assemble a TEAM, not a large bunch of individuals. For me that just doesn't apply to the playing squad but the club as a whole from top to bottom.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I do agree that we shouldn't automatically expect to dominate next season, because we've seen no signs of it so far this season. However LeChuck, it isn't a seriously tough league, it's the exact opposite - it's a very, very poor league. The standard of football that I've seen has been abysmal, when compared to the PL. Most current PL clubs would walk this division.

Then why are the three relegated teams - who all held onto a large % of their first team players in the mid to lower half of the table ?

The standard of football is generally poor as you say - but the effort, organisation and fitness is largely very good. The style of football is also very different - where most Premiership teams will stand off players - most Championship teams are in your face all the time. Appleton's tactics are negative - but with the right attacking players - keeping a good defence will win more matches than we lose. Having said that - we should have the players to actualy keep possession a lot more than we do - and there is still a distinct lack of pass and move. I don't like to single out individuals - but Murphy is the weak link at the moment as he doesn't have the athletism for this league.

[gumboots]

I do like to single out Murphy as I have yet to see him put in a decent shift or play well under any of the managers we have had this season. I'm not usually one who picks on players but in Murphy's case I'm quite happy to make an exception.

[den]

Then why are the three relegated teams - who all held onto a large % of their first team players in the mid to lower half of the table ?

The standard of football is generally poor as you say - but the effort, organisation and fitness is largely very good. The style of football is also very different - where most Premiership teams will stand off players - most Championship teams are in your face all the time. Appleton's tactics are negative - but with the right attacking players - keeping a good defence will win more matches than we lose. Having said that - we should have the players to actualy keep possession a lot more than we do - and there is still a distinct lack of pass and move. I don't like to single out individuals - but Murphy is the weak link at the moment as he doesn't have the athletism for this league.

I said "most current PL clubs". As for rovers being where we are, well we were truly awful weren't we. 8 defeats out of the last 9 games told us that.

TBH, rather than underestimating this league as LeChuck says some fans do, I think I overestimated how good it was. Last time we were in this division, we came second with a squad of players that were better than the team that Kean relegated. The three seasons when we got to the play offs, the standard of football was higher as well - Crystal Palace who beat us in the last of the play offs, had Wright, Bright and a few other top players - I think? That quality of player isn't around the Championship any more, - the big clubs snap them up straight away, just as they snap any promising lower league youngster up as soon as he shows anything at all.

Nor do I accept that most PL teams stand off sides. I reckon that a myth.

[jim mk2]

I do agree that we shouldn't automatically expect to dominate next season, because we've seen no signs of it so far this season. However LeChuck, it isn't a seriously tough league, it's the exact opposite - it's a very, very poor league. The standard of football that I've seen has been abysmal, when compared to the PL. Most current PL clubs would walk this division.

It may be a poor league but the managers in it aren't daft. Rovers made an excellent start to the season under Kean because they didn't know how to play us but they soon cottoned on to our weaknesses and adjusted their tactics accordingly. It's a long, hard slog to get out of this league and it takes guts and determination and knowledgeable, astute manager.

[den]

It may be a poor league but the managers in it aren't daft. Rovers made an excellent start to the season under Kean because they didn't know how to play us but they soon cottoned on to our weaknesses and adjusted their tactics accordingly. It's a long, hard slog to get out of this league and it takes guts and determination and knowledgeable, astute manager.

I can't disagree with any of that. It has to be taken into consideration that you were against Appleton from day one though Jim.

[Philly13]

Hardly any teams dominate this league, even the ones that get promoted. Those that do have usually been sustained challengers for many years, not a club trying to recover from two years of bad management.

It's a seriously tough league to get out of, and a team can beat any other team on a given day. We won't be dominating games on a regular basis next season, I can gurantee that. The key to getting out of this league is to pinch games when they are tight, because the majority of them are. That's what Hull have done so effectively this season.

Why should we have any more right to dominate games than the three who come down, Bolton, Wolves, Nottingham Forest, Leeds, Middlesbrough, Derby, Birmingham, Ipswich etc?

So basically it comes down to a lot of luck.

[darrenrover]

It may be a poor league but the managers in it aren't daft. Rovers made an excellent start to the season under Kean because they didn't know how to play us but they soon cottoned on to our weaknesses and adjusted their tactics accordingly. It's a long, hard slog to get out of this league and it takes guts and determination and knowledgeable, astute manager.

It's not a poor league unless you draw a direct comparison with The PL.

A well organised, fit team with the added bonus of quality as a consequence of the additional financial advantage should walk this league. The fact that we haven't says it all about those in high places that hopefully are either departed or rendered dysfunctional.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I said "most current PL clubs". As for rovers being where we are, well we were truly awful weren't we. 8 defeats out of the last 9 games told us that.

TBH, rather than underestimating this league as LeChuck says some fans do, I think I overestimated how good it was. Last time we were in this division, we came second with a squad of players that were better than the team that Kean relegated. The three seasons when we got to the play offs, the standard of football was higher as well - Crystal Palace who beat us in the last of the play offs, had Wright, Bright and a few other top players - I think? That quality of player isn't around the Championship any more, - the big clubs snap them up straight away, just as they snap any promising lower league youngster up as soon as he shows anything at all.

Nor do I accept that most PL teams stand off sides. I reckon that a myth.

Ask some of our players whether they feel this is a myth or not. In the Premiership teams are wary to tackle for fear of yellow cards - no such worries in the Championship were refs are far more lenient.

Never like to compare teams from years ago like the Palace team of Wight etc - but lets not forget how we managed to get into the play offs with crowds of around 8K - and absolutely minimal budget. Today you have a number of teams spending millions in the Championship - even one was daft enough to spend £8m on one player !

Also - yes Premiership clubs do snap up have decent youngsters - but lets not forget they then loan them back to the Championship ! You even have teams like Watford that could potentially get promoted with a team made up largely of players from Italy on loan !

[imy9]

Peterborough away. Should have been 7 or 8.

No doubt he will be in charge next season but if he had anything about him Rovers would be creating more and playing much better now.

Two years of rubbish management, poor signings, uneven squad and poor fitness of the team, injuries to key players and within 11 games we should be playing better and creating more if Appleton had anything about him??

The games are coming quick and fast at the moment so doubt Appleton can do much about the style of play. A pre season, clearing of players and purchasing of others and getting the players will mean 10-15 games into next season IMO we can judge him properly.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Peterborough away. Should have been 7 or 8.

No doubt he will be in charge next season but if he had anything about him Rovers would be creating more and playing much better now.

Though I have my doubts about MA - I think you are being a little harsh. Even Mark Hughes took us a while to get going - and you can't undo a poor pre-season preparation and fitness overnight. He needs to be given a pre-season - but I would agree that we have taken on another "project" manager with equally inexperienced back-room staff. Still - I think he deserves time - but when you looked at the team that started against Leeds - they were largely ex-Premiership players - even under new management we are still underachieving.

[Rover_Shaun]

Xmas is a good line to draw in the sand....is it not?

[den]

Ask some of our players whether they feel this is a myth or not. In the Premiership teams are wary to tackle for fear of yellow cards - no such worries in the Championship were refs are far more lenient.

Never like to compare teams from years ago like the Palace team of Wight etc - but lets not forget how we managed to get into the play offs with crowds of around 8K - and absolutely minimal budget. Today you have a number of teams spending millions in the Championship - even one was daft enough to spend £8m on one player !

Also - yes Premiership clubs do snap up have decent youngsters - but lets not forget they then loan them back to the Championship ! You even have teams like Watford that could potentially get promoted with a team made up largely of players from Italy on loan !

Of course it's a myth. The English Premier league is the hardest league of all to play in, that's because the pace of it is frenetic and the main reason why so many TV companies world wide screen it and so many foreign players can't hack it. The pace of the English Premier League has been recognised for many, many years.

Start with park football then go up through the leagues. The next league up is always harder because you are playing against better players and the pace of the game is faster. That's not just true of football, but of any sport. There's no more reason to think that the PL clubs allow opposition players more time on the ball, than there is reason to think that Championship clubs give Championship players more time. Premier League players are in general technically better and faster than players from the lower leagues.

I can only imagine some folk see top players looking like they have plenty of time on the ball and believe that it's because the opposition are laying off them. In truth, that happens at every level.

[Rover_Shaun]

Tim Sherwood couldn't cope with the 2nd Division