[Archived] Investigate or we'll publish Blackburn Rovers findings, warns Mullan

[1arC]

I actually think if the owners came out in the press and told us the truth about what happened with the plan on third party ownership and how they were victims, I think the fans may cut them a bit of slack. They would need to state what they were going to do with the club now they are effectively saddled with something that the didn't ever want to run, but then I think some headway would be made.

I may be slightly naive on this, but assuming people from within the club, do read this website, perhaps some feedback on this is required, form BRFCC members on this.

[imy9]

"whatever" ..bit low from you that one.

You say on the outside everything is not rosy however you and chaddy both back and applaud everything that happens .

Considering Parson has explained himself on dozens of ocassions I can see why he gets frustrated.

Show me a post where Parson has applauded anything. Granted he doesn't shout 'Venky's out' in every post but that hardly means he is a massive supporter of the regime!

[ABBEY]

to use parsons word" whatever"

[roverandout]

Can't help but be personal.

Not personal, its the truth

[Gav]

This is of course based upon the assumption that they are supporters of the football club and simply don't see it as a job that keeps a roof over their head and food on the table? Your post comes from the angle of a passionate supporter, not somebody who has a job in the minimum/living wage and may not even like football.

So you're not really talking about decision makers as such, but general staff.

Sorry i thought you may have been referring to the Rob Coars of this world Andy.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Cracking thread this. I'll hold my hand up and say that I knew very little of what was going on behind the scenes when Venky's took over, ie. the full extent of the intentions of Kentaro/SEM, as perhaps most people didn't.

Thanks for your original post on 30 June Glen, it made interesting reading, in fact it read more like a 'who done it?' mystery that even Miss Marple, Columbo, Chief Ironsides and Hercule Poirot wouldn't be able to solve.

The threats of and actual violence carried out by individuals on AG members are fascinating/terrible. Am I correct in thinking the violence was carried out by Rovers fans (über fans for the use of a better term - and two immediately spring to mind from the old days) or was it carried out by hire a mob types?

One major thing that has come out of this (and has been known for some time) is that there are any number of shady individuals quite willing to hang on the back of football's shirt tails to make a quick buck. They care not how they do it nor do they bother who they upset whilst doing so.

A final thing to consider is the Walker Trust. Surely, when assessing the capabilities of Venky's to run Blackburn Rovers as a going concern, from a financial perspective, they should have looked at accountant backed business plans. How liquid were some of their assets, how much had they planned to inject each season for new transfers, did they have a five year plan and so on?

Following on from the above, if what Glen earlier purports is true then, had the Walker Trust done their homework, they would have seen, amongst a host of other things, that there would have been no need for Venky's to provide money up front for player purchases as this was to be done by Kentaro/SEM. This should have set alarm bells ringing. Or did Anderson and Co simply appear on the scene once the purchase of BRFC had taken place? Or did the Walker Trust get Venky's to sign on the dotted line ASAP, happy to have got the monkey off their back?

[tomphil]

Whatever, Abbey, whatever. Just because I don't believe everything that happens at the club is part of a global conspiracy being hatched - excuse the pun - in India to destroy Blackburn Rovers isn't quite the same as believing that everything in the garden is rosy.

Doubt it was hatched to ruin the club on their part in India but it was hatched nevertheless and ruin the club it did. What more evidence do you want ?

[tomphil]

Cracking thread this. I'll hold my hand up and say that I knew very little of what was going on behind the scenes when Venky's took over, ie. the full extent of the intentions of Kentaro/SEM, as perhaps most people didn't.

Thanks for your original post on 30 June Glen, it made interesting reading, in fact it read more like a 'who done it?' mystery that even Miss Marple, Columbo, Chief Ironsides and Hercule Poirot wouldn't be able to solve.

The threats of and actual violence carried out by individuals on AG members are fascinating/terrible. Am I correct in thinking the violence was carried out by Rovers fans (über fans for the use of a better term - and two immediately spring to mind from the old days) or was it carried out by hire a mob types?

One major thing that has come out of this (and has been known for some time) is that there are any number of shady individuals quite willing to hang on the back of football's shirt tails to make a quick buck. They care not how they do it nor do they bother who they upset whilst doing so.

A final thing to consider is the Walker Trust. Surely, when assessing the capabilities of Venky's to run Blackburn Rovers as a going concern, from a financial perspective, they should have looked at accountant backed business plans. How liquid were some of their assets, how much had they planned to inject each season for new transfers, did they have a five year plan and so on?

Following on from the above, if what Glen earlier purports is true then, had the Walker Trust done their homework, they would have seen, amongst a host of other things, that there would have been no need for Venky's to provide money up front for player purchases as this was to be done by Kentaro/SEM. This should have set alarm bells ringing. Or did Anderson and Co simply appear on the scene once the purchase of BRFC had taken place? Or did the Walker Trust get Venky's to sign on the dotted line ASAP, happy to have got the monkey off their back?

The Walker Trust employed Anderson to find a buyer, which indicates they must have been getting desperate given his rep. He found one and put together a deal and they signed it off as well as paying him a million quid for his services. Not defending him at all but he got the job done he was employed to do and they quite happily went along with it. It's no wonder they've never commented although I don't think for one min they expected it to turn into the mess it did.

Even Nixon expressed bemusement at just why Venkys were after BRFC and just what their plans were so the trust MUST have had some inkling of suspicion. They just wanted rid at the end of the day though and there was probably brown envelopes flying in all directions to push it through.

[JHRover]

Cracking thread this. I'll hold my hand up and say that I knew very little of what was going on behind the scenes when Venky's took over, ie. the full extent of the intentions of Kentaro/SEM, as perhaps most people didn't.

Thanks for your original post on 30 June Glen, it made interesting reading, in fact it read more like a 'who done it?' mystery that even Miss Marple, Columbo, Chief Ironsides and Hercule Poirot wouldn't be able to solve.

The threats of and actual violence carried out by individuals on AG members are fascinating/terrible. Am I correct in thinking the violence was carried out by Rovers fans (über fans for the use of a better term - and two immediately spring to mind from the old days) or was it carried out by hire a mob types?

One major thing that has come out of this (and has been known for some time) is that there are any number of shady individuals quite willing to hang on the back of football's shirt tails to make a quick buck. They care not how they do it nor do they bother who they upset whilst doing so.

A final thing to consider is the Walker Trust. Surely, when assessing the capabilities of Venky's to run Blackburn Rovers as a going concern, from a financial perspective, they should have looked at accountant backed business plans. How liquid were some of their assets, how much had they planned to inject each season for new transfers, did they have a five year plan and so on?

Following on from the above, if what Glen earlier purports is true then, had the Walker Trust done their homework, they would have seen, amongst a host of other things, that there would have been no need for Venky's to provide money up front for player purchases as this was to be done by Kentaro/SEM. This should have set alarm bells ringing. Or did Anderson and Co simply appear on the scene once the purchase of BRFC had taken place? Or did the Walker Trust get Venky's to sign on the dotted line ASAP, happy to have got the monkey off their back?

In the last 4 years it has become quite clear that the Trust didn't and couldn't care less about Blackburn Rovers FC.

Any individual or group that was concerned about the clubs long term interests would have turned Venkys and their advisers away within minutes of speaking to them.

It frustrates me that some people to this day try to defend the Trust and convince themselves that the Trust were misled or duped into selling the club or that they simply 'couldn't have known' what Venkys had planned.

With all due respect that is nonsense. They were the only people in position to conduct a thorough analysis of Venkys and their plans for the club. They chose to overlook/ignore the finer details in exchange for a quick sale and £20 million quid. Lets remember they welcomed Ali Syed through the door and were considering doing a deal with him until he was exposed on national radio. Not to mention the elusive Mr Shah.

In doing that they betrayed this football club, its supporters and most importantly the man whose interests they were tasked with safeguarding.

To this day they haven't even felt it appropriate to make any kind of statement or apology for the state the club has ended up in, which either means they aren't bothered about it or they don't feel in any way responsible. Either way they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They come in at Number 1 on my list of guilty parties. Venkys, Kentaro, Kean, were all symptoms and offshoots of the situation created by the Trust. Leave the door open to these kind of people and they will come in. The Trust should have kept the door firmly shut.

[imy9]

to use parsons word" whatever"

Contributed more here than most threads to be fair #justsaying

[Parsonblue]

Doubt it was hatched to ruin the club on their part in India but it was hatched nevertheless and ruin the club it did. What more evidence do you want ?

Basically, all I've seen is plans to bring in young players, develop them and then sell them for profit. This is something we have done successfully throughout my fifty odd years of following the club. Buy cheap and sell dear has been the hallmark of this club and allowed it to prosper. Unfortunately, those who have been operating the system over the past few years simply haven't been as good at it as those in the past and, of course, there weren't the dreaded agents in the past.

[yoda]

In the last 4 years it has become quite clear that the Trust didn't and couldn't care less about Blackburn Rovers FC.

Any individual or group that was concerned about the clubs long term interests would have turned Venkys and their advisers away within minutes of speaking to them.

It frustrates me that some people to this day try to defend the Trust and convince themselves that the Trust were misled or duped into selling the club or that they simply 'couldn't have known' what Venkys had planned.

With all due respect that is nonsense. They were the only people in position to conduct a thorough analysis of Venkys and their plans for the club. They chose to overlook/ignore the finer details in exchange for a quick sale and £20 million quid. Lets remember they welcomed Ali Syed through the door and were considering doing a deal with him until he was exposed on national radio. Not to mention the elusive Mr Shah.

In doing that they betrayed this football club, its supporters and most importantly the man whose interests they were tasked with safeguarding.

To this day they haven't even felt it appropriate to make any kind of statement or apology for the state the club has ended up in, which either means they aren't bothered about it or they don't feel in any way responsible. Either way they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They come in at Number 1 on my list of guilty parties. Venkys, Kentaro, Kean, were all symptoms and offshoots of the situation created by the Trust. Leave the door open to these kind of people and they will come in. The Trust should have kept the door firmly shut.

If the Trust came out and said, yep we got it wrong, what then ? you don't think the trust would help out financially do you ?

We still have the Venky's as owners,

Who employ Shaw, Myers and Cheston to run the club.

The club needs Venky's money,

Do we need 3 directors that don't have the club at heart.

I hope there is some truth in the rumour that the Venky's are hoping to sue the dark lord and friends for misrepresentation.

[rebelmswar]

I hope there is some truth in the rumour that the Venky's are hoping to sue the dark lord and friends for misrepresentation.

Karl Rove?

I was planning on a book called "Show Us on the Doll Where Karl Rove Touched You"

I agree that we should try and live with this horror show for as long as is required - bought by someone who may give a toss. I may die before then.

[onlyonejackwalker]

In the last 4 years it has become quite clear that the Trust didn't and couldn't care less about Blackburn Rovers FC.

Any individual or group that was concerned about the clubs long term interests would have turned Venkys and their advisers away within minutes of speaking to them.

It frustrates me that some people to this day try to defend the Trust and convince themselves that the Trust were misled or duped into selling the club or that they simply 'couldn't have known' what Venkys had planned.

With all due respect that is nonsense. They were the only people in position to conduct a thorough analysis of Venkys and their plans for the club. They chose to overlook/ignore the finer details in exchange for a quick sale and £20 million quid. Lets remember they welcomed Ali Syed through the door and were considering doing a deal with him until he was exposed on national radio. Not to mention the elusive Mr Shah.

In doing that they betrayed this football club, its supporters and most importantly the man whose interests they were tasked with safeguarding.

To this day they haven't even felt it appropriate to make any kind of statement or apology for the state the club has ended up in, which either means they aren't bothered about it or they don't feel in any way responsible. Either way they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They come in at Number 1 on my list of guilty parties. Venkys, Kentaro, Kean, were all symptoms and offshoots of the situation created by the Trust. Leave the door open to these kind of people and they will come in. The Trust should have kept the door firmly shut.

There is no test available that guarantees quality decision making and good results from new owners of football clubs. Even if they say all the right things and have been hugely successful in other industries. Most get their pants well and truly pulled down.

The only question that matters is have you got the cash? The rest then unfolds accordingly as they blunder around getting ripped off. The Trust wanted to sell desperately. They weren't going to find reasons not to. For all the Trust new, the Venky model may have been successful anyway.

I'd argue The Trust weren't the brightest buttons around. Keep the club. Don't sell. Don't change anything. Keep Allardyce at all costs. Stay mid- table in the PL. Lose 3 million a year for three more years. 9 million. Then go and buy a new Roller when the extra 50 million kicks in from the TV deal and your making 47 million pure coin each year with exactly the same business model and operating expenses. Enjoy that for a year or two but don't get greedy as nothing lasts forever. Sell cheaply at around 100 million after showing 40+ million profit in your books year on year. We had the almost perfect business model already in place for this club. Credit to Williams and co. Not sure why the Trust were panicking. We had proven quality in a number of positions and could easily recoup three million at anytime.

[den]

Basically, all I've seen is plans to bring in young players, develop them and then sell them for profit. This is something we have done successfully throughout my fifty odd years of following the club. Buy cheap and sell dear has been the hallmark of this club and allowed it to prosper. Unfortunately, those who have been operating the system over the past few years simply haven't been as good at it as those in the past and, of course, there weren't the dreaded agents in the past.

Not true Parson. Throughout all my years the manager has been judged entirely on results. Yes, rovers brought through younger players and sold them on, just as every other professional club does. However, I don't remember ANY other manager at the club being judged not on results, but by how much money they can rake in. Was Kean judged on results? Is Bowyer being judged on results?

[yoda]

Karl Rove?

I was planning on a book called "Show Us on the Doll Where Karl Rove Touched You"

I agree that we should try and live with this horror show for as long as is required - bought by someone who may give a toss. I may die before then.

I like his quote about Obama

You may be right that people say: 'You know what, we had Obama. He was inexperienced. The guy had great rhetoric, sounded good, looked good, but has turned out to be an utter disaster. I want someone where I have confidence and credibility that they're up to the job and that I can trust what they tell me.'

It kind off reminds me of someone

[Stuart]

I've never disguised the fact that I would back any manager for a period of four years or so to make changes unless we were threatened with relegation. Personally, I was more than happy with the appointment of Eric at the Academy and I think getting £3 to £4 million for Cairney is a good move. Nobody knows what the future holds. We may very well go under if Venkys stay and we might just as easily go under if Venkys leave. The only thing I'm sure of is that if and when Venkys go they will need to find a buyer with very deep pockets to support the present infra structure at the club.

This number goes up with every year that Bowyer is in charge. Forget rolling 12 month contracts, he seems to have a rolling two years of grace in front of him.

It's actually got to the point where it's just funny!

[Gav]

In the last 4 years it has become quite clear that the Trust didn't and couldn't care less about Blackburn Rovers FC.

Any individual or group that was concerned about the clubs long term interests would have turned Venkys and their advisers away within minutes of speaking to them.

It frustrates me that some people to this day try to defend the Trust and convince themselves that the Trust were misled or duped into selling the club or that they simply 'couldn't have known' what Venkys had planned.

With all due respect that is nonsense. They were the only people in position to conduct a thorough analysis of Venkys and their plans for the club. They chose to overlook/ignore the finer details in exchange for a quick sale and £20 million quid. Lets remember they welcomed Ali Syed through the door and were considering doing a deal with him until he was exposed on national radio. Not to mention the elusive Mr Shah.

In doing that they betrayed this football club, its supporters and most importantly the man whose interests they were tasked with safeguarding.

To this day they haven't even felt it appropriate to make any kind of statement or apology for the state the club has ended up in, which either means they aren't bothered about it or they don't feel in any way responsible. Either way they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

They come in at Number 1 on my list of guilty parties. Venkys, Kentaro, Kean, were all symptoms and offshoots of the situation created by the Trust. Leave the door open to these kind of people and they will come in. The Trust should have kept the door firmly shut.

With respect that's absolute bunkum.

The trust were given a mandate to sell the football club. The interested parties had to fulfil certain requirements as set out in Jacks will and the premier league, Venkys passed all those requirements and therefore took control of the football club, simple as that.

The other interested parties didn't fulfil those requirements so never took over.

An estate agents sells your house, they're not interested if the buyers have a deep desire to start a religious cult that might upset your neighbours and neither are you, you want a sale, job done.

The trust did what they'd been instructed to do and I for 1 have no issues with them whatsoever.

[ABBEY]

Contributed more here than most threads to be fair #justsaying

just like you never contribute by attending games #justsaying.

[Mattyblue]

Not true Parson. Throughout all my years the manager has been judged entirely on results. Yes, rovers brought through younger players and sold them on, just as every other professional club does. However, I don't remember ANY other manager at the club being judged not on results, but by how much money they can rake in. Was Kean judged on results? Is Bowyer being judged on results?

Parson's view is that we are just currently on one of the downtrends that follows the good times for a club of our stature. The Cycle if you will. Nowt we can do about it. Great times in the 50s and early 60s followed by not paying the leccy bill and training on dog s*** at Pleasington. 26 years and all that.

However, the last 25 years has been based on employing the best possible administrators and the best possible managers to get the very best team on the pitch within budget constraints.

In a way we were lucky, we got ourselves re-established in the Prem post Jack before the money in the league became astronomical, it meant that we had a strong base and just tweaked the squad year on year. Having quality like Williams, Finn, Hughes and Allardyce in situ meant the millions just kept rolling in.

Southampton seem to be a modern day Rovers, a 'trading club' as John Williams put it.

We obviously do not have the best people possible in key positions any more and in the club's present state selling the few players of quality without adequate replacements just leads to diminishing returns, as we will buy lower and sell slightly higher and then lower and lower until a squad of complete dross remains.

Parson's point that we just have poorer people doing the selling ain't wrong, but poor quality people selling poorer quality players at a debt ridden embargoed club means we can't expect the 'cycle' to upturn anytime soon.

[Stuart]

Parson's view is that we are just currently on one of the downtrends that follows the good times for a club of our stature. The Cycle if you will. Nowt we can do about it. Great times in the 50s and early 60s followed by not paying the leccy bill and training on dog s*** at Pleasington. 26 years and all that.

However, the last 25 years has been based on employing the best possible administrators and the best possible managers to get the very best team on the pitch within budget constraints.

In a way we were lucky, we got ourselves re-established in the Prem post Jack before the money in the league became astronomical, it meant that we had a strong base and just tweaked the squad year on year. Having quality like Williams, Finn, Hughes and Allardyce in situ meant the millions just kept rolling in.

Southampton seem to be a modern day Rovers, a 'trading club' as John Williams put it.

We obviously do not have the best people possible in key positions any more and in the club's present state selling the few players of quality without adequate replacements just leads to diminishing returns, as we will buy lower and sell slightly higher and then lower and lower until a squad of complete dross remains.

Parson's point that we just have poorer people doing the selling ain't wrong, but poor quality people selling poorer quality players at a debt ridden embargoed club means we can't expect the 'cycle' to upturn anytime soon.

This is what really grates. Jack didn't buy the league, he bought us our place back at the top table - where we started. He did enough in my view to give us a platform to stay there. It would have required bringing through a Jones or a Duff or bringing in a Bentley or to a lesser extent a Santa Cruz (we got lucky with that one) and could and should have made a killing on McCarthy: all of which were before Venkys arrived, of course, but they took that from us, then froze, then left the club to its own devices.

It is in their power to go out and secure the services of a decent chairman and manager and let them get on running the club. Instead they would rather employ people without experience and who will not dare challenge them. It's a template that has proliferated down to the playing staff. Nobody with any experience or gravitas who can challenge or undermine the manager. Just be glad you've got a job/contract.

Yet we are supposed to put our faith in those who so carelessly treated our PL position when they are showing no signs of trying to change it.

[den]

Parson's view is that we are just currently on one of the downtrends that follows the good times for a club of our stature. The Cycle if you will. Nowt we can do about it. Great times in the 50s and early 60s followed by not paying the leccy bill and training on dog s*** at Pleasington. 26 years and all that.

However, the last 25 years has been based on employing the best possible administrators and the best possible managers to get the very best team on the pitch within budget constraints.

In a way we were lucky, we got ourselves re-established in the Prem post Jack before the money in the league became astronomical, it meant that we had a strong base and just tweaked the squad year on year. Having quality like Williams, Finn, Hughes and Allardyce in situ meant the millions just kept rolling in.

Southampton seem to be a modern day Rovers, a 'trading club' as John Williams put it.

We obviously do not have the best people possible in key positions any more and in the club's present state selling the few players of quality without adequate replacements just leads to diminishing returns, as we will buy lower and sell slightly higher and then lower and lower until a squad of complete dross remains.

Parson's point that we just have poorer people doing the selling ain't wrong, but poor quality people selling poorer quality players at a debt ridden embargoed club means we can't expect the 'cycle' to upturn anytime soon.

I think Parson knows deep down that the club IS being run very badly. He knows that the current managerial set up is so weak that the possibility of long term success is highly unlikely. Parson comes across as the kind of person who simply won't criticise anything to do with the club (nothing really wrong with that. In fact, it's in some ways, admirable). I used to be the same. However, it's no good kidding yourself. There's nothing at all wrong in being honest about how you see things.

I wonder if he'll admit to that?

[yoda]

This is what really grates. Jack didn't buy the league, he bought us our place back at the top table - where we started. He did enough in my view to give us a platform to stay there. It would have required bringing through a Jones or a Duff or bringing in a Bentley or to a lesser extent a Santa Cruz (we got lucky with that one) and could and should have made a killing on McCarthy: all of which were before Venkys arrived, of course, but they took that from us, then froze, then left the club to its own devices.

It is in their power to go out and secure the services of a decent chairman and manager and let them get on running the club. Instead they would rather employ people without experience and who will not dare challenge them. It's a template that has proliferated down to the playing staff. Nobody with any experience or gravitas who can challenge or undermine the manager. Just be glad you've got a job/contract.

Yet we are supposed to put our faith in those who so carelessly treated our PL position when they are showing no signs of trying to change it.

Great post

[imy9]

just like you never contribute by attending games #justsaying.

Ouch Abs touched a little nerve there. Here's a original thought for you, why not respond to my quote rather than the man (you seem to do this a fair bit don't you).

Also how would you know how many games I attended?

"Empty vessels make the most noise"

[ABBEY]

Ouch Abs touched a little nerve there. Here's a original thought for you, why not respond to my quote rather than the man (you seem to do this a fair bit don't you).

Also how would you know how many games I attended?

"Empty vessels make the most noise"

Go on how many games have you been to in the last 30 years ...lets have a pound a game wager.

who the fk are you calling an empty vessel ?

I may not have A levels or degrees but even I know it should be AN ORIGINAL and not A.

jog on