[Archived] administration

[RoverScot]

The Bank of India overdraft facility runs to March 2013 so the renewal or withdrawal of this facility will be indicative of future plans.

It actually says in the accounts that 'the facility is due for renewal/repayment in March 2013' so a need for repayment from the club itself or withdrawal of this facility would definitely put the club in administration.

Another aspect to consider is the 3% interest repayment on the principal - if the overdraft facility runs up to £25 million there will be an additional £750,000 to pay a year. This is less than David Goodwillie's annual salary but its an important aspect to consider for Financial Fair Play - especially if the club is having to spend any of its non-parachute payment income on servicing a debt it cannot be rid of.

[philipl]

That March date is key.

I don't for one moment expect the debts will not be rolled over but we could be in administration in a few weeks time technically.

[Athlete]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21047858

[Ewoodbhappy]

They may have to. The debts are too high judging from the work Philip and others have done. Venky's will now have one eye on getting the 25 million or so they gave the Trust back out to Pune. I would guess that they have loaded a lot of the debt back on the club's balance sheet. The next accounts will show that. Rumours are that cost mismanagement may cause the club to lose another 25 million this year. If that is true, it would make it pretty well impossible, short of a miraculous promotion campaign, to pay off the debt and then get the 25 million they feel they are owed, back out.

They could firesale this summer, or, a more cynical approach would be to move the club into administration after the Burnley game in March. Rules state that any club entering administration after the fourth Thursday in March would have their 10 point deduction suspended until the following season. So if Venky's feel Rovers can get to 60 points - 24 from 18 more games - they could take the rap in March, rid the club of debt, and assume a restructured club with no debt and one more full parachute season ahead of them. There are 2 more reduced, but still substantial, payment seasons after that which will allow them to salt the money away to add to the booty they already have taken..

In short, for Venky's to save themselves and get both 25 million of debt sorted, and 25 million of purchase price restored, it is either promotion this season (unlikely), next (who knows?), or administration and a fire sale to allow three seasons of 'profit' that will then fund a grotesque Indian takeaway. I fear the latter is more likely. In this appalling scenario Appleton's first 10 games ending with Burnley at home will determine the very future of the club.

Very interesting & plausible theory.

It is going to be a critical few months in Rovers history.

[philipl]

Administration benefits are difficult to achieve when the bank debt is securef in a different country from the business.

Another reason for thinking administration is not on the Venky's agenda.

That is if they have an agenda....

[iamarover]

Administration benefits are difficult to achieve when the bank debt is securef in a different country from the business.

Another reason for thinking administration is not on the Venky's agenda.

That is if they have an agenda....

Ah. Very good point. But the Ides of March coincidence is worrying don't you think? I believe it is coming down to 'how much are they really worth'. Some quote 2bn but I have spent hours on this and I cannot see it. If they are, they will ride the storm. If not they will have to fold. Rovers Poker Hold 'Em. I suspect we are All In on the Appleton Ten Game play, ending with. Burnley. Gentlemen and ladies. Charge your glasses. In Hong Kong we are preparing for the Year of the Snake. Let us hope, for once, it is.

[Roverthechimp]

Administration benefits are difficult to achieve when the bank debt is securef in a different country from the business.

Another reason for thinking administration is not on the Venky's agenda.

That is if they have an agenda....

If we did go into administration would we still be entitled to the so called parachute payments?

[imy9]

Is it really a laughing matter?

You think there's no problem at Rovers then? Pay-offs to sacked staff, no sponsor, corporate income down, no sponsor that we can get for more than 3 games, parachute money to go down after next season, seemingly can't afford to replace backroom staff that we've binned off ... is there anything I've missed? Oh yeah, hardly any incoming transfers this month according to Shebby Singh, and only a 6 month contract on offer. Ooops, no we gave "Appy" 2.5 years, no? Hmmmm ... strange one, that.

Your post comes over as very smug, I know you have it in for Phil, but don't you think the writing is on the wall to an extent?

As someone posted recently, Venky's operate in a low-margin business, I don't believe they have the werewithall or the will to "plug the gap".

To an extent, they are a black box, they have a miasma of private subsidiary businesses, they do the club's banking in India, they say nothing in the press, they never visit. Seemingly, they just don't care. But I think the writing is on the wall and we would be foolish to think that there isn't a developing problem here.

Better to focus on that than silly little spats.

Smug? I would say the people constantly saying we are about to go under, state there is mounting evidence to suggest administration and point deductions...and then say cant reveal our sources are the smug ones. Especially when NOTHING happens! This is a common occurrence on this board and my annoyance with Phillip is due to the ludicrous statements he makes on a regular basis which are designed to a get a reaction like yours.

Each to their own I guess. I know I am going to die but am not going to spend time worrying about it before it happens.

[broadsword]

Philip got a reaction out of me, did he? But I was replying to your post. Doesn't make any sense that at all.

You seem to have a big problem with him, and you do seem to like sniping away at him, maybe it gives you some satisfaction. perhaps you'd prefer it if they was no hearsay at all on this board?

What do you think about the chances of administration? You seem to think there's a chance given your last paragraph. Come on, let's have something from you that isn't centred on jeering at Philip.

[imy9]

Philip got a reaction out of me, did he? But I was replying to your post. Doesn't make any sense that at all.

You seem to have a big problem with him, and you do seem to like sniping away at him, maybe it gives you some satisfaction. perhaps you'd prefer it if they was no hearsay at all on this board?

What do you think about the chances of administration? You seem to think there's a chance given your last paragraph. Come on, let's have something from you that isn't centred on jeering at Philip.

I make a light hearted comment towards Phillip and you pounce, who did he get a reaction out of? He makes lots of comments about the end of the world and you seem to believe it- so got a reaction out of you? Interesting that someone made the original comment and you said nothing but commented on me lol. I tend not to post often on the board but when I do it tends not to be about Phillip- (feel free you to use the search facility). I am sure Phillip can deal with comments made himself and does not need a minder but hey whatever floats your boat.

On the topic of administration, there is an equal chance with virtually every club in the land of this happening. If they were asset strippers they would not be buying £8 million pound players or spending big on wages or sacking managers and continually hiring?

[DE.]

Pretty sure every club in the land aren't losing circa £2m a month, Imy. Or have the worst owners in English football (officially).

[imy9]

Pretty sure every club in the land aren't losing circa £2m a month, Imy. Or have the worst owners in English football (officially).

Bolton are what £100 million plus in debt? Most relegated clubs suffer massive losses, what would people be saying if Venky's spent nothing this summer and sold the remaining top players we have- we are going into administration?

[broadsword]

I make a light hearted comment towards Phillip and you pounce, who did he get a reaction out of? He makes lots of comments about the end of the world and you seem to believe it- so got a reaction out of you? Interesting that someone made the original comment and you said nothing but commented on me lol. I tend not to post often on the board but when I do it tends not to be about Phillip- (feel free you to use the search facility). I am sure Phillip can deal with comments made himself and does not need a minder but hey whatever floats your boat.

I'm not bothered enough to use the search facility, but my impression has been that you always have it in for him. Your glib remarks aimed at him seemed to reveal a flippancy about the prospect of administration, and it seemed that you were more intent on getting in a dig at him than considering the club's financial future.

As for the rest of your remarks, I think they say more about you than they do about me. Infra dig.

[imy9]

I'm not bothered enough to use the search facility, but my impression has been that you always have it in for him. Your glib remarks aimed at him seemed to reveal a flippancy about the prospect of administration, and it seemed that you were more intent on getting in a dig at him than considering the club's financial future.

As for the rest of your remarks, I think they say more about you than they do about me. Infra dig.

So to clarify, you want to hear something from me "that isn't centred on jeering at Philip", you are not bothered enough to check your facts but ARE bothered enough to make a comment against me...mmm.

When I make a comment about administration you don't debate it... (thats not an invitation to start by the way)

[broadsword]

God, it's just not worth it, is it?

Bye.

[DE.]

Bolton are what £100 million plus in debt? Most relegated clubs suffer massive losses, what would people be saying if Venky's spent nothing this summer and sold the remaining top players we have- we are going into administration?

So you don't think losing 2m a month is a massive problem considering our horrendous wage bill? I don't care about Bolton. They've got an owner for now who will underwrite their debts and has done for some time. We have no guarantee Venky's will do the same.

[broadsword]

Well exactly.

The club is a PR junket for them, how far would they go to underwrite losses at Rovers? It doesn't make sense to me to spend that sort of money when it isn't their core business. And indeed, they may prefer us to go to the wall and suffer some adverse publicity rather than attempt to prop us up using the profits from the wholesale of chickens. But who knows what their next move will be, they're not exactly whizz kids.

And I agree about Bolton, the presence of Eddie Davies pretty much renders that comparison pointless.

[imy9]

So you don't think losing 2m a month is a massive problem considering our horrendous wage bill? I don't care about Bolton. They've got an owner for now who will underwrite their debts and has done for some time. We have no guarantee Venky's will do the same.

2 million is a lot but point I'm making is that if Bolton's owner stopped funding them they are in a worse position than us. Why did I mention them? They have been relegated alongside us and will suffer a similar dip in income.

Our owners have funded us so far even after we were relegated and chosen not to sell us even after a number of interested parties made their intentions clear. Who knows what their thinking but it does seem like they are in it for the long term- not a good thing in my opinion but unless someone has a spare 40 million in their sofa what can be done?

[DE.]

There's a huge difference between Bolton's ownership situation and ours. It's just not a valid comparison, Imy.

And yes, you're right, there isn't much that can be done. I just take issue with your brushing it off and saying "every club in the land" is under the same threat as we are. It just isn't true. Sure, you can pick out a few clubs that are toeing a similar line to us... but the majority aren't anywhere near our level of financial indiscipline.

We have every right to fear for the future of the club. More so than 99% of other football supporters, because unlike teams like Bolton, we have owners who seem hellbent on destroying this club with every decision they make.

[Athlete]

2 million is a lot but point I'm making is that if Bolton's owner stopped funding them they are in a worse position than us. Why did I mention them? They have been relegated alongside us and will suffer a similar dip in income.

Our owners have funded us so far even after we were relegated and chosen not to sell us even after a number of interested parties made their intentions clear. Who knows what their thinking but it does seem like they are in it for the long term- not a good thing in my opinion but unless someone has a spare 40 million in their sofa what can be done?

our owners have funded us ?? what have you been drinking ....They've not put one penny in or Rupee of their own money

[imy9]

our owners have funded us ?? what have you been drinking ....They've not put one penny in or Rupee of their own money

Who has funded the massive drop in income?

There is a huge shortfall which the owners have underwritten. Will they continue to do this? No idea but someone will have to, any takers?

[philipl]

We were in reasonable health until they shoved us under the bus.

All they have done is run out with the sticking plaster and paid for some devotions at the temple back in Pune.

I have consistently been saying Rovers were very unlikely to be allowed to go into administration and you are still bleating that I am talking about doom.

[Guest Norbert]

Who has funded the massive drop in income?

There is a huge shortfall which the owners have underwritten. Will they continue to do this? No idea but someone will have to, any takers?

Chris Samba and Phil Jones must have helped, along with all the other players sold/released

[imy9]

We were in reasonable health until they shoved us under the bus.

All they have done is run out with the sticking plaster and paid for some devotions at the temple back in Pune.

I have consistently been saying Rovers were very unlikely to be allowed to go into administration and you are still bleating that I am talking about doom.

We won't go into administration because Venkys will not allow it...

They do not want administrators looking carefully at our accounts...

If that's not scaremongering- again, and predicting doom then what is? Nonsense, of course (the implication that there is potentially anything dodgy happening)

That sticky plaster you mentioned...who has funded the 40 odd million loss in income this season? The 8 million payment for Rhodes, the 2 million plus wages of Murphy, Rhodes and Etuhu?

[bob fleming]

We won't go into administration because Venkys will not allow it...

They do not want administrators looking carefully at our accounts...

If that's not scaremongering- again, and predicting doom then what is? Nonsense, of course (the implication that there is potentially anything dodgy happening)

That sticky plaster you mentioned...who has funded the 40 odd million loss in income this season? The 8 million payment for Rhodes, the 2 million plus wages of Murphy, Rhodes and Etuhu?

Hey Imy, have you considered that it's just debt they're mounting up? How's about the 2m a month were losing? All for the love of the club? She doesn't even like football!

Meanwhile we're still waiting for that statement from the owners that Shebby promised us...