[Archived] Ref Killed By Player!

[ABBEY]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/51778089/

shocking .

[Audax]

In the USA, a lot of the football played is by Latinos, Mexican-Americans, Central Americans. It looks to me like this was a match with Spanish speakers. I think most of them are kind so this guy who did this "sucker punch" it sounds like must have been a bad apple. There is no excuse.

In the last 2 years, in one of the Eastern United States like Delaware or New Jersey, there was a shooting and no one killed from what I remember at a football game of Hispanics, sounded like a kickaround. So, these kinds of things may happen from time to time. And again, a very few could be involved in the drug smuggling from Mexico.

There was also a case of a game of Liberians where gun shots were fired but no one injured.

[Philly13]

Not quite sure how saying soccer is played by hispanics in the US is relevant here.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Sadly this doesn't surprise me massively. Anyone who's played amateur football in this country is probably very familiar with consistent and over-the-top violence and intimidation used towards the opposition and the ref, and the tragic thing is that approach often triumphs over ability. Half the time amateur football seems to treated by thugs as a handy place to assault people and get away with it.

[Audax]

Not quite sure how saying soccer is played by hispanics in the US is relevant here.

Maybe I shouldn't mention that detail.

Mario Vasquez, president of La Liga

Continental de Futbol, said he’ll hire off-duty police officers to watch

over games, which will resume this weekend at a middle school in a Salt

Lake City suburb. The 17-year-old’s team has been expelled from the

league.

http://thedailynewsonline.com/sports/article_dde3ed1a-b47a-11e2-bc82-001a4bcf887a.html

Looks like it's just part of the facts of the story. It might have a bearing that ordinarily, most Americans would not get this heated up over a soccer game. Have Americans likewise, carried out acts over cheerleaders or getting in fights over baseball games? Sure. Have kids gotten paralyzed playing ice hockey? Yes. Looks like the facts is this was a Hispanic league and probably 90% are Hispanics and quite possibly, non-citizens as well. Salt Lake City is where all the Mormons are, if it is likely, Mormons, Church of Latter Day Saints members were not involved, why not state that? It's tragic no matter what.

Need we forget, something similar also happened in Netherlands recently.

http://thedailynewsonline.com/sports/article_dde3ed1a-b47a-11e2-bc82-001a4bcf887a.html

Three teenage soccer players are facing manslaughter, assault

and public violence charges for a Dutch volunteer referee who was killed

following a youth soccer game on Sunday in Almere, the Netherlands, according to reports.

41-year-old Richard Nieuwenhuizen was a linesman for a youth soccer

match between Buitenboys and Nieuw Sloten. After the game, Nieuwenhuizen

shook players' hands and then three players from Nieuw Sloten, two who

were 15 years old and one who was 16 years old, surrounded him, pushed

him to the ground, and began kicking him.

[Steve Moss]

In the USA, a lot of the football played is by Latinos, Mexican-Americans, Central Americans. It looks to me like this was a match with Spanish speakers. I think most of them are kind so this guy who did this "sucker punch" it sounds like must have been a bad apple. There is no excuse.

I run a local youth soccer league (AYSO Region 397) which has just under 1200 kids participating. I haven't done the math, but eyeballing it we're roughly 50% Hispanic heritage and 50% Anglo heritage, which means Hispanics are disproportionately represented as they compose roughly 15% of the County.

Having said that, in our league the players are uniformally respectful of the referees, regardless of the players' heritage. In those rare cases were they are not (for the U12 plus, the smaller kids are just talked to), they are hit with dissent and sent off at the earliest opportunity under the theory its better to teach them the consequences of poor sportsmanship early. But I have never seen it that a referee has been physically attacked so the Utah and other examples must be extreme outliers.

And if I had to guess, the Hispanic sidelines (parents) tend to be more respectful of the referee's decisions than the Anglo descent sidelines, as the Hispanics understand the rules of the game, on average, a bit more than the Anglos who are usually (but not always) new to the game.

By way of example, I (a middle aged male of obvious Anglo-Saxon heritage) was refereeing an U10 boys game this last Saturday. All three of the forwards for one of the team were Hispanic. When I started the off side calls against one, one of the Hispanic parents stood behind the linesmen and indicated to the offending forward that this was the off-sides line. He left after a few minutes and the forward corrected himself for the most part and, on the few occasions he strayed, his team mates warned him that he was in an off-side position so he could get back onside before the ball was played.

So I think the moral of the story is that the player who struck the referee was likely a bad apple, but it doesn't have anything to do with his heritage. I suspect it has far more to do with that player's temperment/personal issues as it is by far an exception to the rule.

[Audax]

I run a local youth soccer league (AYSO Region 397) which has just under 1200 kids participating. I haven't done the math, but eyeballing it we're roughly 50% Hispanic heritage and 50% Anglo heritage, which means Hispanics are disproportionately represented as they compose roughly 15% of the County.

Having said that, in our league the players are uniformally respectful of the referees, regardless of the players' heritage. In those rare cases were they are not (for the U12 plus, the smaller kids are just talked to), they are hit with dissent and sent off at the earliest opportunity under the theory its better to teach them the consequences of poor sportsmanship early. But I have never seen it that a referee has been physically attacked so the Utah and other examples must be extreme outliers.

And if I had to guess, the Hispanic sidelines (parents) tend to be more respectful of the referee's decisions than the Anglo descent sidelines, as the Hispanics understand the rules of the game, on average, a bit more than the Anglos who are usually (but not always) new to the game.

By way of example, I (a middle aged male of obvious Anglo-Saxon heritage) was refereeing an U10 boys game this last Saturday. All three of the forwards for one of the team were Hispanic. When I started the off side calls against one, one of the Hispanic parents stood behind the linesmen and indicated to the offending forward that this was the off-sides line. He left after a few minutes and the forward corrected himself for the most part and, on the few occasions he strayed, his team mates warned him that he was in an off-side position so he could get back onside before the ball was played.

So I think the moral of the story is that the player who struck the referee was likely a bad apple, but it doesn't have anything to do with his heritage. I suspect it has far more to do with that player's temperment/personal issues as it is by far an exception to the rule.

Those may be the percentages in your AYSO but all over the USA are ethnic competitions and in some cases Leagues, it be Somali, Ethiopians, Latino, Hispanic and I'll add on to that, Vietnamese, other South Eastern Asian people. On the other hand, you aren't going to find many leagues that are largely based on whether you are white or not. Of course, one could argue that ethnic leagues are set up out of demand or also out of the reason is that it might be hard for a lot of ethnic minority young people to step into a "high school" starting team. The sport is much more popular in the home countries of these people in general.

http://www.tadias.com/06/05/2012/dallas-d-c-tale-of-two-ethiopian-soccer-tournaments/ As an example.

Everyone knows in any big American city, it's easy to find kick around with Hispanics and all that does is point to the sport being much more common with Latinos.

Does your league have a Spanish name like "Liga Continental" as this one in Salt Lake City is called? I think we already know the answer to that, no.

[Audax]

I think these "autonomous" leagues though are looser and not as well organised so I think that is an important detail of this situation. That this might not have occurred in a more structured league.

I guess that is my point, these organisations are run in a different way, this league was an ethnic league, leagues like that have been around a long time, Jewish, Italian, German, Hungarian, that's in the history of the American Cup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Cup

I've seen an Eritrean team vs. Ethiopian team break out in a fight, I've seen a player's eyeball dislocated in another ethnic game.

I guess I'm saying the structure and discipline in these games are a lot different. Players often pay to play in the league rather than playing based on merit, talent.

One of the articles lists the name of this league as "La Liga Continental del Futbol".

I'd say there is a good chance, a lot of these players are straight out of Latin America and not even US citizens, a big difference than the league you are using as an example. AYSO.

Was this arbiter, referee licensed or certified? Could possibly be no. Bless Him but he does not look like he could have run a lot on the pitch easily.

So, there are a number of variants here.

[Steve Moss]

The point is that out of approximately 600 Hispanic players this behavior does not occur. The fact the perpetrator was Hispanic means nothing. His ethic heritage, and the culture of the league, played no role in the violence. This has to do with an extreme and unreasonable reaction which cannot be justified by reason of ethnicity or otherwise.

[Majiball]

Must learn to read titles and not make assumptions.

[Audax]

The point is, this could well be someone here who is from another country and those kinds of leagues definitely have a number of non-citizens and in the USA illegally, unless Steve Moss distinguishes between US Citizen and not, post #9 is pointless, too, you have to understand there's a chance, this referee was not licensed and properly certified, too bad, but these games need to be carried out with rules and very possibly would not have happened in an American Youth Soccer Organisation game, AYSO.

This is the first time this has happened in the USA of a footballer killing a referee, you aren't going to convince me background has nothing to do with it.

[Audax]

For the record, Brit's Pub in Minneapolis has an Adult Recreational footy team for the Twin Cities, Minneapolis.

http://britspub.com/ Owner last I knew was from Burnley.

Those kinds of leagues can be much less disciplined than AYSO.

There are a number of "Mexican Leagues" in the USA, if a number of people are from Puebla Mexico, they will wear the colors and uniform of their home league, it is in fact a Mexican Mini League and for the record, I've seen a number of Mexican League matches, it's a good league, probably better than MLS. It is very sporting too.

There is a chance some of the best players in the USA will never be found by US Scouts, be seen in the MLS, make the USA team. But that said, those kinds of leagues, set up for profit have made an "accident waiting to happen" with what happened in Salt Lake City.

I've played against plenty of people from Latin America, 99% of them are cool but it's not totally unexpected that the referee being sucker punched like that happened.

[bluebruce]

In the USA, a lot of the football played is by Latinos, Mexican-Americans, Central Americans. It looks to me like this was a match with Spanish speakers. I think most of them are kind so this guy who did this "sucker punch" it sounds like must have been a bad apple. There is no excuse.

In the last 2 years, in one of the Eastern United States like Delaware or New Jersey, there was a shooting and no one killed from what I remember at a football game of Hispanics, sounded like a kickaround. So, these kinds of things may happen from time to time. And again, a very few could be involved in the drug smuggling from Mexico.

There was also a case of a game of Liberians where gun shots were fired but no one injured.

What a ridiculous post. As are all the subsequent ones you made. What a stupid tangent to go off on. If you had any actual evidence that the official was not licensed and certified (reckon that would have come out in the article), you might have something to discuss, but you don't.

[K-Hod]

I'm a bit confused by this Hispanic based tangent you've gone off on Audax.....

[longsiders1882]

Fair amount of casual stereo typing, hispanics have more respect, anglos don't understand the rules (even though the rules were formulated right here).

Wow. Having read the facts it wouldn't appear race was a factor, so why mention it, at all?