[Archived] Lancashire United-Pros and Cons

[Paul]

I've never understood the argument for forming Lancashire United as a resolution to our problems. If I want to "watch" football I can turn in the telly, go to a pub or pick any random game, however if I want to "support" a team I have to go to Ewood.

Lancs United is the destruction if our club and not its salvation.

[Stuart]

People are still playing the 'short game' on this one and ignoring posts that have answered their questions. However it's good to see there are some people open minded enough to offer constructive feedback.

We are talking about a dwindling market where Rovers crowds are disappearing and will do so further if we are relegated again. The number of people who will return 'when Venkys' leave grows but the reality is we are heading for very low gates. Now it's fine if the remaining fans want to steadfastly stick to the way things are but I would suggest you/we are in a minority - not because the majority are pro-Lancs, but because they are simply bailing out. Can Blackburn Rovers survive with a sub-5000 home gate, with the infrastructure (Ewood/Brockhall) and player wages/pay-offs?

So if Blackburn Newco is formed, will that be the same as supporting Blackburn Rovers? Maybe, if we can afford to continue to play at Ewood. If not, we may end up ground sharing with Stanley or Chorley or Darwen United. All 3 out of town anyway. To keep it local then we are looking at park pitches.

So the first decision point is, post-newco, do we continue as a Blackburn-centric team in the bottom leagues, playing out of town, and try to rebuild a club - over the generations - which will ultimately lead is back to being a mid-table league one team? If the answer to that is yes then that's what we should do. There's no shame in accepting a town club in leagues one and two - plenty are already there. However, please don't pressurise the Rovers Trust into over-extending and aiming for anything higher if/when they take over running the club. You will have to put your money where your mouth is, spending thousands to keep us there.

The second (or really the proper first) decision point is for those who feel this car crash is still avoidable and could work with other local clubs to find a way to merge, and create the possibility of an MK Dons style re-launch as Lancashire County (I still hate the term United). At this point I would look towards Dave Whelan to avoid happening to his club what happened to us. Apart from going against the tribal mentality of town-centric fans, and his own sense of loyalty to history, there is more in it for him than saving Rovers, but he would also have to deal with Oyston and Shagnew. But the alternative means taking his chances. Maybe the Sky money will eventually run out (it has to, doesn't it?) or a wage cap comes in, and there will suddenly be a lot more competitive teams around. Rovers have been hoping this would happen for a while but it looks like we will miss the cut.

On a side note, we are practically run by PNE these days anyway so it's not a massive leap. Perhaps our demise is being orchestrated to make us a lower league club than Preston and give then the potential for a hostile takeover anyway. I jest of course - at least I hope I do!

[JAL]

What a ridiculous idea Lancs Utd maybe this is the biggest indicator yet, that football is contracting in this area.

One hundred and thirty years of history binned.

Down with Lancs United.

Free Blackburn !

[Stuart]

I've never understood the argument for forming Lancashire United as a resolution to our problems. If I want to "watch" football I can turn in the telly, go to a pub or pick any random game, however if I want to "support" a team I have to go to Ewood.

Lancs United is the destruction if our club and not its salvation.

Paul, you have talked about walking away several times over the course of the last two seasons. Thankfully you haven't - yet - and all credit to you for that but it is 'blue-and-white flight' which is destroying the club (as well as Venkys) not Lancs County.

A county club is either a Phoenix club with a wider catchment area and greater ability to adopt loyal fans, or a pre-emptive move which might avoid a lot of wasted money and loss of yet more football fans.

Sometimes what we want and what's good for us are not the same thing - and we have to just take our medicine.

Saying that striving to keep a lower league club running is a very noble venture and I've a lot of time and respect for Rob Heys in particular. It's just that us Lancastrians are capable of so much more than aiming for mediocrity. Jack taught me that.

What a ridiculous idea Lancs Utd maybe this is the biggest indicator yet, that football is contracting in this area.

One hundred and thirty years of history binned.

Down with Lancs United.

Free Blackburn !

Agree with all of that.

[Ewood Spark]

it is the least of our problems but...

Time to remind everyone of the flavour of idiocy we are dealing with here

[Stuart]

Time to remind everyone of the flavour of idiocy we are dealing with here

you just have!

[Ewood Spark]

it is the least of our problems but...

Ah ... new page ... need to bump this.

By the way Stu ... what colour socks and shorts do you propose?

[thenodrog]

Lancashire United?, red shirt?

You might as well just stick a red devil on the badge and have done with it.

You are allowed to make a suggestion for colours clitheroerover. It is an open forum. However if you have nothing constructive to say then stay away off. Too many like you offering nothing but infantile criticism around here.

[cn174]

The second (or really the proper first) decision point is for those who feel this car crash is still avoidable and could work with other local clubs to find a way to merge, and create the possibility of an MK Dons style re-launch as Lancashire County (I still hate the term United). At this point I would look towards Dave Whelan to avoid happening to his club what happened to us. Apart from going against the tribal mentality of town-centric fans, and his own sense of loyalty to history, there is more in it for him than saving Rovers, but he would also have to deal with Oyston and Shagnew. But the alternative means taking his chances. Maybe the Sky money will eventually run out (it has to, doesn't it?) or a wage cap comes in, and there will suddenly be a lot more competitive teams around. Rovers have been hoping this would happen for a while but it looks like we will miss the cut.

Its not just about Rovers though is it. Just because we're going @#/? and bust the other teams aren't (currently). So how do you go about persuading PNE, Burnley and Blackpool (and Wigan now?!) to all cease their existence cos we want to create another team that might in the long run be better.

As for whelan, why on earth would he want to be part of it? He's looking to get out of Wigan right now, they are his baby just like Rovers were Jack Walkers baby. I very much doubt he'd start to pour money into a new team, he's a tight fisted sod and wouldn't give a penny to anyone (apart from Latics) unless it is for his financial benefit.

[thenodrog]

I tried to offer a constructive opinion to the Lancashire United idea - because it wasn't the response you wanted doesn't mean you should take the hump. Have you floated the idea on the MB's of other clubs? I'm pretty sure the response would be similar to that on here.

You don't (well shouldn't) support a team because its successful, you should support it because you have an affinity with it. You seem to put the later before the former so I'm sure there are a couple of clubs in the old Lancashire/new Manchester who could satisfy your craving for success.

So by wanting a combined Lancashire team I am really a closet Manc? How tf does that work? I must say this is fast becoming the default position for the intellectual derelicts around here.

So this is where the surrender monkeys come to chat while the fans are on the road SUPPORTING THEIR CLUB. Note to admin .... can you ban these clowns from peddling their anti Blackburn Rovers propaganda. Note to the surrender monkeys ... get off our board ... you will NEVER kill Blackburn Rovers FC.

You've quite perked up after your exile I see ES. Whatever admin think it seems Quizlings are quite welcome.

A reformed Blackburn Rovers of a similar name such as AFC Blackburn would be the only thing I'd be willing to support if Rovers went into liquidation. The club would have to have Blackburn in the name and play their football in Blackburn with at least some sort of tie to the old club.

Lancashire United would be out of the question for me and judging by most people's opinions on here it wouldn't be a success anyway.

JHC! You don't even live in Blackburn!!!

[Ewood Spark]

So by wanting a combined Lancashire team I am really a closet Manc? How tf does that work? I must say this is fast becoming the default position for the intellectual derelicts around here.

You've quite perked up after your exile I see ES. Whatever admin think it seems Quizlings are quite welcome.

JHC! You don't even live in Blackburn!!!

What are you doing back here? Things a bit quite on the Wlanky Utd board today?

[ABBEY]

This is how I'd watch football should Rovers go under with no phoenix club floated, however I'd probably opt for Darwen rather than Clitheroe

I'd pack it in all together and go to Denver once a season.

[Clitherover]

JHC! You don't even live in Blackburn!!!

Nope, I was born there though, and have family ties to the town.

What are you hinting at now theno, that Rovers fans have to specifically live in Blackburn?

[Claytons Left Boot]

You've quite perked up after your exile I see ES. Whatever admin think it seems Quizlings are quite welcome.

Oh the irony There's only one quisling (with an s, not a z) around here and it's you! Getting in bed with the enemy and all that.

[Stuart]

Ah ... new page ... need to bump this.

By the way Stu ... what colour socks and shorts do you propose?

White shorts, white socks.

[Stuart]

Its not just about Rovers though is it. Just because we're going @#/? and bust the other teams aren't (currently). So how do you go about persuading PNE, Burnley and Blackpool (and Wigan now?!) to all cease their existence cos we want to create another team that might in the long run be better.

As for whelan, why on earth would he want to be part of it? He's looking to get out of Wigan right now, they are his baby just like Rovers were Jack Walkers baby. I very much doubt he'd start to pour money into a new team, he's a tight fisted sod and wouldn't give a penny to anyone (apart from Latics) unless it is for his financial benefit.

First of all, thanks for at least having considered the point, Clare.

Whelan would only need to do the convincing. The plan would have to be self-financing. A 'washing its own face' model. (That really is the point of the exercise).

It wouldn't be easy to get things kicked off but let's face it none of the clubs you mention really have a pot to @#/? in. Even Wigan, without the owners money would sink like a stone much like us but they are even less of a football town.

FFP is a big driver for all this thinking. If another Jack was possible/allowed then I'm all for sticking with a Blackburn only team - as I'm sure would the rest. It is that dream of competing at the highest level that paid, professional football is all about, and without one or two rich fans pumping their own money in we have no chance. If it's not about success and competing, and is just for the sport or the local pride, then we may as well just give our money to local amateur and junior sides - goodness knows they need it. Certainly more than the likes of Danny Murphy and co.

The idea of a merged Lancashire club is a necessary evil, based on FFP and the diminishing fan base, not a perfect solution.

[Batman.]

You are allowed to make a suggestion for colours clitheroerover. It is an open forum. However if you have nothing constructive to say then stay away off. Too many like you offering nothing but infantile criticism around here.

To be honest, I can't believe somebody has given you the ego massage of opening this thread, as of all the self indulgent crap that you post on here, the Lancashire United is the least viable. I'd be less surprised to see Jurassic Park open. The reason why? It's very simple, and I'm sure a man of great intellect like yourself will be able to understand it:

1. We don't want it to happen.

2. Burnley don't want it to happen.

3. Blackpool don't want it to happen.

4. Preston don't want it to happen.

5. Fleetwood don't want it to happen.

There. All your fantasy nonsense about Skyscraper stadiums and one million season ticket holders, red shirts and endless success end there. As Claire stated, MK Dons is living proof. There is no argument for you in order to counteract that, as there is a living proof that such schemes are unpopular, and frankly, unsuccessful.

However, please continue to post embarrassing nonsense like "I just want their to be a team left for my kids to support," as for me personally, knowing your messageboard 'persona,' find it greatly amusing seeing you spout such @#/?.

[Exiled in Toronto]

People are still playing the 'short game' on this one and ignoring posts that have answered their questions.

As opposed to ignoring posts that asked specific questions!

Without you offering any specifics as to how/when/where/why it could come about and be a reality, it's just a magic wand fantasy rather than the "long game".

[Batman.]

Oh and Stuart, your role as Little John to Gordon's Robin Hood is fantastic, and if I was creating amusing situations to ridicule, it's exactly what I would have done.

[Ewood Spark]

Oh the irony There's only one quisling (with an s, not a z) around here and it's you! Getting in bed with the enemy and all that.

I think you'll find there are two

[JBiz]

Without going into much detail;

This is the worst idea I have ever heard. Firstly, Lancashire United is a crap bus service, and secondly i'd rather give up on football altogether than give up on Rovers.

Times are hard, but Blackburn Rovers amalgamated with the other lancashire clubs would be ridiculous. I agree in certain situations like the 2 dundee clubs - but break up the founding member teams to create a lancashire newco?

There are just so many different cons - without bringing emotional and regional connection into it; Shocking name, Who's stadium and where? Who owns it?, Who funds it?, Who's training ground gets knocked down?, Who's academy closes? etc etc

Id rather watch Rovers vs Chester in front of 3000 fans ever week.

[Batman.]

Without going into much detail;

This is the worst idea I have ever heard. Firstly, Lancashire United is a crap bus service, and secondly i'd rather give up on football altogether than give up on Rovers.

Times are hard, but Blackburn Rovers amalgamated with the other lancashire clubs would be ridiculous. I agree in certain situations like the 2 dundee clubs - but break up the founding member teams to create a lancashire newco?

There are just so many different cons - without bringing emotional and regional connection into it; Shocking name, Who's stadium and where? Who owns it?, Who funds it?, Who's training ground gets knocked down?, Who's academy closes? etc etc

Id rather watch Rovers vs Chester in front of 3000 fans ever week.

Think about your kids though, I mean, is that what they'll want? Saying that, perhaps if they are that desperate to support a team in Red, called United, who are successful, they might be able to find one within spitting distance.

[Stuart]

As opposed to ignoring posts that asked specific questions!

Without you offering any specifics as to how/when/where/why it could come about and be a reality, it's just a magic wand fantasy rather than the "long game".

I'm pretty sure I covered your points in my posts. I didn't ignore it certainly.

As for Shilito, there's no point even trying to enter into a proper discussion about anything with you.

You're "only here for the laughs".

[Batman.]

I'm pretty sure I covered your points in my posts. I didn't ignore it certainly.

As for Shilito, there's no point even trying to enter into a proper discussion about anything with you.

You're "only here for the laughs".

What are you here for exactly? As I'm sure you've seen over the years, I'm more than happy to spend a few minutes of my day contributing to a half decent discussion, something that has become much harder over the last decade around here. Lancashire football is thriving- I can remember when PNE, Blackpool, Burnley et al were pissing around at the bottom of the old second division, and they've all flirted with or spend time in the top division recently. Accy Stanley used to be the butt of all football jokes when I was at school, and now they're an established Football League team again. I remember when Morcombe was all about the fish, and even they're established in the Football League. I remember when Fleetwood was all about fights and the 24/7 Asda; they could be in the third tier of English Football next season.

Not every club is a big city team. They're are NO county teams in English Football, and never has been. There never will be. Should all the London teams just say 'sod it, let join together and see if we can beat one of the Manchester teams?' No, it's an absurd idea. And the Lancashire United one is just as absurd. If nobody in town eats fish, don't open a chippy.

[Stuart]

What are you here for exactly? As I'm sure you've seen over the years, I'm more than happy to spend a few minutes of my day contributing to a half decent discussion, something that has become much harder over the last decade around here. Lancashire football is thriving- I can remember when PNE, Blackpool, Burnley et al were pissing around at the bottom of the old second division, and they've all flirted with or spend time in the top division recently. Accy Stanley used to be the butt of all football jokes when I was at school, and now they're an established Football League team again. I remember when Morcombe was all about the fish, and even they're established in the Football League. I remember when Fleetwood was all about fights and the 24/7 Asda; they could be in the third tier of English Football next season.

Not every club is a big city team. They're are NO county teams in English Football, and never has been. There never will be. Should all the London teams just say 'sod it, let join together and see if we can beat one of the Manchester teams?' No, it's an absurd idea. And the Lancashire United one is just as absurd. If nobody in town eats fish, don't open a chippy.

Many "absurd" ideas have been a scorned over the years only to be a roaring success. Stanley are (too their credit it has to be said) clinging in to League football. I hope they do.

Maybe you are right, maybe it's all cyclic and just our turn to watch Burnley be successful - or maybe the Lancashire football teams themselves are on the decline. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

As a Blackburner, who uses the town centre still, and has a season ticket, all I see is decline. I don't see a current cycle, I see a once thriving mill town now depressed. Shops shutting down. Working men's clubs turning into Islamic education centres, pubs being knocked down, churches bulldozed to make way for mosque car parks, young lads dragged up on council estates who would rather sit out and drink than get involved in football, lack of decent employment in the area, the constant worry about my own kids prospects. The demographic of our town changing, yet talk of trying to encourage Asians to Ewood is poo-poo'd too.

How is Blackburn Rovers going to continue over the next twenty or thirty years with the same entrenched people having the same entrenched views? The safe, if it ain't broke, don't fix it mentality. Well guess what, it's nearly broke.

The debate is about a hypothetical football club which looks beyond the current state to try to encompass more people, and 80% of people ridicule it. I understand why, it's a Rovers messageboard (it's a sign of the times that admin haven't already closed it). I get the tribalism and the history and the emotion, but I don't understand the need to slag people off on a personsl level every time they don't or won't agree with you.

I appreciate I wear my heart on my sleeve at times, and share my honest opinion a little too freely, and that you don't give a @#/? what I think but for @#/?'s sake at least drop the @#/? sanctimonious, macho act for 5 minutes will you.

Oh and Derby spring to mind as far as a county-representing club goes.