[Archived] Cameron's thoughts on Europe

[SydneyRover]

The bit that worries me is Europeans earning our money and sending/spending it back home. That loses our economy money doesn't it?

I generally feel that you should spend your hard-earned (for yhe most part) in the country you earn it. Obviously holidays and retirement wouldn't be included there.

I don't feel there's any obligation for them to spend the money in the UK. As Jim said, it doesn't make a huge difference to the economy anyway and their money is taxed already so anything else is theirs to spend how they wish.

[Mike E]

Again, clearly I don't know all that much tbh. It's a wonder people of my ilk are allowed to vote with so little knowledge of the consequences :/

[thenodrog]

Again, clearly I don't know all that much tbh. It's a wonder people of my ilk are allowed to vote with so little knowledge of the consequences :/

And there's the rub. In truth none of us are. Well put mike. The failings of our democratic form of govt are so obvious and so very damaging. All that is on offer very few years is a two fold choice of short term, irresponsible government.

[Al]

What you mean is why should we allow Europeans to work in the UK when there are Brits unable to get a job and employers only too willing to exploit migrant workers?

Edit. Altered to what I do mean

[Paul]

Al I'm afraid you are going to have to accept it is very hard to find UK nationals who want or are prepared to work on short-term contracts in agriculture and horticulture. It's simply a fact and is no way exploitation of foreign workers. I'm talking about an industry, and was from the beginning, which produces our food. Bedding plants are an irrelevance.

I completely agree there are people who will and do exploit workers. This is though a minority and recent legislation has done much to improve the situation.

Food production by it's nature is very seasonal and the short-term nature of the employment is unavoidable

[thenodrog]

Al I'm afraid you are going to have to accept it is very hard to find UK nationals who want or are prepared to work on short-term contracts in agriculture and horticulture. It's simply a fact and is no way exploitation of foreign workers. I'm talking about an industry, and was from the beginning, which produces our food. Bedding plants are an irrelevance.

I completely agree there are people who will and do exploit workers. This is though a minority and recent legislation has done much to improve the situation.

Food production by it's nature is very seasonal and the short-term nature of the employment is unavoidable

As I said there must be something seriously flawed with benefits.

[jim mk2]

The "serious flaw" is the minimum wage, which is too low. In 2012, Britain's national minimum wage went up by 11p to £6.19 – but it's still only middling, at best, compared with most other developed countries, and younger workers will see no increase. People cannot survive on ludicrously low wages like that, which is why there has to be a debate about a minimum living wage.

[Paul]

80p = 1 Euro approximate

Retail price of pineapple 80p

Production cycle 12-13 months from planting

75% world pineapple production is from Costa Rica

60% of workforce is Nicaraguan migrant labour

96 cents of each euro spent on pineapple returns to plantation owner, market broker and retailer (41 cents)

Typically the worker receives 4 cents

Must pop to Tesco...........

[dave birch]

A little while back, I was in Northern Thailand.

Neat, tidy streets, wide highways, and NO unemployment.

Everyone HAS to work. Families look after their own, and everyone (that can) works.

It's amazing what a bit of incentive can do for people.

Even the refugees that came over from Burma have to fend for themselves. They get very little from the Thai government.

[thenodrog]

80p = 1 Euro approximate

Retail price of pineapple 80p

Production cycle 12-13 months from planting

75% world pineapple production is from Costa Rica

60% of workforce is Nicaraguan migrant labour

96 cents of each euro spent on pineapple returns to plantation owner, market broker and retailer (41 cents)

Typically the worker receives 4 cents

Must pop to Tesco...........

Neigh, neigh, neigh I wouldn't do that! tesco'll just take you for a ride......youd be better trotting off to a proper shop.

btw Typical that out of that lot the retailer snaffles the biggest cut. It's the same with just about everything they sell. Supermarkets have become an unecessary evil.

[Paul]

It's Tesco selling them for 80p!! Sainsbury is 2 for £2.50!

[Al]

Sorry but I don't see the relevance of the cost of a pineapple to the Eastern Europeans flooding the British employment market and driving down the wages for the Brits to a level where it's better to live on benefits.

[Paul]

Sorry but I don't see the relevance of the cost of a pineapple to the Eastern Europeans flooding the British employment market and driving down the wages for the Brits to a level where it's better to live on benefits.

You suggested the industry I work in exploits migrant labour and implied I do as well.

I've provided you with an outrageous example of exploitation which at least Tesco and Sainsbury are party to. The example also shows the UK is not unique in needing to use migrant labour, local populations unprepared to take on certain types of work are common. While traveling in Australia my son picked tomatoes - another example.

If you feel so strongly about the exploitation you accuse me of I would ask you to cease shopping at supermarkets and also consider the point I made to you about the BRC.

[ABBEY]

Spongebob lives in a pineapple under the sea.

[Tom]

Spongebob lives in a pineapple under the sea.

And that's the first post in the thread I've been on the same wavelength as!

[Al]

You suggested the industry I work in exploits migrant labour and implied I do as well.

I've provided you with an outrageous example of exploitation which at least Tesco and Sainsbury are party to. The example also shows the UK is not unique in needing to use migrant labour, local populations unprepared to take on certain types of work are common. While traveling in Australia my son picked tomatoes - another example.

If you feel so strongly about the exploitation you accuse me of I would ask you to cease shopping at supermarkets and also consider the point I made to you about the BRC.

I don't feel that strongly about you exploiting them particularly now I know that they are temps but I do feel strongly about being part of a community that allows them to come here to dilute the wages of the indiginous population. Australia would not allow it and they do OK. Did the authorities know that your son intended to work when they allowed him in? They are very strong on that sort of thing.

I pay market prices for my produce. If that price is too low then the market should be allowed to find it's own level at decent rates of pay and supermarkets should be prevented from exploiting the producers by law. If it increases the price of vegetables then so be it. If the wages increase we can afford it. Basic economics.

I am retired so it doesn't affect me personally but I do feel sorry for the guy who wants to work but a Pole has his job.

[thenodrog]

I pay market prices for my produce. If that price is too low then the market should be allowed to find it's own level at decent rates of pay and supermarkets should be prevented from exploiting the producers by law. If it increases the price of vegetables then so be it. If the wages increase we can afford it. Basic economics.

I am retired so it doesn't affect me personally but I do feel sorry for the guy who wants to work but a Pole has his job.

Hammering the producer is the supermarkets route to profit.... and a major reason imo why their Irish burger supplier was forced to purchase the cheapest mince they could find. Apparently it came via the Netherlands but originated in Poland. Serves em right. They should have bought it here if our food standards and abbatoir legislation didn't make it too costly for Messrs Tesco and their shareholders.

Does anybody agree that when abbatoirs in this country are burdened by ever more costly legislation then it should be illegal for the supermarkets to import meat from countries that either don't adhere to those regulations or at best pay minimal lip service to them? It's a scandalous system that the supermarkets have exploited for decades.

Root cause of it all is successive govts turning blind eyes to such practices because cheap food

a. Limits inflation.

and

b. Party funds benefit from Supermarket based bribes 'donations'.

[Al]

Hammering the producer is the supermarkets route to profit.... and a major reason imo why their Irish burger supplier was forced to purchase the cheapest mince they could find. Apparently it came via the Netherlands but originated in Poland. Serves em right. They should have bought it here if our food standards and abbatoir legislation didn't make it too costly for Messrs Tesco and their shareholders.

Does anybody agree that when abbatoirs in this country are burdened by ever more costly legislation then it should be illegal for the supermarkets to import meat from countries that either don't adhere to those regulations or at best pay minimal lip service to them? It's a scandalous system that the supermarkets have exploited for decades.

Root cause of it all is successive govts turning blind eyes to such practices because cheap food

a. Limits inflation.

and

b. Party funds benefit from Supermarket based bribes 'donations'.

I have difficulty saying this Gordon but 100% agree with you on that. Keeping and slaughtering animals in poor and (in Britain) illegal conditions is cheaper than conforming with the law. It is therefore unfair competition and should be stopped. Many people are also concerned about the way the animals they eat live and die. They should be confident that their meat is from animals kept in the best possible conditions.

For instance I would never knowingly eat meat that had been slaughtered in the Muslim way. Any that has should be clearly labelled as such.