[Archived] Michael Appleton - New Rovers Manager

[patrickvalery]

Rochina showed his pedigree on numerous occasions. It was his overall decision-making that let him down.

Which, if you look back at my first post, was what i said. The trouble is he didnt ever do it consistently. A killer ball against Peterborough, A wonder goal against Stoke....... But in games like the Leicester one earlier this week, he would have been a liability. You couldnt trust him to put in a disciplined shift. The raw essentials are there. No dount about it. But he doesnt know when and where to use it. Even Berg, who wanted to build the side around him, quickly realised he was too inconsistent and you couldnt rely on his performance.

[Amo]

Which, if you look back at my first post, was what i said. The trouble is he didnt ever do it consistently. A killer ball against Peterborough, A wonder goal against Stoke....... But in games like the Leicester one earlier this week, he would have been a liability. You couldnt trust him to put in a disciplined shift. The raw essentials are there. No dount about it. But he doesnt know when and where to use it. Even Berg, who wanted to build the side around him, quickly realised he was too inconsistent and you couldnt rely on his performance.

You tried to make out that fans only gave Rochina a break because he was a Barcelona product and not some kid from Donny. And without stating the obvious again, there's a good reason for that.

Like quite a few players over the last couple of years, I'd say it's difficult to judge Rochina's potential considering he's never had a proven manager handle his integration into the English game.

[den]

You tried to make out that fans only gave Rochina a break because he was a Barcelona product and not some kid from Donny. And without stating the obvious again, there's a good reason for that.

Like quite a few players over the last couple of years, I'd say it's difficult to judge Rochina's potential considering he's never had a proven manager handle his integration into the English game.

It's up to Rochina to show his potential on the pitch, there's nothing a manager can do then. .......and I can't believe none of those managers, including Guardiola, have tried to get him to part with the ball a bit earlier.

[LDRover]

Not only that, he was taking over a team on a decent run as well.

[Jimmy612]

Not only that, he was taking over a team on a decent run as well.

Albeit a team that by all accounts appeared to be unhappy to lose Gary Bowyer. That must have been quite an obstacle when he first arrived don't you think?

[Amo]

It's up to Rochina to show his potential on the pitch, there's nothing a manager can do then. .......and I can't believe none of those managers, including Guardiola, have tried to get him to part with the ball a bit earlier.

Cristiano Ronaldo showed frustrating potential too, but it wasn't until Fergie nurtured him at OT that he grew into the complete player. Would you dispute that, den?

[jim mk2]

It's up to Rochina to show his potential on the pitch, there's nothing a manager can do then. .......and I can't believe none of those managers, including Guardiola, have tried to get him to part with the ball a bit earlier.

The young Ryan Giggs used to run with the ball too much in his own half and was given strict instructions by United coaches only to run with it in his opponents' half.

Simple orders which Giggs because he is intelligent and was eager to improve soon learnt to assimiliate into his play.

Rochina must have been told countless times by coaches to keep it simple in danger areas but while with us continued to make mistakes and the wrong decisions.

Perhaps he didn't improve with us because he's thick.

[den]

Cristiano Ronaldo showed frustrating potential too, but it wasn't until Fergie nurtured him at OT that he grew into the complete player. Would you dispute that, den?

No, but obviously Ronaldo listened and learned. Explain to me why Rochina doesn't do the same, because he will have been told to play it simple under every manager he's played under [except possibly Keanhead].

[onlyonejackwalker]

Albeit a team that by all accounts appeared to be unhappy to lose Gary Bowyer. That must have been quite an obstacle when he first arrived don't you think?

Agreed. Anyone remember Murphy's comments when first interviewed. Dont know much about him...respect to Bowyer and his team...

The young Ryan Giggs used to run with the ball too much in his own half and was given strict instructions by United coaches only to run with it in his opponents' half.

Simple orders which Giggs because he is intelligent and was eager to improve soon learnt to assimiliate into his play.

Rochina must have been told countless times by coaches to keep it simple in danger areas but while with us continued to make mistakes and the wrong decisions.

Perhaps he didn't improve with us because he's thick.

That was the only conclusion that made any sense to me as well.

[Tom]

Always though the Bowyer run has been overhyped

The win against Forest was great but we didn't play any better than other games we just took advantage after a lucky goal (the only difference in tht game and the Charlton and Millwall games up to half time were the latter two scored world class goals in the first half whereas forest wasted their chances), Barnsley were in crisis and we got played off the park against wolves away.

As good as its got maybe but nothing to suggest it would have carried on that way

Tomorrow is a game we all expect us to go and win, should we sit back all game the manager will open himself up to criticism and pose questions about his tactical nouse beyond keeping it tight

Big day for him little to gain and a lot to lose

[patrickvalery]

You tried to make out that fans only gave Rochina a break because he was a Barcelona product and not some kid from Donny. And without stating the obvious again, there's a good reason for that.

Like quite a few players over the last couple of years, I'd say it's difficult to judge Rochina's potential considering he's never had a proven manager handle his integration into the English game.

My point was that the levels of forgiveness and duration which Rochina was afforded to become a better player was down to the fact he is Spanish and came from Barcelona. I'm not sure the same luxury would be afforded to someone with a less 'exotic' or cultured background. That is blind optimism i'm afraid. When he first arrived i felt he had something about him. He may well still go on to become a good player. But i didnt see much progression in his game. He continued to make stupid mistakes and cost us possession if not always points. People talk about his creative talents a lot too. Maybe i'm missing it, but i didnt see much of that either.

I can't really believe that the likes of Ronaldo and Giggs have been used as examples of players who were wet behind the ears but went on to hit stardom. For every Ronaldo or Giggs there are hundreds if not thousands of other kids who were niaive and still didnt make it. Those two are special special talents. If Rochina goes on to hit those heights then i will gracefully admit i was wrong. But if he is to emulate that then the next 2-3 years need to be monumental in terms of his learning curve. At times Rochina was a pleasure to watch. Lovely neat touch and he struck a football as well as anyone. But in this league against sides who hassle and press you for 90 mins, he was ineffective.

[USABlue]

How strange our new astute manager rids the club of anyone with an ounce of creativity and since they have gone we have created how many chances. Odd that isn't it. Bloody hell. I think Rochina's problem is he thinks he's something he is not. The lad has it he just seemed to not want to be part of a unit. I'll remember for a long time that pass he played for Rhodes to score, but also remember him giving the ball away for the opposition to score.

[chaddyrovers]

How strange our new astute manager rids the club of anyone with an ounce of creativity and since they have gone we have created how many chances. Odd that isn't it. Bloody hell. I think Rochina's problem is he thinks he's something he is not. The lad has it he just seemed to not want to be part of a unit. I'll remember for a long time that pass he played for Rhodes to score, but also remember him giving the ball away for the opposition to score.

Rochina a luxury player we cannot afford in the championship. not very good defensively and gives the ball away far too much or try to beat too many mens then gets tackled.

great talent but more sorted to Spanish football. shame but honest

[T.J.Newton]

Rochina a luxury player we cannot afford in the championship. not very good defensively and gives the ball away far too much or try to beat too many mens then gets tackled.

great talent but more sorted to Spanish football. shame but honest

nobody has needlessly given the ball away more this season than Lowe & Murphy at least Rochina scored and created a few to try and re-address the balance.

[LDRover]

Albeit a team that by all accounts appeared to be unhappy to lose Gary Bowyer. That must have been quite an obstacle when he first arrived don't you think?

Agreed. Not insurmountable for a good man manager though.

[Amo]

My point was that the levels of forgiveness and duration which Rochina was afforded to become a better player was down to the fact he is Spanish and came from Barcelona. I'm not sure the same luxury would be afforded to someone with a less 'exotic' or cultured background. That is blind optimism i'm afraid. When he first arrived i felt he had something about him. He may well still go on to become a good player. But i didnt see much progression in his game. He continued to make stupid mistakes and cost us possession if not always points. People talk about his creative talents a lot too. Maybe i'm missing it, but i didnt see much of that either.

Disagree with that. It wasn't his ex-Barcelona status that won him some patience from the fans. It was the fact that they could see we had a technically gifted player on our books and one of the few individuals who could conjure something out of nothing. One possible reason why Rochina was a "ball-hog" could be due to a lack of faith in his team-mates. On more than one occasion, I've seen Rochina try to get a move started only for one of his (less-talented) team-mates to screw it up because they weren't on the same wavelength. Does that excuse him for not being a team player? Not really. Lack of maturity? Most definitely.

I can't really believe that the likes of Ronaldo and Giggs have been used as examples of players who were wet behind the ears but went on to hit stardom. For every Ronaldo or Giggs there are hundreds if not thousands of other kids who were niaive and still didnt make it. Those two are special special talents. If Rochina goes on to hit those heights then i will gracefully admit i was wrong. But if he is to emulate that then the next 2-3 years need to be monumental in terms of his learning curve. At times Rochina was a pleasure to watch. Lovely neat touch and he struck a football as well as anyone. But in this league against sides who hassle and press you for 90 mins, he was ineffective.

The Ronaldo argument was more of a general rebuttal to den's philosophy that good players don't need good managers. Now, had a series of experienced managers (who have all coached "luxury players" like Rochina) thought he was dead-weight, then fair enough. But in his time here he's been managed by Steve Kean, Eric Black, Henning Berg, Gary Bowyer & Michael Appleton. Hardly a managerial A-list, is it? It's barely even a C-list.

[Robert Tressell]

nobody has needlessly given the ball away more this season than Lowe & Murphy at least Rochina scored and created a few to try and re-address the balance.

True, its funny that Murphy isn;t held to the same standards, may be it's becasue he is a model pro. I was trying to feel good about Appleton as manager but sending out Rochina really killed it for me. I think at best he is a safe pair of hands but he doesn;t seem to inpisire much of anything. May be I don;t remember properly, I think Jansen scored a cracker on his debut but he was still a bit of a rough diamond and was in an out of the team until Sounness came along into turned him into a top centre forward, I think Rochina has it in him to do the same but we haven;t had the manage with the nous to do anything with him. Berg seemed to come the closes with the idea but we all know he didn;t last long. If anything I wish Berg was given more time, at the same time having the board nonsense sorted out and his own backroom team.

[T.J.Newton]

True, its funny that Murphy isn;t held to the same standards, may be it's becasue he is a model pro. I was trying to feel good about Appleton as manager but sending out Rochina really killed it for me. I think at best he is a safe pair of hands but he doesn;t seem to inpisire much of anything. May be I don;t remember properly, I think Jansen scored a cracker on his debut but he was still a bit of a rough diamond and was in an out of the team until Sounness came along into turned him into a top centre forward, I think Rochina has it in him to do the same but we haven;t had the manage with the nous to do anything with him. Berg seemed to come the closes with the idea but we all know he didn;t last long. If anything I wish Berg was given more time, at the same time having the board nonsense sorted out and his own backroom team.

the Jansen/rochina comparison is spot on, jansen was played all over the place and just seen as a bit of a light weight flair player before Souness moulded him into a strong centre forward(target man ish!), though as I said elsewhere, I think Rochina, formica and simon have been pushed out far more than JUST footballing reasons.

[patrickvalery]

Disagree with that. It wasn't his ex-Barcelona status that won him some patience from the fans. It was the fact that they could see we had a technically gifted player on our books and one of the few individuals who could conjure something out of nothing. One possible reason why Rochina was a "ball-hog" could be due to a lack of faith in his team-mates. On more than one occasion, I've seen Rochina try to get a move started only for one of his (less-talented) team-mates to screw it up because they weren't on the same wavelength. Does that excuse him for not being a team player? Not really. Lack of maturity? Most definitely.The Ronaldo argument was more of a general rebuttal to den's philosophy that good players don't need good managers. Now, had a series of experienced managers (who have all coached "luxury players" like Rochina) thought he was dead-weight, then fair enough. But in his time here he's been managed by Steve Kean, Eric Black, Henning Berg, Gary Bowyer & Michael Appleton. Hardly a managerial A-list, is it? It's barely even a C-list.

Interestingly you missed a manager off your list. And if Shebby Singh can't get a tune out of him then nobody will!!

[darrenrover]

I for one was sorry to see Rochina leave. I believe in different motivational suroundings, with better quality players and played in 'the hole' he could be a great player.

Rooney and Gazza are hardly high on general intellect but they can/could play.

As for Appleton, I guess time will tell. Lacks any charisma, honest and has generally sorted the defence out (Leicester excepted). That said, there's probably 10,000 that could have done that given the opportunity but free and gratis.

I'd guess end of September would be about the time to make a fair, informed judgement.

[den]

Disagree with that. It wasn't his ex-Barcelona status that won him some patience from the fans. It was the fact that they could see we had a technically gifted player on our books and one of the few individuals who could conjure something out of nothing. One possible reason why Rochina was a "ball-hog" could be due to a lack of faith in his team-mates. On more than one occasion, I've seen Rochina try to get a move started only for one of his (less-talented) team-mates to screw it up because they weren't on the same wavelength. Does that excuse him for not being a team player? Not really. Lack of maturity? Most definitely.The Ronaldo argument was more of a general rebuttal to den's philosophy that good players don't need good managers. Now, had a series of experienced managers (who have all coached "luxury players" like Rochina) thought he was dead-weight, then fair enough. But in his time here he's been managed by Steve Kean, Eric Black, Henning Berg, Gary Bowyer & Michael Appleton. Hardly a managerial A-list, is it? It's barely even a C-list.

You missed out Guardiola.

Disagree with that. It wasn't his ex-Barcelona status that won him some patience from the fans. It was the fact that they could see we had a technically gifted player on our books and one of the few individuals who could conjure something out of nothing. One possible reason why Rochina was a "ball-hog" could be due to a lack of faith in his team-mates. On more than one occasion, I've seen Rochina try to get a move started only for one of his (less-talented) team-mates to screw it up because they weren't on the same wavelength. Does that excuse him for not being a team player? Not really. Lack of maturity? Most definitely.The Ronaldo argument was more of a general rebuttal to den's philosophy that good players don't need good managers. Now, had a series of experienced managers (who have all coached "luxury players" like Rochina) thought he was dead-weight, then fair enough. But in his time here he's been managed by Steve Kean, Eric Black, Henning Berg, Gary Bowyer & Michael Appleton. Hardly a managerial A-list, is it? It's barely even a C-list.

All players need a good manager. Don't know what you're on about TBH.

[Baz]

nobody has needlessly given the ball away more this season than Lowe & Murphy at least Rochina scored and created a few to try and re-address the balance.

How many had Rochina scored and created?

[Amo]

You missed out Guardiola.

If he's not good enough for Barca, he's definitely not good enough for us.

All players need a good manager. Don't know what you're on about TBH.

You have implied as much on several occasions. How can a player realize his potential without the right circumstances, den?

How many had Rochina scored and created?

Rochina: 5 goals, 3 assists.

Murphy: 2 goals, 3 assists.

Lowe: 0 goals, 2 assists.

[Roverthechimp]

On the Rochina debate i would have preferred that we kept him but it's a bit like Taraabt (spelling) at QPR, he does awesome things and can win a game on his own, pick out a fantastic pass or score a great goal but 99 times out of a hundred he will just lose the ball or shoot wildly. Incredibly frustrating and you can see his teammates eventually stop making runs because they know it probably won't come to them anyway...

Finally saw the extended highlights from Leicester. I know they are biased highlights but i thought the players looked like they were trying just not succeeding. Interesting comments from Appleton today and hopefully we'll see a response over the coming games but he does need a plan B in midfield.

[DE.]

True, its funny that Murphy isn;t held to the same standards, may be it's becasue he is a model pro.

I don't think that's true TBF. Murphy is one of the most heavily criticised on here and at Ewood. He was being booed earlier in the season for misplacing passes repeatedly!