[Archived] Protest: Good Friday v Blackpol

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

If it's just the name bothering you SKH, we can call it Lancashire County.

I'm not that precious!

Yeah got a bit carried away there. Just can't stand this approach of picking something successful and fashionable to copy in the belief that success and popularity will then rub off. If this somehow went ahead and called itself United it would look like a pathetically besotted and very uncool younger brother of Man U.

Regarding the idea itself, the alternative is to be a 2nd tier club with occasional forays into the 1st and 3rd tiers. I'd rather support that than an artifical creation which gains more success and sacrifices everything else in the process. If we're going down that route then the 4-tier system of english football, with all its character, variety and town-pride, may as well be abandoned completely in favour of a 1-division set of regional franchises.

[Gav]

You two have chosen to put your heads over the parapet so come on stop easy criticism and explain how would make BRFC into a self financing, top line club in the future without the help of a Fairy Godfather? Off you go and either put up or shut up.... or better still shut the @#/? up.

You need to calm down a bit, you know you can't get worked up at your age

[jim mk2]

You two have chosen to put your heads over the parapet so come on stop easy criticism and explain how would make BRFC into a self financing, top line club in the future without the help of a Fairy Godfather? Off you go and either put up or shut up.... or better still shut the @#/? up.

How many people would go and watch "Lancashire United" instead of Rovers (I certainly wouldn't and I suspect 90 per cent of Rovers fans wouldn't either) and who says "Lancashire United" would be self-financing ? Why do you think it would work or be any better than what we have at present ?

Try to reply without swearing.

[47er]

Theno, aren't you off-topic?!!!!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

If you polled the fans of Rovers,Burnley Bolton,Preston and Blackpool the answer would be a unanimous and resounding NO to the idea theno .I understand your reasoning behind 'Lancashire Utd' but no fans would want to see their club disappear to form some footballing abomination.

It will never happen and I raise a glass to that.

[Stuart]

SG, what if the erstwhile club had already disappeared?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I feel many would be just happy with their memories Stuart and would find other entertainment come Saturday afternoon.

[Stuart]

So if me and Gordon set up Lancashire County FC, they might come and watch that?

Surely more chance than heading over to the cobbled end of the M65 on a Saturday afternoon to watch another established historic club in the area?

We have the greatest history - including recent times - out of any of our local 'rivals' but we are now on a downward trajectory. We've been saddled with these owners at the wrong time in our history and FFP means that we can't be saved by another Jack.

Clinging on to the past will do nothing for the future support of the club. Most of whom will don United or City shirts anyway.

I don't see how much longer the league can sustain 92 clubs and in 30 years time - when my kids are my age, the chances are there will be half as many clubs with a number of amalgamations, and all we'll have is our history and the glint in the eye of a teary old man.

Wonder if my kids - or their kids - will be wondering why all of our once mighty clubs didn't adapt.

All I'll be able to respond with is the age old:

"We were too proud, lad".

[AndyNeil]

SG, what if the erstwhile club had already disappeared?

Speaking personally and somebody who takes my young lad to matches, if Rovers did go under with no sign of a return then I'd probably take him to watch a local lower league team ie. Accy Stanley, Darwen or Chorley - I imagine after a while quite a few would, even if it was only to get their Saturday afternoon fix of football.

[Stuart]

Speaking personally and somebody who takes my young lad to matches, if Rovers did go under with no sign of a return then I'd probably take him to watch a local lower league team ie. Accy Stanley, Darwen or Chorley - I imagine after a while quite a few would, even if it was only to get their Saturday afternoon fix of football.

That's probably true and, to be honest Stanley is (very probably) where I'd head.

But aren't we simply destined to create another League One team by remaining - to quote the sage that is Vinjay - parochial?

[AndyNeil]

That's probably true and, to be honest Stanley is (very probably) where I'd head.

But aren't we simply destined to create another League One team by remaining - to quote the sage that is Vinjay - parochial?

if the people of the town and local area got behind the team in numbers (ie 20k plus per home match), then I'm sure we'd be an attractive club for somebody to buy...if they supported the club on a modest basis, then I'm sure we could be a mid-table premier league club again. The problem is, people always want more...without support and investment we ARE a Championship/League 1 club.

[broadsword]

So if me and Gordon set up Lancashire County FC, they might come and watch that?

Surely more chance than heading over to the cobbled end of the M65 on a Saturday afternoon to watch another established historic club in the area?

What makes you think a newly-found conglomerate club would have any more relevance to rovers fans than Burnley FC?

This is all stuff and nonsense. Where would the Blackburn rovers identity be within Lancashire County FC? It wouldn't, it would be lost. I can't even believe I'm debating this, it's embarrassing.

[Stuart]

if the people of the town and local area got behind the team in numbers (ie 20k plus per home match), then I'm sure we'd be an attractive club for somebody to buy...if they supported the club on a modest basis, then I'm sure we could be a mid-table premier league club again. The problem is, people always want more...without support and investment we ARE a Championship/League 1 club.

But it's still narrowed the catchment area and that is the fundamental problem. Per head of population for Blackburn, Rovers achieving gates of 30k+ is (was) unbelievable.

Trying to squeeze more out of that lot, or hoping for more out of an even smaller town like Accrington, well, the next round's on you!

Even at our height of post-Jack success, the Trust were having to subsidise to the tune of £3m per season. I'm not sure it's be much less than that now, even in League One. Especially when the price point for the club as a PL "product" was sub-£300 per season, imagine what the perception of value for a lower league outfit.

It's a self-fulfilling death spiral.

What makes you think a newly-found conglomerate club would have any more relevance to rovers fans than Burnley FC?

This is all stuff and nonsense. Where would the Blackburn rovers identity be within Lancashire County FC? It wouldn't, it would be lost. I can't even believe I'm debating this, it's embarrassing.

First para: historic pride and tribalism. As well as vitriolic hatred.

Second para: well thanks at least for having considered it enough to question. I think it's an interesting and relevant debate - and one that will get more relevant.

I hope Glenn has already bought the domain name(s)!

[broadsword]

But i

First para: historic pride and tribalism. As well as vitriolic hatred.

Second para: well thanks at least for having considered it enough to question. I think it's an interesting and relevant debate - and one that will get more relevant.

Time was when people used to watch Burnley when rovers were away and vice versa. I guess times change. But my point was more concerned with why someone would watch Lancashire County when they wouldn't want to watch Burnley.

The idea's laughable.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I'm really struggling to understand the point of all this. Are Rovers on the verge of going out of business? No. Will we be if Venkys sell us? Depends who buys us, but even if its a financially challenged group (like a fan consortium) then we'll just have to trim the wage bill or sell assets as necessary. Even in the very unlikely case that we do go out of business, no other clubs round here will have so none of their fans would support a newly-created Lancashire team. So if there's only Rovers fans supporting it why wouldn't we just call it Blackburn something?

Tribalism, historic pride, rivalry etc are the foundations of the fan passion you get in football that you don't get in many other sports. It might not be fashionable or part of the modern metrosexual era where some guys are as happy accompanying their wife shopping as they are going to the football. But its still a huge part of the game and ain't something you wanna lose. You lose that and you lose much of the loyalty and excitement that makes football by far the most popular sport in the country.

[Stuart]

Time was when people used to watch Burnley when rovers were away and vice versa. I guess times change. But my point was more concerned with why someone would watch Lancashire County when they wouldn't want to watch Burnley.

The idea's laughable.

With respect Bryan, you are a supporter born in a different era.

It's it so much the idea of a Rovers fan going to Burnley (to cheer on Burnley - and I've no reason to doubt your word on that) or vice versa but it's the fact that they wouldn't be welcome.

Even as recently as the wag Burmley fan being "interviewed" outside Ewood, a Rovers fan in the background abused him saying, to my memory, "there's no place for effing split loyalties 'round here, eff off".

I just don't think Bumley and Rovers fans would support each other - even in the event their own club folded. It's a matter of principle for a lot of people.

[broadsword]

Excuse me sunshine, how old do you think I am?

Right, so if Rovers fans wouldn't support Burnley, why should they support a composite club that Burnley is a part of?

[Stuart]

I'm really struggling to understand the point of all this. Are Rovers on the verge of going out of business? No. Will we be if Venkys sell us? Depends who buys us, but even if its a financially challenged group (like a fan consortium) then we'll just have to trim the wage bill or sell assets as necessary. Even in the very unlikely case that we do go out of business, no other clubs round here will have so none of their fans would support a newly-created Lancashire team. So if there's only Rovers fans supporting it why wouldn't we just call it Blackburn something?

Tribalism, historic pride, rivalry etc are the foundations of the fan passion you get in football that you don't get in many other sports. It might not be fashionable or part of the modern metrosexual era where some guys are as happy accompanying their wife shopping as they are going to the football. But its still a huge part of the game and ain't something you wanna lose. You lose that and you lose much of the loyalty and excitement that makes football by far the most popular sport in the country.

Good post.

Tribalism though is something that is passed down from generation to generation - if you are lucky and they go on to 'support' a 'big club'. If Blackburn did go bust (and how close to that we are is far from certain) the eventually fans would migrate but as football fans are born through parents taking children to games, that would take a couple of generations in all likelihood.

InvernessRover made the point the other day that ICT was a stale, artificial club but that will change after a couple of generations - if they can remain successful (third in the SPL currently?).

This is a long game and we probably wouldn't benefit but it's something that our grandchildren's children might be grateful of.

Striving for success is what makes football a competitive sport. If your team CAN'T compete, what's the point? It becomes as passive as a trip to the cinema.

So, in the absence of other alternatives, look for innovative ways to widen the catchment area and compromise for the sake of accessibility.

Or continue, in the lower leagues scraping by hoping for a good result against a local rival for the bragging rights of 6-7000 people. It's noble but is it the best option.

It'd be an interesting debate though, if the time does come: should a phoenix club aim for a dwindling Blackburn fanbase or further afield?

Excuse me sunshine, how old do you think I am?

Right, so if Rovers fans wouldn't support Burnley, why should they support a composite club that Burnley is a part of?

Sorry Brian. Maybe I've got you mixed up with someone else. I had you down as in your 60s!

Because, IMHO, a Bumley bloke can much more easily affiliate with Lancashire (his county of birth) than Blackburn (his "over my dead body" arch rivals).

[broadsword]

@#/? off, I feel old enough as it is, thanks!

So all the Lancashire clubs get subsumed into one, and all the old rivalries get forgotten because the new club represents Lancashire? Burnley fans standing side-by-sde with former rovers fans cheering on the team?

Give over. Pull the other one, mate.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Lancashire United? Hemmings tried a similar thing with local rugby league at PNE. Failed dismally, apart from ruining the pitch for football.

Financially it is a good idea in theory. But it is poorly thought out. Without fan support there would be no finances to worry about.

On topic, Pool have sold over 3000 tickets and Ince will be looking at this as a game he can win. Lose and we are in a real fight for survival. Time the players earnt there money and fought for the club and it's future. Protests can wait. Let's stay up first.

[gumboots]

Point is, I happen to live in Lancashire, but my football allegiance would never be to a lancashire Utd team, as I'm still very much a Yorkshire lass and could n't see myself supporting any football team with the name lancashire.

[Jimmy612]

@#/? off, I feel old enough as it is, thanks!

So all the Lancashire clubs get subsumed into one, and all the old rivalries get forgotten because the new club represents Lancashire? Burnley fans standing side-by-sde with former rovers fans cheering on the team?

Give over. Pull the other one, mate.

I think what Stuart is trying to explain is that this is not about us. I'm only in my 20's and I would probably not benefit from a Lancashire club. But if BRFC cease to exist then who will my kids support? Clubs in the North West can't keep their heads above water anymore, its a sad fact, but its glaringly obvious.

As Rovers & Portmouth & Coventry have experienced,it only takes one bad owner to send a club into a downward spiral. This will continue to happen and eventually Lancashire may well be a viable option. Not now, maybe not in my Kids lifetimes, who knows. But it is certainly worth considering in the future. Dismissing it completely may be a little short sighted.

[Stuart]

@#/? off, I feel old enough as it is, thanks!

So all the Lancashire clubs get subsumed into one, and all the old rivalries get forgotten because the new club represents Lancashire? Burnley fans standing side-by-sde with former rovers fans cheering on the team?

Give over. Pull the other one, mate.

Haha. Sorry pal. Maybe you should refrain from calling people 'sunshine'. Makes you sound old!

Hang on, you just told me you can't see why Burnley fans couldn't go and watch Rovers. Which is it?

It would take time. A long time but it would look after the long term future of competitive, professional football for the football people of Blackburn... Burnley, Preston, Blackpool...

It's an idea born out of perceived necessity rather than desire though Bryan.

Still this debate is surely better than reading about Mercerman's wife's treats, fineries and trappings?

Point is, I happen to live in Lancashire, but my football allegiance would never be to a lancashire Utd team, as I'm still very much a Yorkshire lass and could n't see myself supporting any football team with the name lancashire.

Haha. You have to be different, don't you?

I think what Stuart is trying to explain is that this is not about us. I'm only in my 20's and I would probably not benefit from a Lancashire club. But if BRFC cease to exist then who will my kids support? Clubs in the North West can't keep their heads above water anymore, its a sad fact, but its glaringly obvious.

As Rovers & Portmouth & Coventry have experienced,it only takes one bad owner to send a club into a downward spiral. This will continue to happen and eventually Lancashire may well be a viable option. Not now, maybe not in my Kids lifetimes, who knows. But it is certainly worth considering in the future. Dismissing it completely may be a little short sighted.

Spot on, James.

Now the question is: how far into the future should we wait before considering it?

[onlyonejackwalker]

Stuart...why has it never been considered or implemented before? In the 70's / 80's, PNE, Rovers, Burnley, Pool, Wigan all struggled to pay the bills and generate support.

[Stuart]

Stuart...why has it never been considered or implemented before? In the 70's / 80's, PNE, Rovers, Burnley, Pool, Wigan all struggled to pay the bills and generate support.

Great question.

Some suggestions...

Because the people in charge of these clubs cared more about the football, the town and fans than they did about the money.

Owners were attached to the community?

Lower costs to run the club? Lower debt?

Enough supporters to keep the club scraping by rather than crippled due to borrowing.

Pre-Bosman and transfer windows meant the ability to generate income through player sales?

Pre-Sky TV hype and lower fan expectations?

Local wealthy (relative to the club's costs) supporters helping out?

More community spirit?

Less apathy?