[Archived] Special Report: Racism in Football - Sky Sports News investigates

[longsiders1882]

But isn't the group linked for the Aboriginal people? Maybe I misread it

[SydneyRover]

If you can't accept that 'positive discrimination' is in itself discriminatory then we have a problem.

I don't support positive discrimination. If the Society of Black Lawyers suggests, for instance, that a certain percentage of law students intake should be black or that law firms have to hire a certain percentage, I would be most definitely against that.

However I'm not against, in principle, having a body which looks after the interests of a minority of people and helps ensure conventional discrimination doesn't happen.

It's really not that long since the Stephen Lawrence enquiry and I very much doubt institutionalised racism in major organisations has been eradicated in the intervening period.

[SydneyRover]

No doubt you are suffereing a significant guilt complex caused by living a life of milk and honey in a country that was stolen from the native aborigines but have you ever considered that you could quite easily be describing the BNP itself?

If you want to be absolved why don't you persuade everybody to pack their bags and leave? I'm sure you'll go to heaven if you did.

Just my opinion but people who can't cut it here and have @#/? off and emigrated cant help sticking their noses into our business. They are worse than ex-smokers.

Who was it that stole Australia from the Aborigines? Oh that's right, the British. The UK stole various lands from their native populations during the Empire era and plundered their resources so I don't get any bigger guilt complex from being here than I did in my lifetime spent in the UK before this.

The BNP does not represent an "under represented and historically oppressed minority", in fact quite the opposite, so I'm really not sure what you're getting at here.

I could "cut it" in the UK just fine. I've just chosen to have a couple of years in Sydney to experience a different way of life and to keep my options open should I want to come back here and settle. I'll be back in the UK soon enough, although not in Blackburn...

Heaven forbid if you'd escaped Blackburn more often and experienced different ways of life and different cultures first hand (I realise Australia itself isn't that different but there's plenty other places that are) you wouldn't have turned into the narrow minded bigot you've become.

Still, a bit too late now.

[AggyBlue]

Heaven forbid if you'd escaped Blackburn more often and experienced different ways of life and different cultures first hand (I realise Australia itself isn't that different but there's plenty other places that are) you wouldn't have turned into the narrow minded bigot you've become.

Still, a bit too late now.

We can experience all that here now, oh apart from English, that's frowned upon.

[DE.]

This thread might as well be moved to ICBINF.

[SydneyRover]

We can experience all that here now, oh apart from English, that's frowned upon.

Care to expand on that?

As far as I know Blackburn is vastly made up of English working class culture (not a derogatory reference, it's just a predominant demographic), and the cultural values of a small area of Pakistan from where the vast majority of the non white population of the town originates from.

Don't seem to recall English culture being frowned upon. Unless of course you pay attention to too much far right propaganda that is...

[longsiders1882]

Come on Sydney, you know how it goes. The government and others need a permanent enemy and they've found a willing, if inadvertently so, volunteer group.

So the media report 'stories' about Xmas trees being banned, Christmas celebrations being rebranded 'Winterval' without ever, on the rare occasions these stories are even true, pointing out it was actually liberal/leftie white middleclass do gooders who were worried about causing offence rather than any minority feeling any - in the main most people are quite happy to join in with any celebration regardless of religion or ethnicity

[SydneyRover]

Come on Sydney, you know how it goes. The government and others need a permanent enemy and they've found a willing, if inadvertently so, volunteer group.

So the media report 'stories' about Xmas trees being banned, Christmas celebrations being rebranded 'Winterval' without ever, on the rare occasions these stories are even true, pointing out it was actually liberal/leftie white middleclass do gooders who were worried about causing offence rather than any minority feeling any - in the main most people are quite happy to join in with any celebration regardless of religion or ethnicity

Well, yes, I know that's the sort of rubbish Aggy was getting at...

[Amo]

Come on Sydney, you know how it goes. The government and others need a permanent enemy and they've found a willing, if inadvertently so, volunteer group.

So the media report 'stories' about Xmas trees being banned, Christmas celebrations being rebranded 'Winterval' without ever, on the rare occasions these stories are even true, pointing out it was actually liberal/leftie white middleclass do gooders who were worried about causing offence rather than any minority feeling any - in the main most people are quite happy to join in with any celebration regardless of religion or ethnicity

Too true. Apparently "multiculturalism" is about breaking down barriers and bringing people of different cultures and ethnic backgrounds together. Unfortunately, the way it's manipulated by the establishment has quite the opposite effect.

[thenodrog]

The BNP does not represent an "under represented and historically oppressed minority", in fact quite the opposite, so I'm really not sure what you're getting at here.

Yes it does. To paraphrase Voltair.... I may not agree with what they say (or stand for) but I'll defend their right to say it. The BNP attract all manner of scroats and dickheads of that there is little doubt, but as long as our form of democracy allows one man one vote to place wherever they think fit then they ARE under represented AND are historically oppressed.

Too true. Apparently "multiculturalism" is about breaking down barriers and bringing people of different cultures and ethnic backgrounds together. Unfortunately, the way it's manipulated by the establishment has quite the opposite effect.

Am I wrong to suppose that most people the world over support multiculturalism..... just as long as it occurrs elsewhere.

[ABBEY]

We have to call manhole person holes or chambers, we cant have blackboards (now chalk boards), baa baa black sheep is frowned upon ,christmas is under review to be called winter festival but we have a socoety of black lawyers .

You couldnt make it up.

[Plastics]

Not sure "fun" is the right word. Maybe the first half dozen times. It does bring out the simpletons in droves though.

Not fun, but enlightening. It's good to see what makes people tick. I can now see that I have a differing view with thenodrog on homosexuals (or 'fags' as he has recently referred to them) as well as on this. Means I don't have to worry too much if he disagrees with me on other things.

[Mr. E]

Sweet Lord is nothing important to report rather than sensationalizing make-believe problems? The "problems" of the privileged.

[longsiders1882]

Refered to Mr E as 'first world pronlems' - there's a whole series of memes devoted to them but I'll be damned if I can find them on google.....

(do you like what did there? :-) )

[Andy]

Not fun, but enlightening. It's good to see what makes people tick. I can now see that I have a differing view with thenodrog on homosexuals (or 'fags' as he has recently referred to them) as well as on this. Means I don't have to worry too much if he disagrees with me on other things.

I think it's a generational thing.

Some older folk still genuinely believe that it's wrong to be homosexual and there's nothing at all wrong with discriminating against somebody based on their skin tone and/or religious beliefs.

Give it 20/30 years and the world will be a different place

[DE.]

For those spouting nonsense about Christmas being renamed, please read this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/08/winterval-modern-myth-christmas

[Plastics]

I think it's a generational thing.

Some older folk still genuinely believe that it's wrong to be homosexual and there's nothing at all wrong with discriminating against somebody based on their skin tone and/or religious beliefs.

Give it 20/30 years and the world will be a different place

I do hope you're right and think it's likely but unfortunately it's not guaranteed. You only have to look at Greece to see fascism on the rise. Governments, especially this one, are very clever in their propaganda and are quick to use divide and conquer tactics. Whether this is through making personal problems appear to be social problems (which is where fascism gets it claws in - convincing people problems with immigration are more important than other matters and it is other people who are keeping you from what you deserve*) or making social problems appear personal (the way they demonise the unemployed and 'scroungers' when in fact there are plenty of hard working individuals who cannot find work because their simply aren't the jobs).

All it takes is focus to shift away from other problems such as systemic corruption, greed and class inequalities** and the people are divided and certain untruths and forms of bigotry*** rise to the surface and pollute society and potentially a new generation.

*quick note - this is not to say there are not any problems with areas like immigration (there obviously has been over the years), just that they can be manipulated and overplayed.

**second quick note - this is not to try and demonise the upper classes, many of whom I am sure would like a fairer society

***final quick note - not everything that criticises is bigotry of course. Different cultures have their negative sides, as does ours (ours used loosely as there is of course no one culture, which I see as a good thing), and the right to criticise should not be removed, simply critiqued itself, thoroughly.

[Commondore]

Yes it does. To paraphrase Voltair.... I may not agree with what they say (or stand for) but I'll defend their right to say it. The BNP attract all manner of scroats and dickheads of that there is little doubt, but as long as our form of democracy allows one man one vote to place wherever they think fit then they ARE under represented AND are historically oppressed.

So you see no difference what so ever between the oppression of an ethinc group that has been systematically abducted into slavery and thereafter systematically discriminated against for 300 years and what you consider to be the oppression (you really have to explain that one closer too) of the BNP? Really?

Am I wrong to suppose that most people the world over support multiculturalism..... just as long as it occurrs elsewhere.

You certainly are. The whole idea of living "away from multiculturalism" is daft in itself, considering the world has been in a multicultural state at least since Egypt started bringing in slaves from differrent territories c.a 8000 BC...

[darrenrover]

I do hope you're right and think it's likely but unfortunately it's not guaranteed. You only have to look at Greece to see fascism on the rise. Governments, especially this one, are very clever in their propaganda and are quick to use divide and conquer tactics. Whether this is through making personal problems appear to be social problems (which is where fascism gets it claws in - convincing people problems with immigration are more important than other matters and it is other people who are keeping you from what you deserve*) or making social problems appear personal (the way they demonise the unemployed and 'scroungers' when in fact there are plenty of hard working individuals who cannot find work because their simply aren't the jobs).

All it takes is focus to shift away from other problems such as systemic corruption, greed and class inequalities** and the people are divided and certain untruths and forms of bigotry*** rise to the surface and pollute society and potentially a new generation.

*quick note - this is not to say there are not any problems with areas like immigration (there obviously has been over the years), just that they can be manipulated and overplayed.

**second quick note - this is not to try and demonise the upper classes, many of whom I am sure would like a fairer society

***final quick note - not everything that criticises is bigotry of course. Different cultures have their negative sides, as does ours (ours used loosely as there is of course no one culture, which I see as a good thing), and the right to criticise should not be removed, simply critiqued itself, thoroughly.

Anyway, I just wondered if it was still socially acceptable to call a Burnley fan a Dingle?

Where do you draw the line?

[Ianrally]

I would like to know if I can call a British pensioner living in Spain and getting heating allowance, a sponger? Is that racism against a minority.

I still think the Society of Black Lawyers, would have been better advised to have called themselves the Society of Non White Lawyers.

That would have been far more accommodating to many more minority groups.

One of my all time heroes is Nelson Mandela. I was a big supporter of the anti apartheid movement. Remember that this was about the oppression of a majority in their own country, by a minority who had virtually stolen it. In this case the British ( relatively liberal in their views) and the Dutch, who were bigoted in the extreme.

By the way, Nelson Mandela had no problem calling black people black, nor a board on the wall of a schoolroom a blackboard. Racism seems to be what the PC brigade make of it.

[Plastics]

There are some silly things that happen, such as blackboard not being used much any more, but let's be honest - does that really matter compared to providing equal opportunity to all our citizens? I just think some people have the wrong focus. When positive racism, sexism and any other ism takes place it should be called out, but to have things like linguistics at the forefront of the argument against working to strive against inequality seems to be the actions of people who haven't fully looked into the matter and are clutching at the more trivial side of the argument.

[Al]

Exactly..... the entire country should be taking the p1ss out of the precious feckers big time if it hadn't been so deeply ingrained in our collective psyche as a taboo subject.

Sorry... that should read collective -1.

Bloody Hell Gordon . Agreed again.

[longsiders1882]

I do hope you're right and think it's likely but unfortunately it's not guaranteed. You only have to look at Greece to see fascism on the rise. Governments, especially this one, are very clever in their propaganda and are quick to use divide and conquer tactics. Whether this is through making personal problems appear to be social problems (which is where fascism gets it claws in - convincing people problems with immigration are more important than other matters and it is other people who are keeping you from what you deserve*) or making social problems appear personal (the way they demonise the unemployed and 'scroungers' when in fact there are plenty of hard working individuals who cannot find work because their simply aren't the jobs).

All it takes is focus to shift away from other problems such as systemic corruption, greed and class inequalities** and the people are divided and certain untruths and forms of bigotry*** rise to the surface and pollute society and potentially a new generation.

*quick note - this is not to say there are not any problems with areas like immigration (there obviously has been over the years), just that they can be manipulated and overplayed.

**second quick note - this is not to try and demonise the upper classes, many of whom I am sure would like a fairer society

***final quick note - not everything that criticises is bigotry of course. Different cultures have their negative sides, as does ours (ours used loosely as there is of course no one culture, which I see as a good thing), and the right to criticise should not be removed, simply critiqued itself, thoroughly.

Agree with so much of that.

So you see no difference what so ever between the oppression of an ethinc group that has been systematically abducted into slavery and thereafter systematically discriminated against for 300 years and what you consider to be the oppression (you really have to explain that one closer too) of the BNP? Really?

You certainly are. The whole idea of living "away from multiculturalism" is daft in itself, considering the world has been in a multicultural state at least since Egypt started bringing in slaves from differrent territories c.a 8000 BC...

I'm not sure multi culturalism and differnet races living in the same country are one and the same. Worldwide there are alomost no examples of succesful multi culturalism but it seems to me the only times it does seem to work is where the 'other' culture has at least 25% of the population.

Anyway, I just wondered if it was still socially acceptable to call a Burnley fan a Dingle?

Where do you draw the line?

Well we've no intention of stopping calling you lot B'stards so I'd be disappointed if you stopped :-)

I would like to know if I can call a British pensioner living in Spain and getting heating allowance, a sponger? Is that racism against a minority.

I still think the Society of Black Lawyers, would have been better advised to have called themselves the Society of Non White Lawyers.

That would have been far more accommodating to many more minority groups.

One of my all time heroes is Nelson Mandela. I was a big supporter of the anti apartheid movement. Remember that this was about the oppression of a majority in their own country, by a minority who had virtually stolen it. In this case the British ( relatively liberal in their views) and the Dutch, who were bigoted in the extreme.

By the way, Nelson Mandela had no problem calling black people black, nor a board on the wall of a schoolroom a blackboard. Racism seems to be what the PC brigade make of it.

Trouble is the things in South Africa haven't really improved much. The majority on the Black population live in relative poverty, whilst a small number have become very wealthy. The gap between rich and poor is now greater than it was under apartheid, a system designed to keep most of the population poor. I'm afraid much of the New SA is not a great example of anything, let alone multi culturalism.

[Commondore]

I'm not sure multi culturalism and differnet races living in the same country are one and the same. Worldwide there are alomost no examples of succesful multi culturalism but it seems to me the only times it does seem to work is where the 'other' culture has at least 25% of the population.

What are you talking about? How exactly does one measure how multi cultural a society is, and I'm especially curious about how you brand them as "succesfull" or not?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

and the cultural values of a small area of Pakistan from where the vast majority of the non white population of the town originates from.

I do believe there are more Indians living in Blackburn than Pakistanis...NOW THEN SI THI!