[Archived] Baroness Thatcher Dies

[thenodrog]

I find it odd that she's going to get a big military funeral. Someone like Churchill I can understand, seeing as it was World War 2, but Thatcher? No doubting she was an iconic, society changing, strong leader but I cannot see why there needs to be such a big funeral. And does this mean Blair will get a similar funeral when he goes, seeing as he got involved in more wars, and lasted a similar length of time?

I'd tend to agree. A funeral in St Pauls with a private burial / cremation and a monument or important building named after here would suffice imo. Churchill was an obvious exception because he held the country together when we went toe to toe with the mighty Adolph. We wern't around in those times but given the esteem that Churchill was held in I find it difficult to comprehend the result of the '46 General Election.

[thenodrog]

You missed out the current crop of tory toffs. Not a brain cell amongst them. Plenty of silver spoons though

New Labour appear to be full of Tories too. Barely a working class person among them! The working man has very little hope in politics.

I agree although I'm not at all sure what the term working class means anymore. It's meaning is most obscure these days.

If I had my way no one would be allowed to stand for parliament who had not worked in industry or commerce etc for 20 years. These kids who go from uni degree to a career in politics need to study at the University of Life before they are fit for such responsibility.

Granted, I'm only 28 so a little young to recall all things that went on in the Thatcher reign, but video footage of the poll tax riots is something that I can't ever forget.

Not many Joe Ordinary's there were there? Just a mob of commies, anarchists, and doleys.

[ABBEY]

Same with the Labour party these days, all career politicians who in reality don't give a flying kean about us.

It really doesnt matter who you vote for these days, the Torys will get ousted at the next general election and spend the final 12 months keaning things up for the labour administration, and then repeat 4yrs later under Labour, its disgusting how they use public money for points scoring against the opposition.

Id much rather have a dictatorship with Abbey running things, at least wed all know where wed stand, no lies just straight talking and the odd execution (Agnew and Kean)

A lot of executions !!

If there is a silence on Saturday I can see it kicking off .

[jim mk2]

Thatcherism and the nightmare of the 1980s comes back to haunt the north of England which is again suffering at the hands of an ideological right-wing govt.

http://ig.ft.com/austerity-audit/

How an entire national of 4 million "commies, anarchists, and doleys" (whatever they are) united against the poll tax.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22099785

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2009/04/01/remembering-the-poll-tax-twenty-years-on/

[Beta Ray Bill]

Exactly.

The fact that there's even talk of holding a minute's silence at the football for someone who wanted all football fans to carry ID cards is breathtaking.

Granted, I'm only 28 so a little young to recall all things that went on in the Thatcher reign, but video footage of the poll tax riots is something that I can't ever forget.

You might like to google some of the following for balance. Might not be as violent as the Community Charge riots, equally horrific to think the events happened in the UK....

The 1978 Winter of Discontent with rubbish uncollected and bodies not buried.

"The British Disease" with 30 million days lost to strikes a year prior to Thatcher. Less than a million post Thatcher.

"Healu & IMF" Britain going to the IMF to avoid going bust under Healy's Chancellor ship, making current Euro crisis looking like a wonga.com loan.

Every political party has some horrendous scars on history.

[Sandiway Blue]

What i don't get is if the Poll/Council tax was so bad then why did the amount we got charged treble under the Labour government? Also why didn't B-liar's mob put in place policies to create more manufacturing jobs?

Labour were very quick to criticise Thatcher for doing what she did but if the previous government hadn't have let the trade unions bring the country to it's knees,she wouldn't have had to do what she did.

Btw. Anybody else notice that yet again Labour has sent the country down the swanny financially and everybody else is having to sort out their mess?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'd tend to agree. A funeral in St Pauls with a private burial / cremation and a monument or important building named after here would suffice imo. Churchill was an obvious exception because he held the country together when we went toe to toe with the mighty Adolph. We wern't around in those times but given the esteem that Churchill was held in I find it difficult to comprehend the result of the '46 General Election.

I think the " Khaki " general election was in 1945. The blokes who'd been away fighting had been thoroughly politicised during the war. They weren't at action stations all the time so there was plenty of opportunity to discuss politics and current affairs. Although most people accepted that Churchill had done a good job as a war time leader there were lots of people with long memories of his previous political history. He hadn't exactly covered himself with glory in the past. My own view is that the electorate didn't want the Tories back at any price in spite of Churchill leading them, memories of the " Hungry Thirties " were still fresh in peoples minds and the Tories were inextricably linked to that era.

[Gav]

Thatcherism and the nightmare of the 1980s comes back to haunt the north of England which is again suffering at the hands of an ideological right-wing govt.

http://ig.ft.com/austerity-audit/

How an entire national of 4 million "commies, anarchists, and doleys" (whatever they are) united against the poll tax.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22099785

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2009/04/01/remembering-the-poll-tax-twenty-years-on/

I'm completely anti-Thatcher Jim, but what was the country like before she took power? the labour party had the country on its arse didn't it?

I don't expect to get a decent answer but I'll give it a go.....

[jim mk2]

What i don't get is if the Poll/Council tax was so bad then why did the amount we got charged treble under the Labour government? Also why didn't B-liar's mob put in place policies to create more manufacturing jobs?

Labour were very quick to criticise Thatcher for doing what she did but if the previous government hadn't have let the trade unions bring the country to it's knees,she wouldn't have had to do what she did.

Btw. Anybody else notice that yet again Labour has sent the country down the swanny financially and everybody else is having to sort out their mess?

Trade unions were fighting to improve the lives of their members - their emasculation as a result of Tory legislation since 1980 has led to stagnant wages among lower and middle income workers and an erosion of their living standards while those in the boardroom have enriched themselves with exorbitant salaries and bonuses. The gap between rich and poor in the west is now wider than at any time since the 1930s.

The current public deficit was caused by the collapse in tax receipts as a result of the worldwide financial crisis. Banks that had overborrowed and had bad debts had to be bailed out using public money. The Labour saved Britain's economy in 2008-09 and Gordon Brown received global acclaim for his measures in keeping the banking system going.

Thatcher's pernicious war on the unions destroyed large swathes of British manufacturing and devastasted commmunities. The north of England suffered in particular and has never really recovered.

Lancashire Tories like yourself are like a turkey who votes for Christmas.

[thenodrog]

What i don't get is if the Poll/Council tax was so bad then why did the amount we got charged treble under the Labour government? Also why didn't B-liar's mob put in place policies to create more manufacturing jobs?

Labour were very quick to criticise Thatcher for doing what she did but if the previous government hadn't have let the trade unions bring the country to it's knees,she wouldn't have had to do what she did.

Btw. Anybody else notice that yet again Labour has sent the country down the swanny financially and everybody else is having to sort out their mess?

You might also ask after all the promises they made at the time why when Labour swept to power under Blair they didn't...

a. Re-nationalise the industries that were privatised by the Conservatives that they reviled Margaret Thatcher for and as they promised they would once they got into power.

b. Re- opened and re-vitalised the pits and the mining industry...... as they promised they would once they got into power.

c. Reigned in the financial sector and the yuppie culture which they openly despised when the Conservatives were in power.

No wonder he became known as Bliar is it?

Trade unions were fighting to improve the lives of their members - their emasculation as a result of Tory legislation since 1980 has led to stagnant wages among lower and middle income workers and an erosion of their living standards while those in the boardroom have enriched themselves with exorbitant salaries and bonuses. The gap between rich and poor in the west is now wider than at any time since the 1930s.

Have you any facts to back that up?

And..... The west? What had the Conservative party and Mrs Thatcher to do with that? They were only in power in this country.

[Mike E]

The 1978 Winter of Discontent with rubbish uncollected and bodies not buried.

I wouldn't blame Thatcher for that anymore than the guys whose job it was to do that. If it were a relative of mine I wouldn't give a @#/? about government and demand my relative be respected.

I've wondered why we don't reopen the mines tbh. Create some jobs for the feckless.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

One day the mines will re-open, there's plenty of coal down there that we'll need in the future. Where the miners will come from is another story but they won't be British, Poland maybe or China ?

[Sandiway Blue]

Trade unions were fighting to improve the lives of their members - their emasculation as a result of Tory legislation since 1980 has led to stagnant wages among lower and middle income workers and an erosion of their living standards while those in the boardroom have enriched themselves with exorbitant salaries and bonuses. The gap between rich and poor in the west is now wider than at any time since the 1930s.

The current public deficit was caused by the collapse in tax receipts as a result of the worldwide financial crisis. Banks Labour that had overborrowed and had bad debts had to be bailed out using public money. The Labour saved Britain's economy in 2008-09 and Gordon Brown received global acclaim for his measures in keeping the banking system going.

Thatcher's pernicious war on the unions destroyed large swathes of British manufacturing and devastasted commmunities. The north of England suffered in particular and has never really recovered.

Lancashire Tories like yourself are like a turkey who votes for Christmas.

I'll just correct that for you.

So the answers to the questions i posed are??

As for being a "Lancashire Tory" tbh there's not much to choose between either of the political parties,hence why nobody could seperate them at the last election.It's about time the parties stood up for what they TRULY believe in.

[jim mk2]

You might also ask after all the promises they made at the time why when Labour swept to power under Blair they didn't...

a. Re-nationalise the industries that were privatised by the Conservatives that they reviled Margaret Thatcher for and as they promised they would once they got into power.

b. Re- opened and re-vitalised the pits and the mining industry...... as they promised they would once they got into power.

c. Reigned in the financial sector and the yuppie culture which they openly despised when the Conservatives were in power.

No wonder he became known as Bliar is it?

Have you any facts to back that up?

And..... The west? What had the Conservative party and Mrs Thatcher to do with that? They were only in power in this country.

1. And if they had re-nationalised industries what would right-wingers such as your self have said ? Let me guess....

2. As far as I recollect Labour never promised to reopen defunct coal mines.

3. The Tories in opposition from 1997 onwards were always telling the govt to ease regulations further. It's a good job Labour didn't listen.

Have a look on the internet about the wealth gap - widen your knowledge. The west = US and UK, some story both sides of the Atlantic.

[jim mk2]

I'll just correct that for you.

So the answers to the questions i posed are??

As for being a "Lancashire Tory" tbh there's not much to choose between either of the political parties,hence why nobody could seperate them at the last election.

The banks have bankrupted this country matey, bailed out by the previous govt to prevent the economy collapsing.

The Tories failed to win the last election and have not won an elction for more than 20 years because they are seen as the Nasty party. Thatcher was its unacceptable face.

[thenodrog]

I wouldn't blame Thatcher for that anymore than the guys whose job it was to do that. If it were a relative of mine I wouldn't give a @#/? about government and demand my relative be respected.

The Winter of Discontent had nothing to do with Margaret Thatcher. It occurred through conflict between the Unions and Jim Callaghans Labour Govt and resulted in her winning the General Election later that year. The Tories election result was more connected to Newtons Law of motion.... “For every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction”.

People who are too young to remember these years need to understand that we were in the midst of the ‘Cold War’ and living under the

nuclear threat posed by the Soviet led communist Warsaw Pact countries of eastern Europe. The 70’s had been a decade of industrial unrest and strike action inspired not by member requirement but by political ambition from numerous left wing activists who had risen to power through the Trade Unions. Margaret Thatchers popularity resulted from the reactions of everyday working people who were sick and tired of the damage which had been done to the country by the likes of the following Union leaders.

Arthur Scargill NUM ..... Communist Party member.

Mick McGahey. Scottish Miners Union leader..... Communist Party member.

Derek ‘Red’ Robinson. British Leyland convenor. .... Communist party member. According to the BBC, "between 1978 and 1979 Mr Robinson was credited with causing 523 walk-outs at Longbridge, costing an estimated £200m in lost production".

Hugh Scanlon Amalgamated Engineering Union..... Communist Party Member.

Jack Jones. Transport & General Workers union. Credited with Scanlon as the architect of the ‘winter of discontent’ on the back of

which Margaret Thatchers Conservative Party swept into power. Allegations persist that Jack Jones was working for and in the pay of the KGB.

Margaret Thatcher was not fighting the British working class ..... she was fighting the spread of communism.

[Sandiway Blue]

The banks have bankrupted this country matey, bailed out by the previous govt to prevent the economy collapsing.

The Tories failed to win the last election and have not won an elction for more than 20 years because they are seen as the Nasty party. Thatcher was its unacceptable face.

So why didn't labour boost manufacturing whilst in power? Also why did they treble our council tax bills (which have been FROZEN btw since Labour left the government?) Genuine questions which have yet to be answered....

EDIT:Also why did Labour make single parenting whilst claiming benefits they hadn't earned a career move that is such a drain on the country's finances?

[thenodrog]

1. And if they had re-nationalised industries what would right-wingers such as your self have said ? Let me guess....

2. As far as I recollect Labour never promised to reopen defunct coal mines.

1. Weak and vapid argument. You don't have an argument. Who cares what you or I or indeed any individual would have said?

2. In that case by definition the decision to shut defunct mines must have been correct.

Jim you are floundering.

[Ozz]

Archive Winter Of Discontent material

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7598647.stm

[jim mk2]

So why didn't labour boost manufacturing whilst in power? Also why did they treble our council tax bills (which have been FROZEN btw since Labour left the government?) Genuine questions which have yet to be answered....

EDIT:Also why did Labour make single parenting whilst claiming benefits they hadn't earned a career move that is such a drain on the country's finances?

Easy answer, to pay for better services. It's all about the collective. Benefits cost pennies.

Now ask questions about the real villains of the past 15 years: the rich who have been paying themslves too much while evading taxes; the greed and corruption in the boardrooms; the corporations who evade tax. These are the ones who should be held to account for the holes in the country's finances.

[jim mk2]

1. Weak and vapid argument. You don't have an argument. Who cares what you or I or indeed any individual would have said?

2. In that case by definition the decision to shut defunct mines must have been correct.

Jim you are floundering.

Renationalisition isn't an option and you know it, however desirable it may be.

Please try to keep up. This is 2013.

[adopted scouser]

Renationalisition isn't an option and you know it, however desirable it may be.

Please try to keep up. This is 2013.

So Maggie was ahead of her time all those years ago, well done. Should I get you a top hat ?

[Sandiway Blue]

Renationalisition isn't an option and you know it, however desirable it may be.

Please try to keep up. This is 2013.

Says the one still bitter about a prime minister last in office over 20 years ago...

So as a working man,what better services did i get? Perhaps you mean my local swimming pool closed down under a Labour government? Or maybe the closing of Rossendale (our local) hospital-under a Labour government? Or maybe the collection of our household rubbish being collected fortnightly instead of weekly-started under a Labour government? The introduction of charges for dental treatment started under a Labour government? The nearest accident and emergency hospital now being over 20 miles away instead of the 10 miles it used to be - yes you guessed it - thanks to a Labour government? The list goes on and on Jim....

Easy answer, to pay for better services. It's all about the collective. Benefits cost pennies.

Now ask questions about the real villains of the past 15 years: the rich who have been paying themslves too much while evading taxes; the greed and corruption in the boardrooms; the corporations who evade tax. These are the ones who should be held to account for the holes in the country's finances.

But who made the benefit system the farce that it has become?

I'll repeat:why did Labour make single parenting whilst claiming benefits they hadn't earned a career move that is such a drain on the country's finances?

[colin]

Interesting that this thread is becoming a discussion about which political party (either Labour or Conservatives) have done worse over the past couple of decades, rather than a discussion of margaret Thatcher's death

So just to bring this back to topic I'd like to offer this

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/thatchers-grave-not-a-nightclub-2013040965124

Thank you

[jim mk2]

So Maggie was ahead of her time all those years ago, well done. Should I get you a top hat ?

Missing the point. Do you want a dunce's hat ?

Says the one still bitter about a prime minister last in office over 20 years ago...

Bitter about what she did to this wonderful country...yes I am probably.

Please explain why you identify with a load of southern, Oxbridge-educated toffs who declared war on the northern working class ?

And try to do it without doffing your cap and licking their boots.