[Archived] Should Rhodes be dropped?

[Tom]

Tomorrow will tell us more lets be honest the only times Best and Rhodes have been given proper time together they were up against Shittu and try as he might Leon Best wasn't going to win that battle overall

Against other defences he may have more joy and be able to bring Rhodes into the game who will score if given enough chances

[RevidgeBlue]

That just goes to illustrate that he doesn't create chances/goals either. Which is what the whole discussion is about.

He's not there to create. He's a striker. He's there to put the ball in the back of the net. And he's done that very successfully this season on very limited service. Now the service has dwindled to practically zero.

We had one creative player, Rochina, who was a cut above the other "seven number tens" our esteemed manager was so scathing about and Appleton informed him he wasn't part of his plans. The next best, Vukcevic was released so it's hardly any wonder we're struggling for inspiration/goals now.

You made a comment in the other thread that you'd rather have a couple of 15-20 goal strikers with a more complete all round game than Rhodes. Nothing wrong with that - if you've got 30m quid to invest.

[thenodrog]

He's not there to create. He's a striker. He's there to put the ball in the back of the net. And he's done that very successfully this season on very limited service. Now the service has dwindled to practically zero.

We had one creative player, Rochina, who was a cut above the other "seven number tens" our esteemed manager was so scathing about and Appleton informed him he wasn't part of his plans. The next best, Vukcevic was released so it's hardly any wonder we're struggling for inspiration/goals now.

You made a comment in the other thread that you'd rather have a couple of 15-20 goal strikers with a more complete all round game than Rhodes. Nothing wrong with that - if you've got 30m quid to invest.

I understand what you are saying about Rochina Simon (he'd still be here if it was my decision but I guess there was some murky backhanders involved in his deal which must not sit right with some) but I cannot for the life of me think why you would even mention Vukcevic in the same sentence. So many on here speak of him in almost reverential awe but imo he's done sweet fa to deserve such adulation. In fact he's looked bog ordinary.

As for Rhodes... He just isn't a target man and reminds me very much of Gallagher. If he wants to play at the top he needs to learn how to play 'in the hole' and feed off a target man. Unfortunatey for him that also involves graft, tackling ability and the ability to create for others. I'm not sure those requirements sit well with him.

[den]

He's not there to create. He's a striker. He's there to put the ball in the back of the net. And he's done that very successfully this season on very limited service. Now the service has dwindled to practically zero.

We had one creative player, Rochina, who was a cut above the other "seven number tens" our esteemed manager was so scathing about and Appleton informed him he wasn't part of his plans. The next best, Vukcevic was released so it's hardly any wonder we're struggling for inspiration/goals now.

You made a comment in the other thread that you'd rather have a couple of 15-20 goal strikers with a more complete all round game than Rhodes. Nothing wrong with that - if you've got 30m quid to invest.

They don't cost that in this league Rev.

As for "he's not there to create" - why isn't he? A striker is there to give the back four a hard time - even if he isn't scoring. No player can go through a game contributing nothing at all, for any length of time - do you think they can? I wouldn't drop Rhodes Simon, but if he doesn't do the job he's as likely to lose his place as the next man.

[RevidgeBlue]

They don't cost that in this league Rev.

As for "he's not there to create" - why isn't he? A striker is there to give the back four a hard time - even if he isn't scoring. No player can go through a game contributing nothing at all, for any length of time - do you think they can? I wouldn't drop Rhodes Simon, but if he doesn't do the job he's as likely to lose his place as the next man.

That would leave us with no -one left on the pitch!

With the type of players Appleton has brought in there's only one way to go imo, get the ball out wide and cross it in to the 2 strikers from dangerous areas.

What I don't understand is that we don't appear to be even trying to do this. If the players appeared to be trying to do this but weren't good enough to pull it off then fair enough. But we don't even seem to be attempting it.

[den]

What I don't understand is that we don't appear to be even trying to do this. If the players appeared to be trying to do this but weren't good enough to pull it off then fair enough.

The players aren't good enough and haven't been since Venky's sacked Sam and started selling them off.

[RevidgeBlue]

They don't cost that in this league Rev.

Just on that point, how many 15-20 goal strikers are there in this League?

Without checking I'd guess Austin, Rhodes and Murray? And you wouldn't see much change for 15m out of any of them if their Chairmen had any sense.

[Tom]

Just on that point, how many 15-20 goal strikers are there in this League?

Without checking I'd guess Austin, Rhodes and Murray? And you wouldn't see much change for 15m out of any of them if their Chairmen had any sense.

And how much did they all cost when bought? Even now I doubt any of them are above ten million, Rhodes certainly wouldn't go for that much

You can add Becchio, wood, ince and vydra to that list with the likes of Marlon king not far off

Ince is the only one who would go for around £15m

Your £30m comment for two is way way way off

[thenodrog]

I'm not sure we'll get our money back on Jordan Rhodes Simon. The only money around is in the Prem and I'm not sure he has enough about his game to step up.

[Tom]

Murray Crystal Palace 27

Austin Burnley 23

Rhodes Blackburn 22

Vydra Watford 20

Wood Leicester 18

Ince Blackpool 17

Becchio Leeds 15

Anyone put prices on those players when they were signed? I'll put my house on that they wouldn't total £30m

[RevidgeBlue]

That's it then! All we have to do is come up with 2 previously undiscovered gems on a free transfer who can contribute 15-20 goals each!

Simples!

[Tom]

That's it then! All we have to do is come up with 2 previously undiscovered gems on a free transfer who can contribute 15-20 goals each!

Simples!

Hold on it was you that said it would take £30m I just proved otherwise

Wood was hardly undiscovered when he cost 1 million either

You way over exaggerated a point then further asked a question about who had scored that many goals and I simply replied with facts, sorry about that

[LeChuck]

That's it then! All we have to do is come up with 2 previously undiscovered gems on a free transfer who can contribute 15-20 goals each!

Simples!

Bloody hell Rev you are hard work!

Even when proven wrong you still retain that same condescending tone.

Sod scouting and buying wisely like other clubs eh? Let's spuff £8m up the wall. Easier innit?

[T4E]

That's it then! All we have to do is come up with 2 previously undiscovered gems on a free transfer who can contribute 15-20 goals each!

Simples!

Wood and Murray were previously undiscovered? Your lack of knowledge is letting you down here.

[92er]

When I went to the Ipswich match, my pal talked to me about Rhodes.

He made the comment that most of his goals came from mistakes by the other team than by our constructive play.

He also said that Rhodes only very rarely missed chances.

The comment was made fairly early during the match-which was ironical as Rhodes missed 3 or 4 chances that he could have put away. They weren't the easiest of chances, but they were the kind that he was scoring up to that time.

If the other teams are now not making the kinds of mistakes for Rhodes to exploit, this does suggest something has changed in the way we're playing-either tactics or the way the team is being set up.

But it also suggests that Rhodes needs some help to overcome what might be physical or mental problems in terms of putting away chances and thereby return to his previous form.

[Amo]

Rhodes should not be made a scapegoat. Very few strikers would profit from the way we've been "playing" lately.

[LeChuck]

I'd show be showing Rhodes a video tape of Rickie Lambert each week.

He's not quick, not much bigger than Rhodes, but his touch, movement and awareness make him the focal point of Southampton attacks.

By contrast I'd be pointing towards Darren Bent and Adam Le Fondre. If all you're capable of is finishing chances then you'll soon be on the bench. It's not enough.

[Tom]

Just a shame we couldn't keep the Yak for him to learn from

[joey_big_nose]

We have to change the way we play. I guess we are hoofing it as there is an idea that it allows us to keep a disciplind shape and be defensively sound. But, as others have said, we just can't score goals from it. We need to find a middle ground of being defensively solid but also get the ball to Rhodes in the area. Best bet for me is going 4231. It plays to our fullbacks and wingers who are decent. You could do something like this:-

-----------------Kean

Henley---Hanley----Dann---Olsson

------------Lowe----Jones

----Bentley----Dunn-----King

----------------Rhodes

And look primarily to use the full backs pace and Dunn in the middle to carry the ball forward.

[onlyonejackwalker]

It's the formation that's the problem and Joey is heading along the right lines above. We need to retain possession and control the game far better. An extra man in midfield and one up top would be far more sensible whilst we are struggling so badly to create and score.

[thenodrog]

Being a striker is a strange one. Sometimes you can't miss and sometimes you cannot buy a goal. It happens to 99% of them. Rhodes should be shown no favouritism cos that just breeds resentment and damages squad morale. If his performance is below his and our expectations he must be benched. If that doesn't happen then the other strikers lose belief in the manager, other players see the same thing and then the rot sets in. A large part of managing a team is psychology but quite a few appear to not understand that.

[thenodrog]

It's the formation that's the problem and Joey is heading along the right lines above. We need to retain possession and control the game far better. An extra man in midfield and one up top would be far more sensible whilst we are struggling so badly to create and score.

Indeed so. A 4-5-1 should allow us to press further up the pitch and pressure the areas around the opponents pen area and thats when the skills of the likes of a Rochina, a Bentley or a Dunn are best utilised. Most of our weaknesses this season are about the defence playing too deep and big gaps appearing when the outnumbered midfield were too slow to track back which allowed the opposition to pressurise the full backs and flirt crosses across the box almost at will. Since Millwall home in Nov we have been sussed and goal after goal has come from the same wide areas. A Sunday league manager could see that and thats why I have been so critical of Appletons stupid attempts to play 4-4-2 verging at times last week on 4-2 bloody 4!

[thenodrog]

It seems Gary Bowyer has been reading this thread.

[ABBEY]

he's tired bless.

[Waggy76]

No , he should not ...

Just hope , I am proved wrong !