[Archived] Bolton vs Rovers

[Gav]

Allardyce wasn't the only manager out there, there were people who could have come into Rovers and done as good as a job if not better. You would have to ask Venky's why instead of targeting that sort of manager they went for a complete novice. If Allardyce had been replaced by someone like Laudrup and Rovers had been successful it would have been a case of Sam who?

Absolutely, it was his replacement that was the criminal, not his sacking.

Sounds like Allardyce will find himself out of work again soon if the rumours are anything to go by.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Parsonblue's match report is now published to the front page here.

[Rover_Shaun]

Some are also under the illusion this club can afford to wait two years for a manager to do something his past shows no evidence of.

Does anyone honestly think he will survive when we are below 10th in October after he's blown the budget on below average duckeggs?

I wonder if hollow words will save him then?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Parsonblue's match report is now published to the front page here.

Thanks once again Parson, some of us rely on your objectivity.

[Tom]

Jesus blue and white army you've made your point you are just repeating yourself over and over in different threads now

Plus you still haven't come up with a viable alternative unless you simply trust Shebby and Shaw and Agnew so much to get it right regardless?

[Jimmy612]

Absolutely, it was his replacement that was the criminal, not his sacking.

Sounds like Allardyce will find himself out of work again soon if the rumours are anything to go by.

Not true, his sacking was as criminal as the recruitment process imo. It has long been my observation that you fail to admit your wrongdoing in this subject Gav, rather like Toppers and B&WA. I remember the night he was sacked I said we would go down, silly me, I was about 12 months out with my prediction. You however have been proven wrong time and time and time again, and still you bleat on about a 'replacement'. Who would have been an adequate replacement in your opinion?

Unfortunately for SA, his last 3 jobs have been at clubs whereby the fans seem to have a jumped up opinion of their football clubs..Newcastle, Wham and Rovers. In 2 out of 3 he has done a top job, in the other, he was never given a chance. So far 2 out of the 3 sides have suffered relegation after being stupid enough to sack him. I suspect if Gold & Sullivan elect to listen to their moronic fans they will follow suit.

[PAFELL]

Some are also under the illusion this club can afford to wait two years for a manager to do something his past shows no evidence of.

Does anyone honestly think he will survive when we are below 10th in October after he's blown the budget on below average duckeggs?

I wonder if hollow words will save him then?

Really? What does his past show?

I suggest he did ok at pompey considering he would not know what players were there on a daily basis. Or even if there would be a club. All down to a owners who had run the club badly. Ironically pomey fans don't have a bad word to say about him. They understood the situation he was given.

He went to Blackpool, who were on a bad run when he arrived - which he stopped.

His history really says he has been a manager of a badly run club and another that was on a bad run. Sounds like Rovers to me.

[Parsonblue]

Some are also under the illusion this club can afford to wait two years for a manager to do something his past shows no evidence of.

Does anyone honestly think he will survive when we are below 10th in October after he's blown the budget on below average duckeggs?

I wonder if hollow words will save him then?

If he's blown the budget there will be no point in sacking him will there. Who would want the job with no money and knowing that the fans would want him out after half a dozen games if he doesn't get results?

[Fife Rover]

Tad harsh with the insults but apart from that cracking post and totally agree with it. There are no managers who have achieved success with small clubs on limited budgets in the premiership for coming up to 9 years, apart from Sam Allardyce. And there are only a handful who've done it for half as long, Pulis, Hughes, Moyes at a higher level, running out already. Laudrup doesn't count until he's done it for another 2-3 seasons, and given the hype surrounding the likes of Holloway and Coyle to begin with, thats by no means guaranteed.

The point is history states pretty strongly indicates that there aren't plenty of managers like Sam if you're talking about sustained success. There may be plenty who can do it for a year or 2, and plenty who can do it given money. But no money, and for a long time, there are barely any. So this rolled out excuse of those fans short-sighted enough to want Sam out simply doesn't wash. The biggest mistake wasn't who we replaced him with, it was replacing him in the first place.

No it wasn't a mistake replacing him (If we hadn't we would not have had any manager). The mistake was sacking him......and it was a very grave and very expensive mistake!!

[DE.]

Allardyce wasn't the only manager out there, there were people who could have come into Rovers and done as good as a job if not better. You would have to ask Venky's why instead of targeting that sort of manager they went for a complete novice. If Allardyce had been replaced by someone like Laudrup and Rovers had been successful it would have been a case of Sam who?

The problem is, your argument is based completely on if's and maybe's, which renders it irrelevant. The only fact is that Sam did a great job when he was here and proved he could keep us in the Premier League. Therefore his sacking IS wrong no matter how many "what if's" people try to justify it with.

[Stuart]

Absolutely, it was his replacement that was the criminal, not his sacking.

Sounds like Allardyce will find himself out of work again soon if the rumours are anything to go by.

I've just checked the date but I think I need a second opinion. It is 2013, isn't it??

BRFCS must have have beaten the space time continuum cos it's still 2011 on here.

[Fife Rover]

That was the point I was trying to make Maj. We need to stick with Appleton and give him time to try to rebuild the club even if it takes a year or two. As I pointed out yesterday the likes of Ken Furphy, Gordon Lee, Jim Smith and Howard Kendall all endured poor runs of results but they all did a decent job for the club long term. Too many people are taking a short term view with Appleton and I fully agree if we sack him nobody in their right mind would come within 100 miles of this club.

+100

[Majiball]

That was the point I was trying to make Maj. We need to stick with Appleton and give him time to try to rebuild the club even if it takes a year or two. As I pointed out yesterday the likes of Ken Furphy, Gordon Lee, Jim Smith and Howard Kendall all endured poor runs of results but they all did a decent job for the club long term. Too many people are taking a short term view with Appleton and I fully agree if we sack him nobody in their right mind would come within 100 miles of this club.

Great minds.

Some are also under the illusion this club can afford to wait two years for a manager to do something his past shows no evidence of.

Does anyone honestly think he will survive when we are below 10th in October after he's blown the budget on below average duckeggs?

I wonder if hollow words will save him then?

No-ones saying give him two years but 10 games after almost 100 of dross and disaster is not enough to turn things around. Give him the summer and the start of next season and we'll have a better idea of where we are headed with Appleton in charge.

The problem is, your argument is based completely on if's and maybe's, which renders it irrelevant. The only fact is that Sam did a great job when he was here and proved he could keep us in the Premier League. Therefore his sacking IS wrong no matter how many "what if's" people try to justify it with.

Sam retaining us in the premier league under Venky's is also and if but and maybe.

So the whole arguement is Kean and we should just leave it where it belongs in the past.

[Amo]

Not true, his sacking was as criminal as the recruitment process imo. It has long been my observation that you fail to admit your wrongdoing in this subject Gav, rather like Toppers and B&WA.

I have nothing to admit except my genius.

Experienced managers have been sacked by new owners before and the clubs have lived to tell the tale. It's only Venky's major cock-up at just about every level which is why we find ourselves in the position we're in.

[DE.]

Sam retaining us in the premier league under Venky's is also and if but and maybe.

So the whole arguement is Kean and we should just leave it where it belongs in the past.

I'm not talking about what may or may not have happened in the future though. I'm only talking about what the situation was at the precise moment Allardyce was sacked. In that moment, was it wrong to sack him? Regardless of any if's, but's or maybe's, the answer is unquestionably yes.

[jim mk2]

Not true, his sacking was as criminal as the recruitment process imo. It has long been my observation that you fail to admit your wrongdoing in this subject Gav, rather like Toppers and B&WA. I remember the night he was sacked I said we would go down, silly me, I was about 12 months out with my prediction. You however have been proven wrong time and time and time again, and still you bleat on about a 'replacement'. Who would have been an adequate replacement in your opinion?

Unfortunately for SA, his last 3 jobs have been at clubs whereby the fans seem to have a jumped up opinion of their football clubs..Newcastle, Wham and Rovers. In 2 out of 3 he has done a top job, in the other, he was never given a chance. So far 2 out of the 3 sides have suffered relegation after being stupid enough to sack him. I suspect if Gold & Sullivan elect to listen to their moronic fans they will follow suit.

Top post dear boy.

[G Somerset Rover]

Edit - moved to Appleton thread

[Majiball]

I'm not talking about what may or may not have happened in the future though. I'm only talking about what the situation was at the precise moment Allardyce was sacked. In that moment, was it wrong to sack him? Regardless of any if's, but's or maybe's, the answer is unquestionably yes.

But it is it's an opinion.

[darrenrover]

My personal take on matters regarding Sam for what it's worth.

I thought he did a great job with limited resources. From an entertainment perspective, his style of football bored me to death but was undeniably effective.

I could not understand the timing of his dismissal but foolishly signed up to the new ethos at the time.

Given the benefit of hindsight, I'd have Sam Allardyce back in a heart beat. Given a few quid to spend, who knows where we may be now.

[DE.]

But it is it's an opinion.

It's an opinion that Allardyce had proven he could keep us in the Premier League and at that precise moment in time had us on course to stay up again?

[John]

We were on course for another top ten finish when he got sacked.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If he's blown the budget there will be no point in sacking him will there. Who would want the job with no money and knowing that the fans would want him out after half a dozen games if he doesn't get results?

I've got to agree with Parson in the final analysis. The merry go round has to stop for at least this season.

Re The big Sam issue. My first thought when I heard he'd been sacked was " How many more points will we need to stay up because we could be in deep @#/? now ".

[Stuart]

And in deep Kean we were too...

[Majiball]

First and foremost I'm not trying to be an ass.

It's an opinion that Allardyce had proven he could keep us in the Premier League and at that precise moment in time had us on course to stay up again?

Yes he kept us up, but for all we know we could have gone down under him. You can say it's highly probable but you can't say fact.

We were on course for another top ten finish when he got sacked.

And we could have lost every game from then till the end of the season.

I could flip this around and say that Kean had us on course for promotion and so it was wrong to sack/push him.

The Sam debate needs burying, we need to focus on the now, not if's and buts.

[DE.]

Yes he kept us up, but for all we know we could have gone down under him. You can say it's highly probable but you can't say fact.

I understand that Maj, but again I'm not talking about what could have happened in the future. All I'm saying is that there is no logic behind saying sacking Allardyce was the right decision, regardless of what Venky's could or might have done - this based solely on the fact he had kept us up previously and the fact he was on course at that moment in time to do so again. What may have happened in the future is irrelevant.