[Archived] Match Fixing

[Amo]

You don't go in studs up, whether you're making a tackle or reaching for the ball. Do that and you always run the risk of catching a player and suffering the full extent of the law. Nani can't have any complaints.

[Tom]

You don't go in studs up, whether you're making a tackle or reaching for the ball. Do that and you always run the risk of catching a player and suffering the full extent of the law. Nani can't have any complaints.

Exactly that is the difference here, like it or not he studded the bloke in the ribs, its dangerous play

Harsh decision in a way but fair

[darrenrover]

You don't go in studs up, whether you're making a tackle or reaching for the ball. Do that and you always run the risk of catching a player and suffering the full extent of the law. Nani can't have any complaints.

I don't agree.

Go in to make a challenge studs showing, it's dangerous and ought to be punished.

Raise a foot to control the ball, volley, etc, no way. Should shuffling become the normal pattern of play? Just ridiculous.

Difference of opinions, ain't it great!

[Tom]

I think this is one of those discussions in which people won't ever agree which is fine

United can feel aggrieved but the ref didn't get it drastically wrong if wrong at all

[darrenrover]

I think this is one of those discussions in which people won't ever agree which is fine

United can feel aggrieved but the ref didn't get it drastically wrong if wrong at all

Apart from perhaps being swayed by his allegiances in his decision making.

[AggyBlue]

Intent or otherwise doesn't come into it.

Neither does common sense

[Tom]

Apart from perhaps being swayed by his allegiances in his decision making.

Eh?

[darrenrover]

Eh?

Forgive me if I'm wrong Tom but I thought that was why this topic was being discussed in this particular thread.

Was there not some reference earlier in the thread regarding the refs twitter account and that he followed Real Madrid and Spanish Tourist Board solely other than those in Turkey?

That aside, it was never a red card offence!!

[Amo]

I don't agree.

Go in to make a challenge studs showing, it's dangerous and ought to be punished.

Raise a foot to control the ball, volley, etc, no way. Should shuffling become the normal pattern of play? Just ridiculous.

He didn't just a "raise a foot" did he? He leaped forward for the ball, studs showing, with his full weight behind him. It might not have been a tackle as such but it was still an attempt for the ball with a competing player. You can't go in like that and expect to get away with it if you catch someone.

[Tom]

Sorry I totally forgot about the topic title

Yes I did read that tweet but I think they also said later it was a fake account

Quite why someone would have a long standing fake account for a referee I have no idea though

[Mike E]

Dunno about anyone else, but soon as Nani makes contact, it looks like does actually kick out at Arbeloa imo.

[DE.]

In slow motion a lot of things look far worse than they are. It's incredibly misleading.

[Stuart]

He didn't just a "raise a foot" did he? He leaped forward for the ball, studs showing, with his full weight behind him. It might not have been a tackle as such but it was still an attempt for the ball with a competing player. You can't go in like that and expect to get away with it if you catch someone.

You should work for the Stazi. That editing is right out of the black propaganda handbook.

[Blue n White Rover]

The more I look at it the more I am convinced that it was a red.

[Mike E]

In slow motion a lot of things look far worse than they are. It's incredibly misleading.

I have 20/20 vision and he kicks out when he realises Arbeloa is 'in challenge' with him. Deffo yellow. Red? Judgement call and Utd got unlucky.

[Stuart]

The more I look at it the more I am convinced that it was a red.

Looking at that gif, Derren Brown style for 10 minutes, even I would think it was a red.

It was never a red. Not in real football. The only people who weren't shocked were the ref, his assistant, Am'o and Tom. Oh, and Roy "I didn't sign anything" Keane.

Keane's Mr Controversy Act was hilarious, by the way. 'Whenever I got sent off in my career, as I was walking off, I asked myself "Did I give the referee a decision to make?"'.

Yeah, of course Roy - you were simply unlucky with those dozen or so red cards. No way did you intentionally go in to hurt someone. It was simple misfortune. That poor hapless ref had a decision to make and, unfortunately, he decided - by the letter of the law - you had to go. ("Sorry son, it's my job at stake if I don't. It's those assessors, you know, they're making our lives a misery") . I bet all those refs are still waking up at nights, in a cold sweat, worrying about all those close calls and how they might have done things differently. Ha.

[Blue n White Rover]

Firstly, his leg should never have been dangerously high. Secondly, he extends his leg when he makes contact with Arbeloa, which looks intentional. There is no part of that clip which shows us that it was an "accident" or unintentional. He fully deserved the red card and I am very happy that the game was not ruined by the ref bottling it at OT.

[jim mk2]

Nani is watching the ball the whole way, the ball was in the air to be controlled and won, and Arbeloa comes in from the side to challenge.

Anyone who sees it as a deliberate foul has never played the game.

I'm still annoyed that an excellent match between two of the world's best club teams that was finely balanced and could have gone either way was spoilt by another crass refereeing decision.

[Stuart]

Firstly, his leg should never have been dangerously high. Secondly, he extends his leg when he makes contact with Arbeloa, which looks intentional. There is no part of that clip which shows us that it was an "accident" or unintentional. He fully deserved the red card and I am very happy that the game was not ruined by the ref bottling it at OT.

If he hasn't sent off Nani, NOBODY would have been talking about that 'challenge'.

I think that's the top and bottom of the issue.

[Majiball]

Unfortunately you just won't get away with that in Europe, high foot and studs showing.

Whatever do I mean unfortunate anyway I bet on Madrid, so I'm glad it happened.

[tomphil]

From where the ref is he isn't looking at Nani's eyes he just sees him steaming in with his foot above waist height. it's a red !

[DE.]

I'll ask again, since the pro-red brigade have not given me a straight answer to this:

Do you agree that if Nani deserved a red, then in future any attempt to jump up and control the ball with a raised foot should be banned and punishable by a booking or sending off?

Dangerous play is dangerous play, regardless of whether you actually connect with the player. If somebody dives in two footed and avoids the player but gets the ball, they should and generally are still sent off. As this is dangerous play then jumping in the air to control the ball with one's foot assumedly falls into the same category? If not, why not?

[speeeeeeedie]

I'll ask again, since the pro-red brigade have not given me a straight answer to this:

Do you agree that if Nani deserved a red, then in future any attempt to jump up and control the ball with a raised foot should be banned and punishable by a booking or sending off?

Dangerous play is dangerous play, regardless of whether you actually connect with the player. If somebody dives in two footed and avoids the player but gets the ball, they should and generally are still sent off. As this is dangerous play then jumping in the air to control the ball with one's foot assumedly falls into the same category? If not, why not?

My first thought was that it was harsh as Nani was lookng at the ball, but after the reply I wavered. Nani clearly makes an attempt to catch Arbeloa before landing. Nani straightens his leg and pushes it toward Arbeloa. If all Nani did was extend his leg then drop once he didn't get the ball he would have been fine.

To answer your question; Any attempt to control the ball in the air by a player should not result in a ban. A player who tries that, misses, then tries to follow through and stud his oppoent in the chest should be.

[Jimmy612]

For me looking over and over and over - It's a booking.

I need to see it in real time again but to me, it doesn't look like an over-zealous challenge. You can tell when a player has intent to hurt as the tend to go in more powerfully than Nani did. Difficult to explain but there wasn't enough Umph in it for there to be much intent.

I can see why the referee has sent him off. Let's not forget, they have one look and one look only. However, if we are to send of a player for every raised boot that connects we will be in a right old mess won't we. Incidentally, I wonder how long before players get sent off for an over head kick? We've all seen those go wrong more often than they've gone right!

If I had been the ref, it is a matter of looking at the options - It's one footed, there is the very realistic chance that Nani had eyes only for the ball and unfortunately has not seen Arbeloa coming. If it is not an absolute stonewall red I would not send him off. Usually challenges that could be red and aren't given are usually brushed away with a 'Nani can count himself lucky there'.

Edit: I keep watching it... It's definitely only a yellow for me. It could easily be put down as a 'collision with both players going for and looking at the ball'. Unfortunate collision but I feel an accident all the same

Edit Eddit: I understand the point regarding the straightened leg, it does look incriminating.

[DE.]

My first thought was that it was harsh as Nani was lookng at the ball, but after the reply I wavered. Nani clearly makes an attempt to catch Arbeloa before landing. Nani straightens his leg and pushes it toward Arbeloa. If all Nani did was extend his leg then drop once he didn't get the ball he would have been fine.

To answer your question; Any attempt to control the ball in the air by a player should not result in a ban. A player who tries that, misses, then tries to follow through and stud his oppoent in the chest should be.

Problem is, the straightened leg is only really visible in slow motion. If you look at it in real time, Nani didn't even know the player was there when he initially jumped. He would have only been aware of him as he collided, giving him, oh I don't know... about 0.5 seconds to become angry and decide to kick out at the player? Highly unlikely, I'd think, considering Nani is not exactly the fastest thinker on the pitch in normal circumstances.