[Archived] Would you be in favour of dropping the Blue & White Halves?

[T4E]

I've already answered that question, go back and read the thread.

[Steve Moss]

Ok, I'll dumb it down for you.

Keeping certain colours achieves NOTHING. Sticking with tradition achieves NOTHING. What have either of these things done for us recently? NOTHING. It's all psychological, non-tangible nonsense.

May I ask what you do for a living?

Speaking from my personal experiences as a Marine, athlete, attorney and politician, the psychological aspect is 90% of the game. And tradition and history play a large role in that.

I think you are hugely mistaken when you discount that. Turn people and clubs into cookie cutter interchangeable robots and that's exactly the type of performance you'll get; robotic, devoid of creativity and passion. In other words, losers.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Ok, I'll dumb it down for you.

Keeping certain colours achieves NOTHING. Sticking with tradition achieves NOTHING. What have either of these things done for us recently? NOTHING. It's all psychological, non-tangible nonsense.

The original post was asking if we would change colours in light of Cardiff's promotion. In other words, if success were to come with it, would we accept it? My answer is a resounding yes, and this original question is the basis for my responses. If its playing in League Two in blue and white halves, or in the Premier League with all red shirts, the answer is a complete no brainier for me.

I can never understand why people give so much power to things that are, in the scheme of importance, incredibly trivial. We are debating the colour of the players clothes, and whether it would be better to have success or dress a certain way and be rubbish. Why is it even debatable?!

You mean you'll bother to construct a decent argument instead of lazy, flippant one liners.

Keeping certain colours maintains your international identity and recognition. Sticking with tradition maintains the reasons for there even being a club in Blackburn full stop. The first one helps you get noticed, by players, managers, buyers, and potential foreign fans. I'm sure you'd find it very unquantifiable but there are not a few far-flung fans who decided to support Rovers simply because they loved the kit.

Psychological, non-tangible nonsense, hmm. Ask yourself what is football? To any fan I know its not a set of spreadsheets showing league position and annual revenue. If you wanna talk about non-tangible nonsense, lets talk about the long-term effect of getting back in the premier league for a bit and having a few mid-table finishes. NOTHING.

Well it obviously isn't playing in League 2 in blue and white halves or playing in the PL in whatever other colours. We're talking about a hypothetical argument, you can't link it to reality and say "thats stupid cause if we don't do it we might be in League 1". Our reality and the reasons for it has nothing to do with our kit.

Yes why is it even debatable? Cardiff's owners rebranded the club and the kit on the assumption that the colour of the players clothes does matter. So you're calling your own side of the argument incredibly trivial to begin with. If its incredibly trivial then there is absolutely no reason to change it, and so there's no reason to discuss changing it, hypothetical or otherwise. So don't change it.

Although for the record its far from trivial in my opinion. And if my earlier posts meant absolutely nothing to you then a whole world of emotional connection and historical pride obviously bypasses you completely. You seem to practically have an autistic view on the subject.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The original post was asking if we would change colours in light of Cardiff's promotion. In other words, if success were to come with it, would we accept it? My answer is a resounding yes, and this original question is the basis for my responses. If its playing in League Two in blue and white halves, or in the Premier League with all red shirts, the answer is a complete no brainier for me.

Are you implying that Cardiff's change of shirt had some positive influence on their promotion?.If you are then that's just pure conjecture and nothing more.

This is a pointless argument indeed!

[scrumpyblue]

No, I would not!

[T4E]

Steve - I'm a self employed consultant currently in a contract with the UKs largest Telecoms network.

I know where you're coming from. I don't discount that - I just don't agree with it. For me, I like real things. Things you can measure, things that exist, have a purpose and achieve something by their existence. Keeping a certain colour shirt achieves nothing other than to pander to people that are scared of change and living in the past.

As far as your last comment goes - basing this on your location - are you an NFL fan? What you have there is a sports league run as a business, where teams change location, colours, stadiums etc. The end result is one of the most competitive, unpredictable sports leagues in the World. Can you say that about any of the major football leagues? We protect our tradition - and as a result we're afraid to change anything substantial and we end up with a product that is about as far away from the true definition of "sport" as you can imagine.

You mean you'll bother to construct a decent argument instead of lazy, flippant one liners.

Keeping certain colours maintains your international identity and recognition. Sticking with tradition maintains the reasons for there even being a club in Blackburn full stop. The first one helps you get noticed, by players, managers, buyers, and potential foreign fans. I'm sure you'd find it very unquantifiable but there are not a few far-flung fans who decided to support Rovers simply because they loved the kit.

Psychological, non-tangible nonsense, hmm. Ask yourself what is football? To any fan I know its not a set of spreadsheets showing league position and annual revenue. If you wanna talk about non-tangible nonsense, lets talk about the long-term effect of getting back in the premier league for a bit and having a few mid-table finishes. NOTHING.

Well it obviously isn't playing in League 2 in blue and white halves or playing in the PL in whatever other colours. We're talking about a hypothetical argument, you can't link it to reality and say "thats stupid cause if we don't do it we might be in League 1". Our reality and the reasons for it has nothing to do with our kit.

Yes why is it even debatable? Cardiff's owners rebranded the club and the kit on the assumption that the colour of the players clothes does matter. So you're calling your own side of the argument incredibly trivial to begin with. If its incredibly trivial then there is absolutely no reason to change it, and so there's no reason to discuss changing it, hypothetical or otherwise. So don't change it.

Although for the record its far from trivial in my opinion. And if my earlier posts meant absolutely nothing to you then a whole world of emotional connection and historical pride obviously bypasses you completely. You seem to practically have an autistic view on the subject.

I'm now going to ignore you, because it seems you struggle with basic comprehension, and your last comment is a pretty keany one.

[broadsword]

Personally, I think it's bad enough that there has to be a sponsor on it, and that it changes every year.

Part of my affinity with the club is the colours, the history and tradition. If you're not going to care about such things, you might as well give it up.

[T4E]

Are you implying that Cardiff's change of shirt had some positive influence on their promotion?.If you are then that's just pure conjecture and nothing more.

This is a pointless argument indeed!

No, I'm not implying that - the original poster of this thread implied that. I responded on that basis.

I think I need to lie down.

[Majiball]

The reason I choose Rovers at 4?

The shirt was better than chelsea's.

So no I'd not be too happy but in the same vein if our owners were akin to Cardiffs and what they are doing there?

What would people have said if Jack had wanted to change something like the shirt?

[T4E]

Yes why is it even debatable? Cardiff's owners rebranded the club and the kit on the assumption that the colour of the players clothes does matter. So you're calling your own side of the argument incredibly trivial to begin with. If its incredibly trivial then there is absolutely no reason to change it, and so there's no reason to discuss changing it, hypothetical or otherwise. So don't change it.

Although for the record its far from trivial in my opinion. And if my earlier posts meant absolutely nothing to you then a whole world of emotional connection and historical pride obviously bypasses you completely. You seem to practically have an autistic view on the subject.

Sod it - ill reply to these two paragraphs.

Firstly - the implication of the original post (which I'm starting to think I'm the only one who has read it) was that changing the colours led to success because it kept the owners happy and encouraged them to invest and build a successful team. If the same was on the table for us, I would accept that.

On your second paragraph, I have many emotional connections. I love my sons more than I ever thought I could love anything. I love my partner. I love the rest of my family and friends. These things matter to me. The colour of the shirt Jordan Rhodes wears doesn't even come close in terms of importance to me. He could wear speedos if he wanted, if he scored a hattrick every game I'd cheer him all the same.

Let me pose you a question - if a new Jack Walker came along - a sensible, level headed local billionaire with a long term affinity to Rovers, and wanted to buy the club from Venkys - but only if he was allowed to change the colour of our shirt - would you accept that?

[Majiball]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/analysis-could-colour-red-really-2050007

[broadsword]

I'd have concerns that it was the thin end of the wedge.

From what I recall, Cardiff's owners are Chinese, and blue's not a popular colour back home. Red, however, is and is seen as lucky and attractive. So it's a marketing gimmick. It seems that Cardiff supporters just have to swallow it, because they've just got promoted. They could hardly protest against the fella.

I'm not sure you could pose the same question about Rovers ... because the sort of fella who'd buy Cardiff and change the shirt is presumably hoping to leverage the fact that Cardiff has a good catchment area and is going to build the club up. If someone like that turned up at Rovers, they'd probably want to move the club to somewhere like Milton Keynes. That's why I said "thin end of the wedge".

In the future, I'll just be happy to have a club in existence in BB2 that play in blue and white halves and are called Blackburn Rovers.

Winning isn't that important to me any more, not after the Venky experience. i just want to feel that the club is part of the community, not someone else's plaything.

Other people may be happy to sacrifice tradition on the altar of success, I sympathise with the sentiment, but it's not for me.

I'll cheer them on whatever happens, but I just want them to not be some rich idiot's plaything. By the way, when did QPR change their bade? Was it when Ecclestone and Mittal were there? Those two weren't fondly remembered. I reckon a rich owner tampering with a club's traditions should ring alarm bells, no matter how much money they have or how loudly they proclaim their ambitions for the club.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

No.

He'd get bored in 5-10 years and sod off, probably having won nothing, and probably a few years later we'd end up back where we are now.

And then I'd spend the next 3-4 decades or whatever I had left supporting a club that had deliberately removed part of its soul for a shot at success over about 7% of its history.

Frankly I'd say "You sicken me!" in a comedic accent and have him flown directly into the Irish Sea.

[T4E]

Ok, so you stick with Venkys then.

I would bite his arm off.

[K-Hod]

I'd have concerns that it was the thin end of the wedge.

From what I recall, Cardiff's owners are Chinese Malaysian, and blue's not a popular colour back home. Red, however, is and is seen as lucky and attractive. So it's a marketing gimmick. It seems that Cardiff supporters just have to swallow it, because they've just got promoted. They could hardly protest against the fella.

I'm not sure you could pose the same question about Rovers ... because the sort of fella who'd buy Cardiff and change the shirt is presumably hoping to leverage the fact that Cardiff has a good catchment area and is going to build the club up. If someone like that turned up at Rovers, they'd probably want to move the club to somewhere like Milton Keynes. That's why I said "thin end of the wedge".

In the future, I'll just be happy to have a club in existence in BB2 that play in blue and white halves and are called Blackburn Rovers.

Winning isn't that important to me any more, not after the Venky experience. i just want to feel that the club is part of the community, not someone else's plaything.

Other people may be happy to sacrifice tradition on the altar of success, I sympathise with the sentiment, but it's not for me.

I'll cheer them on whatever happens, but I just want them to not be some rich idiot's plaything. By the way, when did QPR change their bade? Was it when Ecclestone and Mittal were there? Those two weren't fondly remembered. I reckon a rich owner tampering with a club's traditions should ring alarm bells, no matter how much money they have or how loudly they proclaim their ambitions for the club.

Fixed.

[yoda]

Sod it - ill reply to these two paragraphs.

Firstly - the implication of the original post (which I'm starting to think I'm the only one who has read it) was that changing the colours led to success because it kept the owners happy and encouraged them to invest and build a successful team. If the same was on the table for us, I would accept that.

On your second paragraph, I have many emotional connections. I love my sons more than I ever thought I could love anything. I love my partner. I love the rest of my family and friends. These things matter to me. The colour of the shirt Jordan Rhodes wears doesn't even come close in terms of importance to me. He could wear speedos if he wanted, if he scored a hattrick every game I'd cheer him all the same.

Let me pose you a question - if a new Jack Walker came along - a sensible, level headed local billionaire with a long term affinity to Rovers, and wanted to buy the club from Venkys - but only if he was allowed to change the colour of our shirt - would you accept that?

The highlighted bit means that he would never contemplate the change,

our kit is completely unique, the aftermath of trying to change it would be would be carnage

[Majiball]

Ok, so you stick with Venkys then.

I would bite his arm off.

Mr hypnotoad, If I pay off all your debts, give you a million quid and set your family up for life what would you be willing to change in your life in return?

My price for this is that you're whole family must dye their hair ginger forever.

Ginger or made for life?

Tricky choice.

[Stuart]

Because we are called "Blackburn Rovers". If you say that name, people know who you are talking about. It identifies us. If you say "the team that plays in blue and white" that doesn't narrow it down enough.

Our name is unique. Our colours are not. As I keep saying, what does heritage and tradition actually do for you? For me all it does it stop you from moving forwards.

Seriously?

Ask any football fan: "who's that team who play in blue and white halves?"

Surely you'd get a 99% accuracy of responses?

EDIT: corrected stupid iphone typo.

[Majiball]

Seriously?

Ask any football fan: "who's that team who play on blue and white halves?"

Surely you'd get a 99% accuracy of responses?

Well I have and the answer was but grass isn't blue and white.

[Stuart]

Well I have and the answer was but grass isn't blue and white.

Argh. (Another) iPhone typo. Stupid big thumbs!

[Exiled in Toronto]

Very clever. But I think you've totally missed my point. Plenty of teams play in all blue shirts. Nobody was suggesting that Cardiff fans would be happy about it, but if you saw a guy on a train with a blue football shirt on, you don't automatically think "Ah, there's a Cardiff supporter".

No, I got your point, but I didn't see it as that relevant. I don't why a lifelong Cardiff fan would be less attached to their shirt based on how many strangers come up to him (or not) and tell him whose shirt it is. Personally I enjoy the challenge of getting the answer from eyeballing the badge

[onlyonejackwalker]

It's a NO from me.

There is a reason companies maintain their corporate colours as it takes a huge amount of monies to educate after re-branding.

[Stuart]

It's a NO from me.

There is a reason companies maintain their corporate colours as it takes a huge amount of monies to educate after re-branding.

I'm not sure that argument applies to football fans.

Ironically branding (in Malaysia) was the reason for the move to red for Cardiff too, wasn't it?

[gumboots]

What would we change blue and white halves to anyway. whatever it was, unless it was pink and green stripes or something, would just make us blend in rather than stand out. I don't get the idea that changing something like your strip would be helpful if what you change to is ordinary instead of extraordinary. I know it's because red is lucky in some cultures that the cardiff strip was changed and there is an idea that red is the association with Wales and their dragon and so on, but for us, seriously , what would you change to if you felt a change was acceptable, and where would you draw the line?

[speeeeeeedie]

The blue and white halves are iconic, however I am with T4E; I'd get rid. It's only a kit.