[Archived] Investigate or we'll publish Blackburn Rovers findings, warns Mullan

[glen9mullan]

To put things in perspective , the football league made it quite clear in June 2012 that Rovers ain't their problem , that they have neither the will or finance to investigate an inherited problem . This was before they reviewed any evidence. The investigation into rovers is and will continue to be looked at by the FA .

So the article is nothing we didn't already know RE the football league.

Whilst none of the footballing authorities have had any evidence gathered since June 2012 . This stuff is still in our possession and will remain so until either presented in person , or we get around the red tape to make it it public

[TBTF]

To put things in perspective , the football league made it quite clear in June 2012 that Rovers ain't their problem , that they have neither the will or finance to investigate an inherited problem . This was before they reviewed any evidence. The investigation into rovers is and will continue to be looked at by the FA .

So the article is nothing we didn't already know RE the football league.

Whilst none of the footballing authorities have had any evidence gathered since June 2012 . This stuff is still in our possession and will remain so until either presented in person , or we get around the red tape to make it it public

Fair comment Glen.Stick with it fella because if you have something on them it has to come out at some point , somewhere and somehow.Ignore the doubters and have the courage of your convictions(if thats not a bad word to use)

[Majiball]

But if someone were poking her you would want to knock em out tho ?

Off course, but that wasn't the point.

To put things in perspective , the football league made it quite clear in June 2012 that Rovers ain't their problem , that they have neither the will or finance to investigate an inherited problem . This was before they reviewed any evidence. The investigation into rovers is and will continue to be looked at by the FA .

So the article is nothing we didn't already know RE the football league.

Whilst none of the footballing authorities have had any evidence gathered since June 2012 . This stuff is still in our possession and will remain so until either presented in person , or we get around the red tape to make it it public

how do you think the league would respond if more than one clubs fans lobbied them for change?

Can the info not come out elsewhere (wikileaks) with a reporter here to run it? I am concerned that if stuff doesn't start hitting the press soon we'll be past the point of no return for Rovers, I can't see us lasting beyond next season in a state that could get promoted?

[dave birch]

I am concerned that if stuff doesn't start hitting the press soon we'll be past the point of no return for Rovers, I can't see us lasting beyond next season in a state that could get promoted?

This is my point as well. if it's left too late then everything will be worthless.

[JBiz]

It's already too late

The most of the stuff in the dossier will be common knowledge now, maybe the odd new link to a business man like the Paul Stretford or Ray Ranson.

I hope I'm wrong, but Mark and glen seem to be playing this like a rank poker hand. Spent far to much bluffing, hoping the opposition crumble and fold first.

[Majiball]

This is my point as well. if it's left too late then everything will be worthless.

I've watched Plymouth disappear after the Japs came along and promised the world before delivering bugger all and sending the club into a nosedive. Others have followed and look where they are now and how hard the road back has been. Administration will be the death of Rovers despite removing the cancer we carry. Do all these 'protection' rules requested by Jack apply if we go into admin? I doubt it and we'll be back training in the local park and renting Ewood. Things need to start picking up pace if we are to get them out before this point is reached.

[dave birch]

It's already too late

The most of the stuff in the dossier will be common knowledge now, maybe the odd new link to a business man like the Paul Stretford or Ray Ranson.

I hope I'm wrong, but Mark and glen seem to be playing this like a rank poker hand. Spent far to much bluffing, hoping the opposition crumble and fold first.

I fully back BRAG. What they have done has been an enormous, thankless task, one that has come from the heart.

I don't think it is too late, if things happen now, it puts pressure on those "miscreants".

It's not BRAG that's doing the bluffing, it's those that have much to lose, but we have got to get this issue out and being discussed nationally (and internationally)

[tomphil]

Amazing how this makes it into the press on the day of the Fergie story. Just shows what were up against, mobs who have friends in every high place.

[Leonard Venkhater]

They've said quite a few times that one of the biggest hurdles is that numerous things have been said to them off the record by reliable sources, but it's a real trouble getting them to say the same things on the record due to NDAs etc.

So if BRAG go out and spill without those sources willing to go on record and back them, then they're putting themselves liable to lose a heck of a lot by being sued.

This is a perfectly plausible reason for holding it back until they can find stuff that's admissible.

But either they have been told various things by reliable sources unwilling to go on the record, or else they're just a bunch of clowns lying and having a laugh at the expense of fellow Rovers fans.

I know which one of those is more likely. Especially given the way the club has been run in the last few years.

Very well said, Sydney Rover ( Are you who I think you are?!). Human nature, unfortunately. Potential witnesses are likely to be highly anxious. It is all too common in investigations for witnesses to be unwilling to put their name to their disclosures. Most potential witnesses will be thinking "what will this mean for me?"

I assume BRAG will already have a plan B. Remember, we are all up against a culture of secrecy. If people are unwilling to go on record and /or BRAG are unable to deliver evidence to the required standard of proof, they will just have to settle for other ways of getting the truth out there..

BRAG, take your time and do what you need to do

Leonard Venkhater

[ChrisyG]

This is quite an interesting article. I've heard some of these people mentioned a few times in this thread.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-07/italian-aristocrat-s-fund-sues-after-soccer-investment-flops.html

[philipl]

Very interesting if that lot really have fallen out.

Adds further credence and a good reason for certain comings and goings in Puna recently.

[Leonard Venkhater]

For me, there is only one question that needs clarification, everything else follows on from it, and it is this:

Are the Venkys a brilliantly conceived (where every decision which impacts negatively on the club - which is, in fact, every decision they've apparently taken - can be, and is, put down to their ignorance and incompetence, but they can never be properly questioned anyway because they are thousands of miles away and generally inaccessible) "false front" for actual agent ownership (and I'm not talking of the names on the title deeds) or are they the "true decision-making owners" who put up their own money to buy the club for genuine reasons, but who have themselves subsequently lost out to decisions merely "advised" to them by agents, which would make them merely grossly incompetent, admittedly to a quite staggering, scarcely credible degree, but at least not part of a corrupt scheme.

That's what it all boils down to, does it not?

Is this the question to which we are about, ever so belatedly, to get an answer?

Awful, isn't it! It may be bit grassy knoll etc, but this is now my own working hypothesis.

In this scenario Venky's are merely part owners without the power to act.( Interesting language used by Madame Butterfly/Moth to Shaw...you people etc?), If heads don't roll after the Berg business, that could support the hypothesis?

Is the internal split between Shabby and the other two rather more sinister than a running conflict between employees of the same firm? Does it actually mirror the conflict between two owners?

If that is the case, I was completely wrong-footed by Shagnew and Shelfman being more local. Are they employed/sponsored/played by an agency?

OMG !That would make Shagnew a kind of poor man's Faust, who sold his Rovers soul for money and power.. I nearly said status, but he seems to be more despised than Shabby!

By the way,.I confess I was wrong to dismiss Shabby as mere circus practitioner. If the Third Reich had the poison dwarf, maybe Venky's have installed the poison clown.....Off to take some more medication!

[Guest Norbert]

Wait until the end of the season, then release it regardless. Our club is going to hell in a handcart whatever we do, so let's make it a supernova that eradicates the various scum with gamma radiation.

[RoverScot]

Kentaro going bust it seems. ITV chasing money from them too. I'm not sure if they will carry on being able to give football advice which is a shame for them because it has been profitable in the past with particular skills at helping to identify positive staff at a club being taken over.

'Financial results for the company’s U.K. subsidiary, Kentaro Ltd., carry a note from its auditor Rawlinson & Hunter saying there was “material uncertainty which may cast significant doubts about the group’s ability to continue as a going concern.”

Interesting. I hope this doesn't affect the current deals they have with SEM and the FA which are worth millions of pounds.

"Global Eleven’s player-investment business, which aimed to profit from betting on the increase in value for South American players, failed to make a profit from its investments, according to company documents obtained by Bloomberg."

Did/does Global Eleven own Mauro Formica? I remember at the time there were third party issues with him.

[Guest Norbert]

I'd think it would be some clever swindle to run off with the cash, but then I am cynical about football finance, and those involved.

If Kentaro is going bust, it seems to be a pattern with major marketing partners with FIFA. Perhaps certain types of stationary and briefcases are very expensive in Switzerland.

[RoverScot]

I don't think there has been any confirmation that the agreement Kentaro had with Venkys has ever been terminated. I wonder what will happen to this agreement if Kentaro disappear? SEM have a corporate partnership with Kentaro so perhaps they will pick up the agreed contract(if it still exists) though Jerome Anderson has worked for Venkys free before so perhaps he will carry on this fantastic service for free?

It really does get complicated when Kentaro have an agreement with Venkys, Global Eleven have a deal with Kentaro, SEM have an agreement with Kentaro, SEM works for free with Venkys, Venkys appoint inexperienced managers from the SEM group whilst advised by Kentaro and then the F.A. make TV deals with Kentaro.

[glen9mullan]

I don't think there has been any confirmation that the agreement Kentaro had with Venkys has ever been terminated. I wonder what will happen to this agreement if Kentaro disappear? SEM have a corporate partnership with Kentaro so perhaps they will pick up the agreed contract(if it still exists) though Jerome Anderson has worked for Venkys free before so perhaps he will carry on this fantastic service for free?

It really does get complicated when Kentaro have an agreement with Venkys, Global Eleven have a deal with Kentaro, SEM have an agreement with Kentaro, SEM works for free with Venkys, Venkys appoint inexperienced managers from the SEM group whilst advised by Kentaro and then the F.A. make TV deals with Kentaro.

Add to that the Non footballing business interest and the picture emerges .

Then look at our transfers , contracts and an even bigger one emerges

[John]

But the letter ended with the paragraph: Finally, our football secretary has, this morning, been instructed by SEM to issue a mandate to a third party without any reference or approval from the board. We are not familiar with the player concerned nor is he one that has been mentioned to us by the manager. Could you please, therefore, clarify the role of SEM in our transfer policy.

[Majiball]

could this and Kentaro going under be linked?

[Guest Norbert]

But the letter ended with the paragraph: Finally, our football secretary has, this morning, been instructed by SEM to issue a mandate to a third party without any reference or approval from the board. We are not familiar with the player concerned nor is he one that has been mentioned to us by the manager. Could you please, therefore, clarify the role of SEM in our transfer policy.

Which letter is this? The one John Williams and Tom Finn sent to the Raos before his sacking?

[Paul]

Yes

[philipl]

This certainly stinks doesn't it.

Kentaro rolling in it, mega global deals, super marketing pros, play Brazil in Qatar on the internet, yep Kentaro going tits up as their Italian pal (cough cough) launches legal action.... to recover what exactly. If the FA had balls they would be dissecting that Court case with forensic care which they might be doing for all I know.

Material uncertainty about what dear Mr Auditor?

Oh and the holders of the predecessor deals to Kentaro all went bust when the Havelange corruption broke.

Just seems they are getting on with the going broke first this time.

[BlueMonday]

Awful, isn't it! It may be bit grassy knoll etc, but this is now my own working hypothesis.

In this scenario Venky's are merely part owners without the power to act.( Interesting language used by Madame Butterfly/Moth to Shaw...you people etc?), If heads don't roll after the Berg business, that could support the hypothesis?

Is the internal split between Shabby and the other two rather more sinister than a running conflict between employees of the same firm? Does it actually mirror the conflict between two owners?

If that is the case, I was completely wrong-footed by Shagnew and Shelfman being more local. Are they employed/sponsored/played by an agency?

OMG !That would make Shagnew a kind of poor man's Faust, who sold his Rovers soul for money and power.. I nearly said status, but he seems to be more despised than Shabby!

By the way,.I confess I was wrong to dismiss Shabby as mere circus practitioner. If the Third Reich had the poison dwarf, maybe Venky's have installed the poison clown.....Off to take some more medication!

The highlighted explains a lot for me. It never made any sense for Venkys to have 2 warring factions running amok in their name.

[Mullionvagrant]

Lets run a highly unlikely scenario by:-

Suppose the club has x2 owners one represented by Venky's (Shebby) and one by an agency (Agnew/Shaw) as has been suggested by several people.

1) Berg was appointed by the Shaw camp. BUT was this done in the knowledge he wouldn't make it to gain maximum compensation for the shaw camp from the Venky's camp?

2) Did Berg receive all of his compensation or did some go elsewhere? Venky's were concerned about the apparent LARGE amount of compensation negotiated by Shaw-enough to investigate.

3) Appleton it has been suggested was removed by Shebby but again compensation?

I am just trying to get my head around several managers and a HUGE compensation package.

Thoughts......

[philipl]

Lets run by a highly unlikely scenario by:-

Suppose the club has x2 owners one represented by Venky's (Shebby) and one by an agency (Agnew/Shaw) as has been suggested by several people.

1) Berg was appointed by the Shaw camp. BUT was this done in the know he wouldn't make it to gain maximum compensation for the shaw camp from the Venky's camp?

2) Did Berg receive all of his compensation or did some go elsewhere? Venky's were concerned about the apparent LARGE amount of compensation negotiated by Shaw.

3) Appleton was removed by Shebby but again compensation?

I am just trying to get my head around several managers and a HUGE compensation package.

Thoughts......

Could be onto something (seriously I don't know in these instances) but you might extend the narrative backwards to other times and circumstances when inexplicably large numbers got paid out by Rovers for apparently little reason.