[Archived] Administration

[Blue blood]

When I went searching for this thread I was surprised how long it was since comment was made. Our current form, i.e. points collected rather than actual team play, and the last two results got me thinking about the likely outcome for this season. Several people have commented we are looking for promotion on the cheap and others say we are in huge financial trouble without promotion. So what's the plan? This is how I see it.

Clearly everyone, including Venkys, wants promotion which looks increasingly unlikely unless we put together a very good string of results. We need to go on a good run and recent results, when the opportunity to hit top six was there, suggest we can't or won't achieve a significant run. With half our games gone we have 31 points, averaging 1.4 points / game, which will give us +/- 64 for the season.

Football League clubs must go into administration before the fourth Thursday in March to take the points deduction in the same season, after that it carries forward to the next season.

By the time we have played Watford on Tuesday, March 25th, we could be on the 52 point mark. If we take administration and a points deduction by the 27th AND continue our average form we would finish on 54 points (52-10 = 42 plus last 8 games, 12 points = 54). Currently the bottom seven clubs cannot achieve more than 52 points if their average form continues, four of them already have at least -18 goal difference.

I reckon there are some interesting calculations going on in Pune. The real key is the extent of our football and non-football debts. If the football debts are very significant, and we have to pay these, how successful or otherwise administration would be is a huge question.

Good post, and we are looking at admnistration sooner or later. I do wonder if Venkys will gamble on us going up and not pull the administration trigger this season. Only problem with that is that if we have to take it at the end of the season, then we'll really struggle next season. The player fire sale will be the same and -10 pts could well and truly see us relegated.

I guess logically that unless we make a proper push for promotion in January (unlikely given that we think we're doing that now) taking admin this season is the sensible thing to do (assuming football debts aren't too big). Problem is I cannot think of ONE decision made by Venkys that has been the sensible course of action. I've a feeling if there's a way to manage administration well, then we'll avoid it/.

[John]

Aside from promotion, realistically, how can administration be avoided?

[Stuart]

So it's 87 days and counting (to 27th March).

If we get to that point without going into admin, then surely they won't do it over the Summer? It's going to be squeaky bums when that deadline gets to single figures. Knowing Venkys they will probably submit the admin paperwork on 28th March and then wonder what went wrong.

Aside from promotion, realistically, how can administration be avoided?

By Venkys paying off all of our debts. Which is why wanting them out at this stage is very dangerous. I don't think fans bucket collecting is going to make much of a dent.

[broadsword]

The January transfer window should be a good indicator, no?

I don't think Rhodes will go as Venky's are too stubborn/foolish to realise that no-one will pay £8m for him (except them, of course). But will they bring anyone in? It could be the last throw of the dice. There are also a significant grouping of players we'd love to bin, but no-one in their right mind would take them on. I'd expect them to stay.

Quite plainly, the play-offs are beyond us without 2 or possibly 3 half-decent players coming in (although Corry Evans coming back would be like a new signing). Will Cairney be signed?

Even if we make the top six, the play-offs will be a lottery. But finishing 7th (but for a 10 pt deduction ...) for the want of spending a few dollars more would be hard to take.

All this could be academic of course, with the bank keen to pull the plug as soon as possible.

[John]

How is our financial situation different with other clubs with similar debt? Do we know how we stack up against other clubs in the top 2 divisions.

[McClarky]

Surely administration is solely up to our beloved owners. If they own most of the debt and they choose to keep going we will just continue our sorry demise as we are. If they choose to pull the plug then administration s inevitable. As they still have no clue what they're doing who knows what will happen?

[Rover_Shaun]

Another unknown. If Venkys decided to have one last spending spurge would Bowyer use any last ditch funds wisely?

[darrenrover]

So it's 87 days and counting (to 27th March).

If we get to that point without going into admin, then surely they won't do it over the Summer? It's going to be squeaky bums when that deadline gets to single figures. Knowing Venkys they will probably submit the admin paperwork on 28th March and then wonder what went wrong.

By Venkys paying off all of our debts. Which is why wanting them out at this stage is very dangerous. I don't think fans bucket collecting is going to make much of a dent.

Administration? That's filing paperwork that secretary's do daily isn't it?

Joking aside, we're all second guessing what the gameplan is, if indeed there is one. I can't believe that if Admin was a plan and that Venkys were then to wash their hands, they'd be bothered whether we remained in The Championship or not.

Unless FFP is challenged, how on earth could our infrastructure be maintained on an ongoing basis, even as a scaled down version, on an annual income stream of less than £10 million? Never mind taking into account the accrued football related debt that would have to be taken care of in addition.

Rock and a hard place.

[FGS5635]

If we do go plan on going into admin before 27th March do we need to fax any paperwork off? If the answer is yes I'd say we are safe as there isnt enough time now for shelfy to figure it out before march

[Stuart]

If we do go plan on going into admin before 27th March do we need to fax any paperwork off? If the answer is yes I'd say we are safe as there isnt enough time now for shelfy to figure it out before march

You can go into admin whenever you like. It's the season in which the 10 point eduction is made that is the issue.

Administration? That's filing paperwork that secretary's do daily isn't it?

Joking aside, we're all second guessing what the gameplan is, if indeed there is one. I can't believe that if Admin was a plan and that Venkys were then to wash their hands, they'd be bothered whether we remained in The Championship or not.

Unless FFP is challenged, how on earth could our infrastructure be maintained on an ongoing basis, even as a scaled down version, on an annual income stream of less than £10 million? Never mind taking into account the accrued football related debt that would have to be taken care of in addition.

Rock and a hard place.

I'm not sure how FFP impact stuff like the academy. In principle if it's a running cost of the club then it would fall under our total cost base which should therefore mean curtains if we can't afford the running costs. However, it may be that it could be changed to the Venkys 'Player Hatchery' Academy and players are 'sold' to Rovers but that might incur tax complications.

On the face of it FFP could undo a lot of the good work that has been done to create the infrastructure but if we can't afford it, we can't afford it. I don't expect we would get any sympathy from League One clubs who can't afford that infrastructure though.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

This is Venkys. EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED!!

One matter is a certainty...we the fans will be the last to know full stop,just don the tin Hats and hold tight.

We are owned by people who should be NOWHERE near a professional Football Club.

[Parsonblue]

You can go into admin whenever you like. It's the season in which the 10 point eduction is made that is the issue.

I'm not sure how FFP impact stuff like the academy. In principle if it's a running cost of the club then it would fall under our total cost base which should therefore mean curtains if we can't afford the running costs. However, it may be that it could be changed to the Venkys 'Player Hatchery' Academy and players are 'sold' to Rovers but that might incur tax complications.

On the face of it FFP could undo a lot of the good work that has been done to create the infrastructure but if we can't afford it, we can't afford it. I don't expect we would get any sympathy from League One clubs who can't afford that infrastructure though.

Stuart, my understanding is that FFP doesn't impact on what the owners can invest at Academy level. I think they can continue to support the Academy with cash without adding to the debt with regard to FFP.

[CapeTownRover]

no need to panic guys, Venkys has a plan

[Stuart]

Stuart, my understanding is that FFP doesn't impact on what the owners can invest at Academy level. I think they can continue to support the Academy with cash without adding to the debt with regard to FFP.

Good stuff

[perthblue02]

no need to panic guys, Venkys has a plan

Not sure putting underpants on your head, chopsticks up your nose and saying wibble wobble ala Blackadder but with fingers in ears is going to work in this instance

[Kamy100]

For what it is worth, I have been told that owners will review things in May, and no decisions about what happens next will be made in March. They will though ask Shaw to try and bring down wages this January, even the possibility of letting players like Best leave with is picking up 40 to 50 percent of his wages for next 18 months.

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[thenodrog]

For what it is worth, I have been told that owners will review things in May, and no decisions about what happens next will be made in March. They will though ask Shaw to try and bring down wages this January, even the possibility of letting players like Best leave with is picking up 40 to 50 percent of his wages for next 18 months.

All it'd take would be one bad visit to the Doctors and I might just be very easily tempted to take care of the Leon problem for the club. Might as well have a decent clear out at the same time. Anybody care to make a list?

[McClarky]

The situation is still under review then. No change then from the last 3 years.

[Stuart]

All it'd take would be one bad visit to the Doctors and I might just be very easily tempted to take care of the Leon problem for the club. Might as well have a decent clear out at the same time. Anybody care to make a list?

Not even in jest, Gordon.

[tomphil]

The situation is still under review then. No change then from the last 3 years.

They just need that confusion to clear first. Once it does everything will be as clear as mud to them.

[perthblue02]

For what it is worth, I have been told that owners will review things in May, and no decisions about what happens next will be made in March. They will though ask Shaw to try and bring down wages this January, even the possibility of letting players like Best leave with is picking up 40 to 50 percent of his wages for next 18 months.

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So we are still on track for qualifying for Europe in under two years time then, fair do's, some people thought that woman was talking out her arse after she had become an expert on football in two months

[broadsword]

Doesn't make any sense, alarm bells should be ringing, yet they can't be assed reviewing things until the summer.

Never mind fiddling while Rome burns, do they even know there's a fire going on?

[John]

Wonder if they are still confused and understand the meaning of relegation yet?

Pune BRFC Academy still being set up I hope.

[Roverthechimp]

Can somebody with a better understanding explain what Venkys would gain from putting us in administration if the majority of debt is owed to themselves?

(I understand that we are still losing money but will we still be losing money next season IF Dunn, Robinson, Dann, Best, DJ, Etuhu, Orr, portugeezers and perhaps even Rhodes/Rochina are moved on?)

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Can somebody with a better understanding explain what Venkys would gain from putting us in administration if the majority of debt is owed to themselves?

(I understand that we are still losing money but will we still be losing money next season IF Dunn, Robinson, Dann, Best, DJ, Etuhu, Orr, portugeezers and perhaps even Rhodes/Rochina are moved on?)

Really good question for those saying Administration is a fore gone conclusion. Also - if we go into administration - are the players effectively out of contract ? If they are - surely the Venky's will sell Rhodes, Dann and anyone that will fetch a fee in January to recoup their losses before going into administration.

It is amazing that people think administration is the only logical conclusion - when nothing our owners have ever done with the club has been logical.