[Archived] Venkys: "after we took over"

[longsiders1882]

[Veevs]

You would be stupid to underestimate the influence of one particular agency in the running of our club up until a certain period - this was validated to me in a conversation with an ex board member.

I am sure the Action Group and others have plenty more of this type of information from people who used to, or still are, working at the club.

However, it doesn't mean someone else owned us, they could have just been pulling all the strings (with the legal entity being the public face).

Does not need to be confirmed by you mate.. it was clearly stated in the leaked letter to Venkys from one of our now ex directors that a certain agency told the board to make a payment to an unknown third party.

[Edit] Sod it the quote..

John Williams letter also signed by Tom Finn and Martin Goodman.. exposed Jan 2012 that still to this day IMO is a direct breach of FA (Agents are not allowed to directly influence clubs like this) and legal rules (board responsibility.. it does not matter if you own a company you are legally responsible to clarify these things in advance to your board of directors and visa versa) in relation to running a football club and importantly a business...

‘Finally, our football secretary has, this morning, been instructed by SEM to issue a mandate

to a third party without any reference or approval from the board. We are not familiar with the player concerned nor is he one that has been mentioned to us by the manager. Could you please, therefore, clarify the role of SEM in our transfer policy.’"

[Andy]

Bless 'em.

Still working out the actual use for tin foil over in the Yorkshire end of the M65.

[longsiders1882]

tin foil? what's that? No we can't afford these new fangled things over here in gods own Lancashire, definitely from Blackburn with Darwen that image

[SD4E]

tin foil? what's that? No we can't afford these new fangled things over here in gods own Lancashire, definitely from Blackburn with Darwen that image

To be fair he is correct- that image can't be from the Yorkshire town of Burnley, after all, the guy has more than 3 teeth.

[Guest Norbert]

Of course they know what tinfoil is, it's what their sisters' 'medicine' is taken with after a hard nights' work with the rest of the family.

[Bundesburn]

I just don't see a great deal in the semantics of these emails. Obviously it reads very "second language-y" and I think perhaps people are reading a little too much into that.

Perhaps what should be looked into is not so much the fact that Bigfoot leads a Loch Ness Monster-owned, Illuminati consortium which owns Blackburn Rovers, but the fact that the probable/public owners of Blackburn Rovers have stumbled across information that would indicate deceit and insubordination on the part of the board they apparently appointed and their first action is to send a stroppy email asking why they've not done what they were asked to do. It's not a teenager refusing to tidy their room, it's a @#/? company!

I genuinely believe that they're inept enough to believe they'll get action and solutions from an email. It ties in to all the "close to our hearts" bullshit. Growing up wealthy means you have a lot of "friends," which instils the belief that everyone is out to help you.

It's the problem with raising children to take over already-successful family businesses, which is that they have no experience of crisis management or overcoming adversity. They didn't have to work for any of the jobs they've held. They don't understand the concept of building from the ground up, which is why they're throwing as much money at the club and as aimlessly as they have. I should think daddy's attitude to their upbringing was remarkably similar, resulting in their vulnerability towards hangers-on and chancers, as they sought direction from those more "resourceful" characters you find around the wealthy.

Those are the people who don't get caught. They don't leave fingerprints and they don't expose themselves to risk. There're too many @#/? idiots out there to take the risks for them.

[BlueMonday]

I just don't see a great deal in the semantics of these emails. Obviously it reads very "second language-y" and I think perhaps people are reading a little too much into that.

Perhaps what should be looked into is not so much the fact that Bigfoot leads a Loch Ness Monster-owned, Illuminati consortium which owns Blackburn Rovers, but the fact that the probable/public owners of Blackburn Rovers have stumbled across information that would indicate deceit and insubordination on the part of the board they apparently appointed and their first action is to send a stroppy email asking why they've not done what they were asked to do. It's not a teenager refusing to tidy their room, it's a @#/? company!

I genuinely believe that they're inept enough to believe they'll get action and solutions from an email. It ties in to all the "close to our hearts" bullshit. Growing up wealthy means you have a lot of "friends," which instils the belief that everyone is out to help you.

It's the problem with raising children to take over already-successful family businesses, which is that they have no experience of crisis management or overcoming adversity. They didn't have to work for any of the jobs they've held. They don't understand the concept of building from the ground up, which is why they're throwing as much money at the club and as aimlessly as they have. I should think daddy's attitude to their upbringing was remarkably similar, resulting in their vulnerability towards hangers-on and chancers, as they sought direction from those more "resourceful" characters you find around the wealthy.

Those are the people who don't get caught. They don't leave fingerprints and they don't expose themselves to risk. There're too many @#/? idiots out there to take the risks for them.

This is how I'm seeing it and IMO is the bigger scandal. Our clueless owners are running a multi million pound business from 1000's of miles away and have no understanding of that business. To not know what contracts are being signed off in their names, and keep repeating rank bad decisions, shows them for what they are. F**king idiots.

It also begs the question, why have Shagnew not been potted for such gross misconduct.

[47er]

Ae we discounting the theory that Rovers were run directly by a group other than the Raos in the early months at least?

I'm not.

[RoverScot]

This is how I'm seeing it and IMO is the bigger scandal. Our clueless owners are running a multi million pound business from 1000's of miles away and have no understanding of that business. To not know what contracts are being signed off in their names, and keep repeating rank bad decisions, shows them for what they are. F**king idiots.

It also begs the question, why have Shagnew not been potted for such gross misconduct.

Shagnew will present themselves as being 'local business people who have Rovers at heart' and that being local they know what the fans want. They will bow down to the Raos at every meeting and give them regal deference.

So from the Mrs D perspective - cheap, they know the club, they are local so they can connect us to the fans, they don't criticise us, they fly over when we need them to, they buy into our 'clever' vision of champions league football with Phil Jones-type youngsters. - This is why Kean was retained - he did the same thing.

So for the past 3 years we have been run by awfully incompetent people who bow down to the Queen of Venkys. People say we are being run from Pune - not really if Shagnew and Shebby have had a horrendous amount of power which seemingly includes changing contracts to cost the club millions, appointing crap managers and signing awful Portuguese youngsters.

People may also say 'why can't Venkys see the truth?'. The reason they can't is that Mrs D's truth is Steve Kean was the next big thing who discovered Phil Jones.

John Williams couldn't handle the new innovative regime and is now stirring up protests.

Big Sam was disrespectful and insulted our transfer policy.

Barclays bank are being too strict - do they not understand we have a master plan?

We don't want old players like Salgado and Roberts playing too many games to get new contracts - Steve tells us players like Jason Lowe will be World Class.

Shebby knows his stuff when I see him on TV - lets get him in charge of the Pune Academy and send him to the club.

We won't get relegated - Steve says so and I believe him as he buys into the master plan.

Mrs D didn't get the protests. She heard negative muffled noises which were vaguely against them and Steve. She wasn't going to give in to these protesters - they weren't as clever as her and the plan she came up with Steve and Jerome. She is the head of a billion dollar company - these supporters are just stupid and are being influenced by negative people like John Williams.

Who tells this truth and how did it become the prevailing wisdom? Who influenced their thinking in the early days offering a multitude of fantastic services which were all above board. How stupid were Sam Allardyce and John Williams in not signing Kris Boyd? Seriously, he scored a bucketload of goals in the SPL.

The unfortunate truth is this - you have to bow down to Mrs Desai. And if you do - you will be well rewarded.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Ae we discounting the theory that Rovers were run directly by a group other than the Raos in the early months at least?

I'm not.

What this theory has always lacked has been a logic, a motive and a rationale from Venky's perspective. Sure some dodgy agents might have spirited away a few million here and there but someone paid the Trust 20+ million, somone paid back the 20 million overdraft and someone paid for Jordan Rhodes, all on top of a wage bill, which has been paid in full, that accounts for 90% of income. Would love to hear why you think your theory hangs together.

[OJRovers]

Shagnew will present themselves as being 'local business people who have Rovers at heart' and that being local they know what the fans want. They will bow down to the Raos at every meeting and give them regal deference.

So from the Mrs D perspective - cheap, they know the club, they are local so they can connect us to the fans, they don't criticise us, they fly over when we need them to, they buy into our 'clever' vision of champions league football with Phil Jones-type youngsters. - This is why Kean was retained - he did the same thing.

So for the past 3 years we have been run by awfully incompetent people who bow down to the Queen of Venkys. People say we are being run from Pune - not really if Shagnew and Shebby have had a horrendous amount of power which seemingly includes changing contracts to cost the club millions, appointing crap managers and signing awful Portuguese youngsters.

People may also say 'why can't Venkys see the truth?'. The reason they can't is that Mrs D's truth is Steve Kean was the next big thing who discovered Phil Jones.

John Williams couldn't handle the new innovative regime and is now stirring up protests.

Big Sam was disrespectful and insulted our transfer policy.

Barclays bank are being too strict - do they not understand we have a master plan?

We don't want old players like Salgado and Roberts playing too many games to get new contracts - Steve tells us players like Jason Lowe will be World Class.

Shebby knows his stuff when I see him on TV - lets get him in charge of the Pune Academy and send him to the club.

We won't get relegated - Steve says so and I believe him as he buys into the master plan.

Mrs D didn't get the protests. She heard negative muffled noises which were vaguely against them and Steve. She wasn't going to give in to these protesters - they weren't as clever as her and the plan she came up with Steve and Jerome. She is the head of a billion dollar company - these supporters are just stupid and are being influenced by negative people like John Williams.

Who tells this truth and how did it become the prevailing wisdom? Who influenced their thinking in the early days offering a multitude of fantastic services which were all above board. How stupid were Sam Allardyce and John Williams in not signing Kris Boyd? Seriously, he scored a bucketload of goals in the SPL.

The unfortunate truth is this - you have to bow down to Mrs Desai. And if you do - you will be well rewarded.

Best post on here for a while.

[tomphil]

What this theory has always lacked has been a logic, a motive and a rationale from Venky's perspective. Sure some dodgy agents might have spirited away a few million here and there but someone paid the Trust 20+ million, somone paid back the 20 million overdraft and someone paid for Jordan Rhodes, all on top of a wage bill, which has been paid in full, that accounts for 90% of income. Would love to hear why you think your theory hangs together.

Why do people keep mentioning the origional overdraft. They didn't pay it off but transferred it elsewere, it's been well documented on this board. Think it was cleared or moved somewere recently but the point is they didn't clear the origional debts after they took over which would have put the club on a sound footing from the start of their reign. No wonder Barclays got so twitchy,

[BlueMonday]

Shagnew will present themselves as being 'local business people who have Rovers at heart' and that being local they know what the fans want. They will bow down to the Raos at every meeting and give them regal deference.

So from the Mrs D perspective - cheap, they know the club, they are local so they can connect us to the fans, they don't criticise us, they fly over when we need them to, they buy into our 'clever' vision of champions league football with Phil Jones-type youngsters. - This is why Kean was retained - he did the same thing.

So for the past 3 years we have been run by awfully incompetent people who bow down to the Queen of Venkys. People say we are being run from Pune - not really if Shagnew and Shebby have had a horrendous amount of power which seemingly includes changing contracts to cost the club millions, appointing crap managers and signing awful Portuguese youngsters.

People may also say 'why can't Venkys see the truth?'. The reason they can't is that Mrs D's truth is Steve Kean was the next big thing who discovered Phil Jones.

John Williams couldn't handle the new innovative regime and is now stirring up protests.

Big Sam was disrespectful and insulted our transfer policy.

Barclays bank are being too strict - do they not understand we have a master plan?

We don't want old players like Salgado and Roberts playing too many games to get new contracts - Steve tells us players like Jason Lowe will be World Class.

Shebby knows his stuff when I see him on TV - lets get him in charge of the Pune Academy and send him to the club.

We won't get relegated - Steve says so and I believe him as he buys into the master plan.

Mrs D didn't get the protests. She heard negative muffled noises which were vaguely against them and Steve. She wasn't going to give in to these protesters - they weren't as clever as her and the plan she came up with Steve and Jerome. She is the head of a billion dollar company - these supporters are just stupid and are being influenced by negative people like John Williams.

Who tells this truth and how did it become the prevailing wisdom? Who influenced their thinking in the early days offering a multitude of fantastic services which were all above board. How stupid were Sam Allardyce and John Williams in not signing Kris Boyd? Seriously, he scored a bucketload of goals in the SPL.

The unfortunate truth is this - you have to bow down to Mrs Desai. And if you do - you will be well rewarded.

Mrs D has declared in open court that an employee has failed to follow company policy, possibly costing them £1.5 mill. That is Gross misconduct. The fact they have not been potted adds fuel the theory that Venkys aren't really the ones in charge.

[47er]

Ae we discounting the theory that Rovers were run directly by a group other than the Raos in the early months at least?

I'm not.

Ha!

[philipl]

Mrs D has said she is not in control even now.

What the kean got discussed in Pune two weeks ago then?????

[bob fleming]

A GB NDA probably.

[G Somerset Rover]

As I said before, if the footballing authorities don't sit up and take action now then they never will. There's never ever been anything like this before. Major stakeholder says they have no power? If this was any other club than rovers then the broadsheets would have had a field day already.

[darrenrover]

Mrs D has said she is not in control even now.

What the kean got discussed in Pune two weeks ago then?????

Philip, I've observed many of your comments on this MB over the past eighteen months and never previously passed a comment.

They are often worded in a prick tease manner, clearly deliberately so, which is your prerogative of course.

What I fail to understand is why you have never carried out the courage of your convictions. You would appear to be a font of all knowledge with regards to the shenanigans at Ewood over the past thirty months, presumably supported by fact, that being the case why the cloak and dagger act?

I'm not having a go btw, just curious. If armed with so much factual information, further corroborated by evidence of wrongdoing, what has stopped you going for the jugular so to speak?

[RoverScot]

Philip, I've observed many of your comments on this MB over the past eighteen months and never previously passed a comment.

They are often worded in a prick tease manner, clearly deliberately so, which is your prerogative of course.

What I fail to understand is why you have never carried out the courage of your convictions. You would appear to be a font of all knowledge with regards to the shenanigans at Ewood over the past thirty months, presumably supported by fact, that being the case why the cloak and dagger act?

I'm not having a go btw, just curious. If armed with so much factual information, further corroborated by evidence of wrongdoing, what has stopped you going for the jugular so to speak?

Legal reasons are why he doesn't say things outright. However, sometimes he does know all of the dots but connects the dots even if they shouldn't be connected. Saying 'after we took over' means October 2010. It's not cast iron proof that Venkys did not own the club until June 2012 which he believes.

What I do understand more is his doubts of how Venkys had the cash to buy the club in 2010. Venkys might have say, purely as a fantasy theory, used a finance vehicle to initially pay the money to buy the club. So A bought C with cash provided from B. So Venkys become the owners of the club straight away on paper but haven't bought the club outright with their own monies.

The financial vehicle may say come from somewhere like the Cayman Islands. So cash monies from B comes from the Cayman Islands and goes to the Walkers Trust so they get their £20 million. The Walkers Trust are happy. Venkys become owners. They are happy. Venkys then pay back B at their own leisure.

In theory I don't see what's wrong with this. Just because the money may have come from a place like the Cayman Islands doesn't make it illegitimate or wrong. Its just harder to trace the source of the cash thats all.

In this scenario you would expect the Walkers Trust knew that Venkys might have had to rely on a separate financial vehicle because otherwise it gives the impression that Venkys are better off than perhaps they are. The financial vehicle might have been a bonus service in persuading them to buy the club but I doubt it as they already had a good long term strategy to be top 5 with Geovanni and Kris Boyd.

However, Venkys may have just borrowed the £20 million from the Bank of India in 2010 to buy the club which would invalidate the whole theory.

[philipl]

There is no shortage of people in India saying straight out that in the autumn of 2010 Venky's were asset rich but that they certainly did not have the £35m of cash which was needed to complete the transfer of ownership of Rovers

That was20m to buy shares, 5m to redeem the short term loan and 10m cash injection for new shares into Rovers required by the sale contract.

In addition 2m each was reputably paid to the tantric god by both sides

[darrenrover]

Its just so bloody frustrating.

From my perspective and general understanding of legalities, if you suspect impropriety and can substantiate any accusations of wrongdoing with factual, supportive evidence, there is no reason whatsoever to not publicise it as a consequence for fear of recriminations.

There can be no comeback, no fear of not saying anything for 'legal reasons' if any accusations are supported by fact.

it can only be assumed that to date the absence of any logic for the past 30 months, coupled with no coherent communication, leaves a void needing to be filled.

There is without doubt at least an element of truth in all the guesswork and inuendo that has flown about for 2 years but if someone is so cock-sure of their facts then surely make use of your gonads!

Not that I'm a legal expert but generally speaking, if there's difinitive proof that there's six fingers per hand, you can generally guarantee there would be a dingle on the end of it without fear of recrimination.

[47er]

There is no shortage of people in India saying straight out that in the autumn of 2010 Venky's were asset rich but that they certainly did not have the £35m of cash which was needed to complete the transfer of ownership of Rovers

That was20m to buy shares, 5m to redeem the short term loan and 10m cash injection for new shares into Rovers required by the sale contract.

In addition 2m each was reputably paid to the tantric god by both sides

So Philip, you are saying that BOTH sides paid Anderson for the sale of BRFC? So was he paid by Walkers to find a buyer and by Venkys to find a club? He must have thought all his Christmases had come at once if that is so.

Isn't there a massive conflict of interest in that scenario? If he hypothetically recommended Venkys to Walkers and Rovers to Venkys knowing he would pick up 2M from BOTH? That is surely unethical? Is it even legal?

For example, if any other groups were interested in buying Rovers, how can we (and they) be assured the others got equal treatment?

[tomphil]

It was reported in the press at the time that the tantric one collected a fee from both sides, think it was a million from each.

[47er]

It was reported in the press at the time that the tantric one collected a fee from both sides, think it was a million from each.

Sorry, don't remember that. Can only retain a certain level of bad news!

So, did both sides know that that was the situation? Thick if they did?