[Archived] What will it take for fans to get angry ?

[Stuart]

Whilst not wishing to decry the efforts or motives of SOS, my understanding was that Hicks and Gilette were forced out of Liverpool by the RBS being about to foreclose on the Club and the other directors managed to force them out.

That was my understanding as well.

Also the idea that SoS were able to turn up at G&H destinations suggests they had help (inside info) from someone within the club.

From what has been allowed to go on whilst certain people keep quiet and carry on taking a salary it suggests that we don't have allies within the boardroom, and the bank don't seem to be concerned - maybe with good reason.

Apart from telling BRAG to keep going, and keep being a nuisance, no matter how many fans or others you alienate, I'm not sure how their experiences help us.

Liverpool are a national institution with a worldwide fanbase and a wealth of celebrity, media and political fans, whilst we have Jack Straw, Andy Cryer and Doctor Who. They had the spotlight, the marketable global brand, the sympathy and were never going to go to the wall.

[Rover_Shaun]

Liverpool were also helped in the fact that the owners turned up more often and had more competent people running the club at the ground.

[Glenn]

Bloody Hell, Glen, Pafell, Spark & Rev all agreeing on something. Whatever I was on last night I need to bottle it and sell it!

So, how many of you that thought that it was an idea that had merit actually went so far as to type "india rich list" or "bollywood agents" or even "Balaji Rao -blackburn" into google? Not many I imagine and that's the problem, whilst most people want to make a difference, few will do the leg work without being told what to do.

Sadly it reminds me a lot of this scene from life of Brian

You have something that doesn't need a group or a committee to organise you, just go off and do! It you want to tell others, great, if you want share useful links you've found then great, but the key is more doing, less discussing what should be done.

If you REALLY don't know where to start, this article mentions Bala is good friends with Raj Kundra (married to Shelpa Shetty) who currently seems to have a sponsorship deal for his Fight League project with Venkys. Took about 10 seconds to google that.

[cn174]

We have met with the Spirit of Shankley a number of times, both in Liverpool and in Blackburn.

They told us not to get disheartened about anything which we may try or which we may feel was not a roaring success. They claimed every protest was a good protest and they had protest that only 2 or 3 people turned up. They made it clear their key was the wave of attacks, even if at times it was like banging their heads against the wall.

They staked out everywhere

Everytime they were due in the country they hounded them at the Airport, the hotels they stopped in, every venue they visited, every business or acquaintance they came into contact with.

The Spirit of Shankley drew massive opposition from a large section of the Liverpool supporter base, but never wilted or indeed gave in to that pressure. In the end through persistence they were toppled as their position at ;Liverpool became untenable.

Spirit of Shankley also went down the authporities routes but hit a brick wall, whilst organisations like supporters direct also offered no help or guidance during that period of time.

Since the departure of Hicks and Gillette, the Spirit of Shankley has become a supporters direct backed organisation, however had they gone down the government backed route originally then their hands would of been completely tied on what they could or could not do.

So in short their persistence outweighed the resistance and they had to do it alone as supporters or risk it being a lukewarm objection

The biggest thing that Liverpool fans had which we don't is that the media was pretty much behind them. Aww poor Liverpool fans, them nasty americans coming and ruining up their great and glorious club bla bla bla......we should all get behind them and help save them for the good of the world.

Rovers fans painted as the scum of the earth just for booing.

[K-Hod]

Didn't RBS essentially force out Hicks & Gillett? They had a lot of debt, the bank called it in, and when they couldn't provide funds NESV stepped in to pick up the pieces. I could be ignorant but what part of that process has anything to do with the fans? Did they put pressure on the bank? (genuine question btw, I don't know what happened).

Yes, I asked Dan Grabko if forcing a sale was a possibility with Rovers at the KGH meeting and he replied with the bit in bold.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

'' At the time of going to the press, Venky’s media manager had not reverted to our query.''

Same old!

[Glenn]

The biggest thing that Liverpool fans had which we don't is that the media was pretty much behind them. Aww poor Liverpool fans, them nasty americans coming and ruining up their great and glorious club bla bla bla......we should all get behind them and help save them for the good of the world.

Rovers fans painted as the scum of the earth just for booing.

We are now in a position to redress that a little. Kean had support in the industry and we got portrayed as bullies. Venky's have no support at all in Europe it seems (I've just being doing some sentiment analysis on the first 500 hits on google for "Venky's", only 5% has any positive sentiment for them and that's five press releases, you've got to start looks at brands like the EDL and Huntington Life Sciences to match that!)

The media are starting to turn on Venky's in a way they never dared with Kean.

[Stuart]

Bloody Hell, Glen, Pafell, Spark & Rev all agreeing on something. Whatever I was on last night I need to bottle it and sell it!

So, how many of you that thought that it was an idea that had merit actually went so far as to type "india rich list" or "bollywood agents" or even "Balaji Rao -blackburn" into google? Not many I imagine and that's the problem, whilst most people want to make a difference, few will do the leg work without being told what to do.

Sadly it reminds me a lot of this scene from life of Brian

You have something that doesn't need a group or a committee to organise you, just go off and do! It you want to tell others, great, if you want share useful links you've found then great, but the key is more doing, less discussing what should be done.

If you REALLY don't know where to start, this article mentions Bala is good friends with Raj Kundra (married to Shelpa Shetty) who currently seems to have a sponsorship deal for his Fight League project with Venkys. Took about 10 seconds to google that.

I think you oversimplify it somewhat.

If there is to be any period of sustained pressure, it either needs to be coordinated or to have two or three very determined individuals, with time on their hands, to take the initiative.

From my point of view, I don't see what the point of sending emails to a few random Indian business associates / peers of Venkys to say:

"I know I'm just one of the great unwashed and not actually one of your customers, or even your target market, but do you realise that your mates Venkys are making all of you Indian business folk look foolish (to me and possibly a lot of other football fans)? This is obviously going to cause you massive problems financially if you continue to be associated with them. So you should... er... shun them until they sell the club. Spread the word. Cheers."

Obviously now I'm oversimplifying but I really need to know what you are suggesting.

For me it's getting the letters written by (e.g.) the Rovers Trust (and the lack of reply) into the Indian media.

[Glenn]

To be fair Stuart, rephrase that into something more eloquent and it's actually a good start.

I believe somebody is working on a suggested template, but for me using it, unless you think your English is that bad, is a bad idea because people only need to receive a couple of identical ones and it stinks of slacktivism and people might as well start a facebook meme campaign.

What may be a viable alternative is for a few of the better worded ones to be posted on the internet and then people can politely explain that the think they've copied/linked to explains the situation far more eloquently than they could.

... and yes, I obviously have all the resource to set all this up myself and just enlist fan as a mindless army of drones to send the message out, but that's entirely not the point. As Gav rightly points out, fans inability to work together has been holding us back and that will never change, so here is something people can work on themselves.

[Stuart]

But if a bunch of English football fans think Indian businesspeople are all useless - because their experience is based on Venkys, would they be taken seriously? Or to put it another way, would it impact their business?

Would any of "Indian Company X"'s customers stop buying their product because of an association with Venkys? I'm not so sure.

They need to be embarrassed in their own media circles. But haven't we already been here? Venkys rode out the "storm" when Indian press starting getting in on the act.

In short Glenn, what does a better worded version of my email potentially achieve in your view?

[PAFELL]

But if a bunch of English football fans think Indian businesspeople are all useless - because their experience is based on Venkys, would they be taken seriously? Or to put it another way, would it impact their business?

Would any of "Indian Company X"'s customers stop buying their product because of an association with Venkys? I'm not so sure.

They need to be embarrassed in their own media circles. But haven't we already been here? Venkys rode out the "storm" when Indian press starting getting in on the act.

In short Glenn, what does a better worded version of my email potentially achieve in your view?

How would any of us feel if we received about, say 5000 letters from different folk telling us our best mates are crooks etc. You may dismiss the first few letters. But 1000's of them !!!!!!! Even more so if those letters were in the public domain. I think most of us would feel very uncomfortable. Especially if others then shun you for still associating with the person.

[Stuart]

How would any of us feel if we received about, say 5000 letters from different folk telling us our best mates are crooks etc. You may dismiss the first few letters. But 1000's of them !!!!!!! Even more so if those letters were in the public domain. I think most of us would feel very uncomfortable. Especially if others then shun you for still associating with the person.

You think we'll send 1000s of them?

[PAFELL]

You think we'll send 1000s of them?

Who knows - but be good if it happened.

[M-K]

You think we'll send 1000s of them?

Hire a botnet and spam the whole of India.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

If they don't care what the fans think, don't care if they lose money, don't care if we go plummeting down the leagues, don't care they ruined their brand in Europe in ways that made Ratner look like an amateur, don't care that the press have now turned on them and don't care they've been discussed in parliament in a negative way. What DO they are about?

Good post that Glenn but if 'image' is all they crave and care for then how the hell will any of the above (quite right too) help their cause?

Nothing they do makes sense,NOTHING!

[glen9mullan]

Was thinking earlier , SKY appear to get away Scott free with all this mess . After all it's their monopolisation of football which has turned football less of a spectator sport , and more of a rich mans toy .

Whilst sky continue to pump millions into the premier league and people continue to pay through the roof for their subscriptions , then the little voice which is supporters will always be ineffective .

Perhaps a campaign with other clubs should be targeting people like Sky who are funding the demise of English football , and even get their mates on to defend their role in it !

[West Yorks Rover]

Was thinking earlier , SKY appear to get away Scott free with all this mess . After all it's their monopolisation of football which has turned football less of a spectator sport , and more of a rich mans toy .

Whilst sky continue to pump millions into the premier league and people continue to pay through the roof for their subscriptions , then the little voice which is supporters will always be ineffective .

Perhaps a campaign with other clubs should be targeting people like Sky who are funding the demise of English football , and even get their mates on to defend their role in it !

Is Jason Cundy still on Sky ?

Apparently he gave Rovers fans a right going over on Talk Sport last night, said he hopes club gets relegated to non-league football

because of the way we treated Kean.

Did anyone hear it ?

[Stuart]

Is Jason Cundy still on Sky ?

Apparently he gave Rovers fans a right going over on Talk Sport last night, said he hopes club gets relegated to non-league football

because of the way we treated Kean.

Did anyone hear it ?

The fool is a Chelsea fan. He's probably trying to take the heat off the proper abuse his mates have given Rafa. Just because he had the dumb idea of bigging up Liverpool when he was their manager.

Anything that fool says about Rovers fans can be instantly disregarded.

[ABBEY]

he cant even finish sentances, he slags rovers off every oppurtunity.

[West Yorks Rover]

The fool is a Chelsea fan. He's probably trying to take the heat off the proper abuse his mates have given Rafa. Just because he had the dumb idea of bigging up Liverpool when he was their manager.

Anything that fool says about Rovers fans can be instantly disregarded.

Yes I realize all that, abused Rovers fans many times over Kean, wonder who his agent is ? he seems rather obsessed.

I must have watched his beloved Chelsea play Rovers live at least 20 times over the years ,they are amongst the most racist fans

in the country imo.

[Ewoodbhappy]

Was thinking earlier , SKY appear to get away Scott free with all this mess . After all it's their monopolisation of football which has turned football less of a spectator sport , and more of a rich mans toy .

Whilst sky continue to pump millions into the premier league and people continue to pay through the roof for their subscriptions , then the little voice which is supporters will always be ineffective .

Perhaps a campaign with other clubs should be targeting people like Sky who are funding the demise of English football , and even get their mates on to defend their role in it !

Definitely part of the bigger picture. We (fans of Rovers) will be accused of "sour grapes" for bringing it up.

It is though the biggest problem in football IMO. The balloon of football as a whole is being constantly inflated.

Sky TV are the only people who enjoy transfer deadline day. It's a self propelling tool they exploit to the maxx. Dumb arse managers buy into the hype, players believe the hype, agents spout & feed the hype.

Egotistical foreign business people want a piece of the hype.

Fans SUFFER the hype!

Joe average footballer gets paid top whack. The balloon continues to infate. Sky secure the TV rights again.

The balloon inflates again.

I'm waiting folks for the balloon to fecking burst on the vultures who have killed the people's sport.

Our club is a victim of the greed, incompetance & stupidity, of those who are feeding off the over inflated balloon.

BANG!

[chaddyrovers]

cant believe Glen is having a go at Sky and the money they have put in.

[West Yorks Rover]

Definitely part of the bigger picture. We (fans of Rovers) will be accused of "sour grapes" for bringing it up.

It is though the biggest problem in football IMO. The balloon of football as a whole is being constantly inflated.

Sky TV are the only people who enjoy transfer deadline day. It's a self propelling tool they exploit to the maxx. Dumb arse managers buy into the hype, players believe the hype, agents spout & feed the hype.

Egotistical foreign business people want a piece of the hype.

Fans SUFFER the hype!

Joe average footballer gets paid top whack. The balloon continues to infate. Sky secure the TV rights again.

The balloon inflates again.

I'm waiting folks for the balloon to fecking burst on the vultures who have killed the people's sport.

Our club is a victim of the greed, incompetance & stupidity, of those who are feeding off the over inflated balloon.

BANG!

I can't argue with any of that my friend you sum it all up very well, and the rich get richer, yet none of the footballing authorities give

a damn about ordinary fans, because they're all on the gravy train.

The Germans seem to have a much better and more inclusive approach to capitalism than we do in this country, I think its involves

fairness and yet they seem to do very well as a nation.

[Stuart]

cant believe Glen is having a go at Sky and the money they have put in.

Sky have destroyed football as a sport in this country.

The FA Cup and League Cup are dead and the England team have the smallest, weakest pool to pick from... ever. The Scottish team is made up of the tiniest pool of top division players that I can recall.

Four, possibly five, teams are championed and the rest are there to make up the numbers.

Two-thirds of the PL are playing 'survival/percentage football' in the hope of avoiding relegation and bringing in part-baked foreign players instead of blooding young British lads.

Football has been taken away from the masses, gift wrapped, sprayed with glitter paint, prawn-sandwich-scented, and wrapped in a subscription-based bow and handed to the MOR "yeah I like Manchester City... I mean United... I mean City" soccer fans.

I'd say Glen is spot on. Although, it has to be said, we weren't complaining much til Venkys arrived and squandered it all.

[chaddyrovers]

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