[Archived] Rovers V Charlton

[DE.]

Appleton needs to kick ass big time and sort these, IMO, feckin useless big time Charlies out - and I think he will.

You keep saying this, but how?

If the players have no interest in playing for him because they consider him a nobody what, exactly, is he going to do to change their perception? How is he going to "kick ass big time" on players who are only a few years younger than him, on huge wages/big contracts and have no respect for him as a manager?

The more likely outcome is we continue to stutter, and Appleton either becomes the new Kean or the new Berg.

[gumboots]

Robbie Savage wasn't really good enough (yes i know he was still a heck of a lot better than many) but by sheer effort he got a lot further than he probably should have. Being limited in ability is not a problem. Being limited in effort is.

[Al]

Yet again, who out of our central midfielders aren't pants? The fact of the matter is we need to buy people if we're to fix our midfield because none of them are up for it and out of all of them even a pants Murphy is best.

No he is the worst.

[John]

It's feckin simple.

Players are employed by the club and paid ludicrous wages.

Even if Mickey Mouse was manager they should run their b o l l o c k s off - nothing less than 100% is acceptable.

Appleton needs to kick ass big time and sort these, IMO, feckin useless big time Charlies out - and I think he will.

Just because he looks like a nutter does not mean he has the necessary man management skills and ability to get the best out of the squad - his track record to date suggests he has a fundamenteal issue in winning football matches.

There is more to being a good manager rather than just shouting and even threatening players.

[den]

Robbie Savage wasn't really good enough (yes i know he was still a heck of a lot better than many) but by sheer effort he got a lot further than he probably should have. Being limited in ability is not a problem. Being limited in effort is.

I knew my post would be misinterpreted.

Ah well, better to have tried and failed, than not tried at all. [see what I did there Gumboots?]

[JAL]

The players weren't trying, that was one of the main problems, Kazim is a disgrace to the club.

If you were the manger and you could see one of your players not trying or doing enough, what would you do?

Offer him encouragement, give him a bollocking, or sub him. From what I saw yesterday Appleton just stood back and did nothing, first game the signs arent good from the new manager.

So another notion is to change all the players so that we can disguise a poor manager, now how many times have we done that recently and were did it get the club.

Three players we need and maybe a fit Leon Best is one of them, but a commanding centre half that wins his headers nine times out of ten and a ball winning dominant driving central midfielder are definitely on Blackburn Rovers most wanted list come this january.

[gumboots]

In what way misinterpreted? Weren't you saying that they are still not going to be good enough even if they're fit? They may not be but of 2 poor players the one who'll achieve most is the one who gets fit and works hard. Isn't that what's happened in most of our games so far? We're poor, poorly managed, poorly set up, poor subs made but other teams haven't been that good either and fitness would help to overcome some of the other deficiencies. Not all and we'd probably still lose more than we win but those where we've had the lead and couldn't hold on might have been won withbetter levels of fitness

[JAL]

If you were the manger and you could see one of your players not trying or doing enough, what would you do?

Offer him encouragement, give him a bollocking, or sub him. From what I saw yesterday Appleton just stood back and did nothing from that first game the signs arent encouraging from the new manager.

So another notion is to change all the players so that we can disguise a poor manager, now how many times have we done that recently and were did it get the club.

Three players we need and maybe a fit Leon Best is one of them, but a commanding centre half that wins his headers nine times out of ten and a ball winning dominant driving central midfielder are definitely on Blackburn Rovers most wanted list come this january.

[jim mk2]

If the buck stops with the manager, how come so many of us knew we would be in this position so soon after the Raos bought us?

....because they sacked a very good manager and have appointed a series of incompetent ones.

"they're not fit" has been the criticism by fans of just about every poor squad we've had. But when you're not good enough and you're being outplayed, it makes you look slow and unfit. Problem is here, nowadays, they're the slowest bunch of pro's I've seen and when you're being outrun and second to the loose ball, it makes you look unfit.

Not saying for a moment they are fit enough, but it's likely that whatever they achieve fitness/stamina wise, they're always going to be second best in any tussle.

Not true. Get them fit and give them a rocket up their derriere from a manager with a bit of a fear factor and they'd all run alot faster and play alot better.

[Kelbo]

....because they sacked a very good manager and have appointed a series of incompetent ones.

Not true. Get them fit and give them a rocket up their derriere from a manager with a bit of a fear factor and they'd all run alot faster and play alot better.

Its a fact, if you are physically fit your are so much sharper mentally, a fit team would play 100% better both collectively and individually!!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Offer him encouragement, give him a bollocking, or sub him. From what I saw yesterday Appleton just stood back and did nothing, first game the signs arent good from the new manager.

It is interesting - I watched Appleton with interest - as many of my Blackpool supporting friends said he was unemotional on the touch line. He is - but he was giving signals to the players - and directing play - maybe not waving his hands about - but how much of this do players actually take in ?

[John]

If the buck stops with the manager, how come so many of us knew we would be in this position so soon after the Raos bought us?

When is the last time we had a good manager (and their staff) in charge of the team Den?

[DE.]

November 2010 wasn't it?

[den]

When is the last time we had a good manager (and their staff) in charge of the team Den?

Doesn't matter who's the manager John. With this lot in charge we were screwed from the outset.

In what way misinterpreted? Weren't you saying that they are still not going to be good enough even if they're fit?

No Gumboots.

Not true. Get them fit and give them a rocket up their derriere from a manager with a bit of a fear factor and they'd all run alot faster and play alot better.

I haven't said they are fit Jim.

[bazza]

Robbie Savage wasn't really good enough (yes i know he was still a heck of a lot better than many) but by sheer effort he got a lot further than he probably should have. Being limited in ability is not a problem. Being limited in effort is.

Spot on. The players are not as fit as they should be.

Rather than show them videos of Barcelona better to show them videos of Man Utd.

There is no reason whatsoever for our players not to cover the same amount of pitch as their players do.

Re the game, Rovers had no shape. We had square pegs in round holes. We don't seem to have any natural wingers who will stay out on their touchline.

If I were manager I'd drop CKR for the Brighton game. And I presume that King, Dunn, Best, Henley and Nunes are injured.

We are stuck with the two CBs. I'd put Martin O on left wing in front of Givet.

Kean

Kane Dann Hanley Givet

Murphy Vukcevic

Pedersen Mn Olsson

Rhodes Gomes

Or, to partner Rhodes either Rochina or Goodwillie. Might consider playing Lowe at right back in place of the inexperienced Kane.

We have such an unbalanced squad that I don't envy Appleton's job. He certainly has his work cut out.

[gumboots]

Doesn't matter who's the manager John. With this lot in charge we were screwed from the outset.

No Gumboots.

So if that wasn't your point what was? Genuinely curious to know what you meant to say and not good at deciphering cryptic remarks on a Sunday evening

I haven't said they are fit Jim.

[LeChuck]

Spot on. The players are not as fit as they should be.

Rather than show them videos of Barcelona better to show them videos of Man Utd.

There is no reason whatsoever for our players not to cover the same amount of pitch as their players do.

Re the game, Rovers had no shape. We had square pegs in round holes. We don't seem to have any natural wingers who will stay out on their touchline.

If I were manager I'd drop CKR for the Brighton game. And I presume that King, Dunn, Best, Henley and Nunes are injured.

We are stuck with the two CBs. I'd put Martin O on left wing in front of Givet.

Kean

Kane Dann Hanley Givet

Murphy Vukcevic

Pedersen Mn Olsson

Rhodes Gomes

Or, to partner Rhodes either Rochina or Goodwillie. Might consider playing Lowe at right back in place of the inexperienced Kane.

We have such an unbalanced squad that I don't envy Appleton's job. He certainly has his work cut out.

I can't imagine a central midfield less suited to Championship football!

Until we get someone who can do a Savage type job in there effectivly, I think we have to play with three in there. Maybe we can chance two against the weakest teams (the likes of Peterborough and Barnsley), but I don't think we've got the squad for a 4-4-2.

................ Kean

Henley Dann Hanley Olsson

................ Lowe

....... Murphy . Pedersen

Goodwillie ................ King

.............. Rhodes

I'd give that a shot. King and Goodwillie to roam but defend their respective sides of the pitch. Lowe just to run in a horizontal line screening the back four, and Murphy and Peds trying to supply the front three. Can't be worse than anything else we're trying.

[USABlue]

I'd like to know peoples thoughts on Murphys role in Charltons first goal. I watched in horror more than once as I saw Muphy just watch the play develop he just stood and watched made no attempt whatsoever to close down the player in possession, did not even move toward him to give him less to aim at. To me it was as big of a "I don't give a toss" action as I have seen in a while. What I'd give for a Jermaine Jones or Flitcroft type player right now.

[Brfcrule1]

Signing Murphy on the wages he is reputedly on (minus the %age skimmed of for dastardly and Muttley of course) was the worst bit of business done in the entire Championship this season.

Given a ticket yesterday so I went... didn't get on till 3.30 mind. But talk about new manager bounce, I'v e seen more bounce in a dead cat!!! '

That's interesting theno the 2nd time a cat has been mentioned regarding rovers because I have always maintained my cat could probably do a better job in the centre of our defence than Scott Dann even against Forest in the 6th minute from the left the ball was crossed Dann turns his back to the ball & hanley covers his a**never have I seen a central defender so useless in the air rubbish on the floor can't pass it to even his own player if you look back Dann is at fault for at least 95% of the goals conceded we would even have beaten the scum if it wasn't for him even wolves recently should have dealt with that cross positionally he is very suspect and until he is removed and replaced with Givet I feel we will struggle. I think we have to give Appleton a fair crack of the whip I only hope he sees the weaknesses and tries to rectify before tuesday and hopefully before the end of the month he can bring in a few players I think if we can bring Bentley on loan would help.

[rovermagic]

It's feckin simple.

Players are employed by the club and paid ludicrous wages.

Even if Mickey Mouse was manager they should run their b o l l o c k s off - nothing less than 100% is acceptable.

Appleton needs to kick ass big time and sort these, IMO, feckin useless big time Charlies out - and I think he will.

[rovermagic]

This is true. Good Championship sides mostly have hungry, young British (and I am the least nationalist person there is) players who close down, press up the pitch, move off the ball and pass to each other. This not true with relegated sides - Bolton, Wolves too, who have overpaid uninterested players. We need to ship 7-8 of them out ASAP. Starting with Murphy, Etuhu, Martin Olsson, Robinson, even Givet, prob Dann. Poss CKR. Then we need to bring in some more young players to play alongside Rhodes, Lowe, Henley, etc.

[Howler]

So some people are defending the players and laying into Appleton after 1 game. The attitude of most players at this club stinks and if Appleton can sort that out we'll be a lot more competitive in this league.

We've played 20 odd games this season under five managers and really only outplayed Peterborough. Thats the players fault. No-one out there is taking responsibility and putting in maximum effort to do their best for the team. I exclude Rhodes and a couple of the younger players from this. Rhodes finish was world class and if he can work on his hold up play he has a very good career ahead of him.

[thenodrog]

When some of the minor injuries go I'd like to see us try Rhodes and CKR up top with King and Nunes on the wings and Lowe and Simon in the middle

It can't be any less effective anyway

We''ll get beat 7-5 every game.

[thenodrog]

Unless we get a midfielder who can put in a tackle and chase people we will finish in the bottom half. We will not get promoted this season, the best we can hope for is a top half finish. We are crying out for Jermaine Jones. I am convinced that if we got someone similar, many of ours on field problems will be solved.

We had one. He's now playing for Stoke! The legacy of Kean was that he got rid of all the players with talent AND character. Ok so the best players like Samba and Jones would have gone by now but just imagine how colossal the likes of Nelsen and N'Zonzi would be in this division.

It's feckin simple.

Players are employed by the club and paid ludicrous wages.

Even if Mickey Mouse was manager they should run their b o l l o c k s off - nothing less than 100% is acceptable.

You must know it doesn't work like that. Every relegation I've seen since 65 drew similar comments.

There is more to being a good manager rather than just shouting and even threatening players.

Hence the constant managerial failures of Roy Kean. Alan Ball Jun was the same.... constantly bawled at players and then wondered why he couldn't get the best out of them. Knowing when to use a velvet glove and an iron fist at the right time is an art.

[den]

No Gumboots.

So if that wasn't your point what was? Genuinely curious to know what you meant to say and not good at deciphering cryptic remarks on a Sunday evening

I thought it was clear Gumboots.

Anyway, I was trying to say that when teams are struggling for any length of time, you always get the "they're not fit" comments. Strangely, you don't hear them when the teams winning. I suspect the players aren't as fit as they could be, but this is my point - I really don't know. The fitness coaches and sports scientists should know the answer to that by their monitoring of heart rates, recovery times, performances during fitness programmes etc.

Put it another way. If it's so obvious that the players aren't fit enough, it should be dead easy to say which ones aren't fit - agreed? I mean, Lowe, Kane, King, Dann, Givet, Formica, the two Olssen's seem to get through a game easily enough, so it isn't in my view all the players who can be charged with this "not being fit enough" criticism. So name the players who aren't fit enough - and don't get confused with lack of application/laziness etc.

It is an interesting topic.