[Archived] Homophobic Banter

[Glenn]

After being contacted by a self-proclaimed "deskbound-activist" over this report that Rovers gained the second highest numbers of complaints for homophobic behaviour against B&HA fans. http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10329097.Brighton_and_Hove_Albion_fans_name_and_shame_homophobic_rivals/?ref=ms I thought it would make an interesting discussion here.

Now, a little researched showed in our case, the complaints were actually against CKR not the fans, but it lead to an interesting twitter debate on when "banter" becomes unacceptable. A lot of us grew up in times when racist banter was acceptable, now it's mostly unthinkable, but what about other types of banter. Where does stereotyping become damaging to fan, attendances and society as a whole. I know we got very upset at Burnleys "just a town full of pakis" a while back but we would ever to get offended by "in your northern slums" etc. Essentially can banter go too far, should sexuality be as taboo for banter as race has become and are we putting off fans attending.

As with the many race & religion debates we've had, this is a damn tricky subject to discuss without somebody stepping over the line, so please play nicely and use the report button if you feel somebody has stepped outside the guidelines.

[Andy]

Technically there is no difference between discriminating against someone for their race as for their sexuality.

Both are things you are born with and have no control over.

However, I think we do live in an age where it isn't as socially unacceptable to be against homosexuality, particularly in areas such as football where everyone is male and all masculine and everything.

I believe it will be addressed in time, as racism has been, but in the instance of the Brighton game, surely it's just a bit of banter between fans?

I don't believe (or don't want to believe) that anyone chanting about Brighton being a famous gay spot is homophobic.

There probably are a bigoted handful, as there are racists and sexists, but they are absolutely the minority in life, thankfully.

[arbitro]

For the idiots who perpetuate such infantile nonsense at football grounds it is usually in the name of 'having a laugh' with mates. And usually if the boot is on the other foot they resort to violence.

[Tom]

I think most people display some level of hypocrisy in these subjects, see I think homophobic chants are awful, the ones sang about Pedersen by our own fans are bang out of order yet for some reason I find the 'we can see you holding hands' chant quite funny

[Mike E]

If it's homophobic, it's not banter, it's idiocy.

[Stuart]

I think it depends on whether it's good natured banter between opposition fans (which stops at the full time whistle) or if it's genuine hateful abuse.

Sadly the law is not pragmatic in such things.

[Al]

If it's homophobic, it's not banter, it's idiocy.

Amusing how views change.

Not that long ago homosexuality was illegal.

Then it became permissable.

Now homophobia is idiocy.

How long before it becomes compulsory?

[DE.]

I cringe every time I heard the word "banter", reminds me of cockney wideboys.

But aside from that, there's a difference between straight-out abuse and light-hearted ribbing. It's very difficult to draw that line in a tribal environment like football, particularly as people are encouraged by current society to become outraged and offended at the smallest slight.

There are some times when the line is obviously crossed, and such cases should be dealt with swiftly and decisively. Other cases require a bit more common sense and tact.

[Dunnfc]

Football is a mans sport if you don't like it don't watch it. Simples.

My good lady hates the swearing so doesn't go or watch. How far are we going to go, are we going to ban swearing now?

I don't like Alan Carr's put on campness so i don't watch him it's the same thing. Now i don't mind the gays personally but i do mind the camp speak and the act they purposely put on like those kids who pretend to be coloured gangsters and have a non understanding of English grammer.

About time people toughen up in my opinion its football not tennis.

[Clitherover]

My guess is none/hardly any of those Brighton fans are gay. They know it's non pc area and are looking for a way to get other fans/players into trouble.

If single persons were being targeted then this would be a completely different kettle of fish and bang out of order but it isn't, its just everyday terrace banter, get over it Brighton fans.

[thenodrog]

About time people toughen up in my opinion its football not tennis.

It's life you mean and not football or tennis.

Just as the racism issue went into overdrive a generation ago and has suffered overkill so homophobia is going the same way. Homophobia is about queer bashing not about stereotyping, ostracising and ribbing etc.

Just as an aside am I the only person left who refers to homosexuals as homosexuals? The word 'Gay' is incorrect and has been hi-jacked for some reason which escapes me.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I know a gay couple who are season ticket holders at Brighton and apparently quite a few go to games.

I think the light-hearted stuff is fine..... "Stand up if you can't sit down", "Does you're boyfriend know you're here?", "We can see you holding hands", and "What's it like to s**k a c**k?"

Anything involving words such as "faggit" is unacceptable however and I'd class as homophobic abuse.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Football is a mans sport if you don't like it don't watch it. Simples.

My good lady hates the swearing so doesn't go or watch. How far are we going to go, are we going to ban swearing now?

I don't like Alan Carr's put on campness so i don't watch him it's the same thing. Now i don't mind the gays personally but i do mind the camp speak and the act they purposely put on like those kids who pretend to be coloured gangsters and have a non understanding of English grammer.

About time people toughen up in my opinion its football not tennis.

Women play football too.

Swearing is not the same as homophobia. One is foul language, the other is prejudice.

I suspect 'the gays' don't care for you much either. (BTW Alan Carr's dad is head scout at Newcastle. A real man's job).

You don't have an understanding of English grammar either.

It's life you mean and not football or tennis.

Just as the racism issue went into overdrive a generation ago and has suffered overkill so homophobia is going the same way. Homophobia is about queer bashing not about stereotyping, ostracising and ribbing etc.

Just as an aside am I the only person left who refers to homosexuals as homosexuals? The word 'Gay' is incorrect and has been hi-jacked for some reason which escapes me.

Can't help yourself can you? Pond life.

[Roverthechimp]

The problem is of course who should set the standard? The "catalogue" of homophobic abuse presented by the Brighton fans group (think it was on bbc website) would be judged mainly harmless by myself (holding hands etc) but obviously it is upsetting someone...

Likewise the "racist" abuse against Rio Ferdinand during the England game. If he was white and people were having a go would there be an issue? The issue in this case was that he wasn't there not his ethnicity.

Personally i get asked quite often "are you ill or english?" because of my skin tone by people in a culture that once decimated our society through rape and pillage. Am i calling on the authorities to sanction these people? Am i @#/?

[Dunnfc]

Women play football too. Quite rightly but its no affecting their game, i believe its affecting our game. But i still don't get your point, care to clarify it's a bit vague what your saying?

Swearing is not the same as homophobia. One is foul language, the other is prejudice. My question raised viable concerns over to were we are going to draw the line. Like it or not Paul but not everyone is a lover off homesexuals no matter how much children get brainwashed today to accept, the older generation will not. What is homophobia anyways? Calling someone a fudge is hardly offensive is it, be honest?

I suspect 'the gays' don't care for you much either. (BTW Alan Carr's dad is head scout at Newcastle. A real man's job). You said it not me, i never accused Alan of not having a proper job as you put it. In fact i accused Alan Carr of having put on a phoney voice and attitude of campness? Was he born like that no... so why put it on? By the looks of things you seem a bit against the homosexuals with your quote of a real job.

You don't have an understanding of English grammar either. Now that's just petty, yes you disagree with my opinion but please offer a concise and a clear argument next time, cheers.

Statistics :

Is anti-gay abuse directed at Albion fans just harmless banter - or should the culprits be tracked down and arrested?

Harmless banter:
51%

Offensive and should be stopped:
49%

[thenodrog]

I know a gay couple who are season ticket holders at Brighton and apparently quite a few go to games.

I think the light-hearted stuff is fine..... "Stand up if you can't sit down", "Does you're boyfriend know you're here?", "We can see you holding hands", and "What's it like to s**k a c**k?"

Anything involving words such as "faggit" is unacceptable however and I'd class as homophobic abuse.

A strange distinction Salgado....... I'm not sure why you think faggot is worse than the last one of those above.

Women play football too.

Swearing is not the same as homophobia. One is foul language, the other is prejudice.

I suspect 'the gays' don't care for you much either. (BTW Alan Carr's dad is head scout at Newcastle. A real man's job).

You don't have an understanding of English grammar either.

Can't help yourself can you? Pond life.

Wassup Macca.... could it be that it's getting a little cramped in your particular closet?

[perthblue02]

Just out of interest, were the most complaints another game that they thought they should have won easily?

From watching their messageboard's on the night of the game there was a few choice words directed at the "Northern Dirty @#/?s " etc when things weren't going their way , do they just expect teams to go down there, roll over and take it up the Jacksy? Imagine getting upset at our lilly livered lot who haven't got a tackle between them!

Unfortunately pandering to the whims of this lot when they don't get their own way , dilutes real problems associated with homophobia

[Salgado Is A Hero]

A strange distinction Salgado....... I'm not sure why you think faggot is worse than the last one of those above.

Because I found the other one amusing, as I imagined it being sang in a humorous manner. It's insinuating that they have performed fellatio on another man, just like the "stand up if you can't sit down" one is inferring they've taken it up the batty. So I don't see a distinction between those two, other than the bad language.

Whereas, "faggit/faggot", however it's spelled, is a derogatory word for homosexuals and therefore not acceptable, whatever the context.

"Town full of faggots" shouldn't be allowed. "Town full of poofters" or something wouldn't be as bad. In my opinion of course.

[broadsword]

I remember the crowd singing "Chelsea rent boy" to Le Saux, even though he's straight. Mind you, I can remember some fans in the crowd at Cambridge screaming at Dion Dublin that he was a chocolate drop, that was in 1992. Clearly, that's abuse, shouldn't be tolerated, and thankfully we have moved on from that.

There's a difference between humour and hostility. Some of those chants that reputedly came out at Brighton are just plain cringeworthy, with no humour intended. It's on a par with making hissing noises at Spurs and that sort of thing, it's all very boorish and pathetic, but passes for humour for a lot of people I guess.

If I find something humourous then I'm prepared to say so. Abuse doesn't constitute humour, and never will do.

EDITED: to remove ambiguity in what I was trying to express.

[Stuart]

I suspect 'the gays' don't care for you much either.

Yet their "dislike" is perfectly acceptable - the reason for the dislike is immaterial. It seems in this context, homosexuals are givers and not takers.

uote>

Ironic how prejudiced you are towards people who are different, Paul.

"Tolerance is for the ignorant; mutual understanding and respect is for the enlightened. One day everyone will be allowed to joke and laugh about their own, and each others', differences. Only then will we truly have equality."

Anyone know who said that?

[broadsword]

Yet their "dislike" is perfectly acceptable - the reason for the dislike is immaterial. It seems in this context, homosexuals are givers and not takers.

Oh stop it, you're making me laugh!

[Paul Mellelieu]

I don't use this word lightly, but most of you are actually stupid. Really stupid.

[Stuart]

I don't use this word lightly, but most of you are actually stupid. Really stupid.

I guess that means you've lost the argument then.

[K-Hod]

The word banter is so ridiculously over-used, and in inappropriate situations as well

I don't use this word lightly, but most of you are actually stupid. Really stupid.

What a brilliant contribution. Post of the year.....

[perthblue02]

Expecting a lot of complaint's about Leicester , those bullying brute's dared to take the lead at Brighton today and only let them equalise later and not win. Think they might leapfrog Rovers to the number 2 spot now.