[Archived] Fergie Set To Retire?

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm astounded that Moyes is being talked about as the probable successor to Ferguson, we've seen over the years countless times that some managers thrive on working on a shoestring and punching above their weight with teams who aren't expected to win anything. As soon as they're promoted into a job where the pressure of expectation is higher and winning things is taken as a given, and there is plenty of money to spend, they crash and burn without trace.

Football has changed somewhat in recent years and at the level ManUre are currently operating at they're one of the three largest Clubs in the world and a huge global brand. You'd have thought they'd have gone for a proven winner at the highest level like Guardiola or Mourinho to protect the value of that brand. Not a manager who has never won a trophy of any sort in his life, nor ever competed on the European stage at the highest level.

I've nothing against Moyes as a person but I do sincerely hope his appointment hastens the demise of the red scum. Mid table mediocrity a la Liverpool would do just nicely.

[gumboots]

I'm astounded that Moyes is being talked about as the probable successor to Moyes, we've seen over the years countless times that some managers thrive on working on a shoestring and punching above their weight with teams who aren't expected to win anything. As soon as they're promoted into a job where the pressure of expectation is higher and winning things is taken as a given, and there is plenty of money to spend, they crash and burn without trace.

Football has changed somewhat in recent years and at the level ManUre are currently operating at they're one of the three largest Clubs in the world and a huge global brand. You'd have thought they'd have gone for a proven winner at the highest level like Guardiola or Mourinho to protect the value of that brand. Not a manager who has never won a trophy of any sort in his life, nor ever competed on the European stage at the highest level.

I've nothing against Moyes as a person but I do sincerely hope his appointment hastens the demise of the red scum. Mid table mediocrity a la Liverpool would do just nicely.

so are we all

[47er]

I think Moyes is the perfect appointment for them. He's achieved everything that money can't buy.

Now he has it, he will thrive there. Congratulations to United for avoiding the fallacy that only foreign managers deserve a seat at the top table. Chelsea should take note. When they won the Premiership with Mourinho they were bloody boring.

[Sparky Marky]

I think Moyes is the perfect appointment for them..

I don't think Rooney shares your view.

[Rover_Shaun]

Let's put this myth to bed once and for all.

Moyes had had ££££££MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS££££££ to spend at Everton

Just a few examples http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/everton-transfers.html

Bilyaletdinov £10M

Jelavic £6m

Fellani £15m

Mirillas £6m

Pienaar £4.5M

John Stones £3m

Distin £4m

Heitinga £6m

Yakubu £11.5m

Baines £6m

Andy Johnson £8.5m

Lescott £5m

Jagielka £4m

01/02 £8.9m

02/03 £8.25m

03/04 £2.45m

04/05 £11.25

05/06 £27.6m

06/07 £7m

07/08 £19.5m

08/09 £17m

09/10 £20m

10/11 £1.5m

11/12 £8m

12/13 £17m

£148.45m = £12.4m per season

Though over his tenure his net spend is £18m largely thanks to idiots clubs paying way over the odds for Rooney and average players like Arteta, Johnson, Rodwell and Lesscott. He has still had lots and lots of money to spend and nothing to show for it whereas the souness', McClarens, McCleish's and Laudrupp's have won a trophy on a fraction of his budget

[Alex Rover]

Quite right. I've never understood this fallacy about Everton being on a "shoestring". They've spent millions. Now when we finished 6th a couple of times that was on a "shoestring".

[RevidgeBlue]

so are we all

Ooops, sorry, corrected.

[thenodrog]

I'm astounded that Moyes is being talked about as the probable successor to Ferguson, we've seen over the years countless times that some managers thrive on working on a shoestring and punching above their weight with teams who aren't expected to win anything. As soon as they're promoted into a job where the pressure of expectation is higher and winning things is taken as a given, and there is plenty of money to spend, they crash and burn without trace.

Football has changed somewhat in recent years and at the level ManUre are currently operating at they're one of the three largest Clubs in the world and a huge global brand. You'd have thought they'd have gone for a proven winner at the highest level like Guardiola or Mourinho to protect the value of that brand. Not a manager who has never won a trophy of any sort in his life, nor ever competed on the European stage at the highest level.

I've nothing against Moyes as a person but I do sincerely hope his appointment hastens the demise of the red scum. Mid table mediocrity a la Liverpool would do just nicely.

In modern day football 'player power' is the enemy within. Fergy wouldn't bow to it and neither will Moyes. Somehow sheer professionalism has run through the veins of MU players for a generation and that has been the key to their continuing success and it's very similar at Everton. Both know that their can be no i in team and anybody who gets too big for their boots no matter how good they are is moved on asap. Think Ince, Beckham, Ronaldo, Tevez, RVN, Stam etc, great players and the media were shocked when they were binned off but the MU juggernaut has never missed one of them. Moyes will continue with that mantra and I've a feeling Rooney will be the first to go down the road. He's a declining force anyway (and both managers will have spotted that) but is still influential enough to serve as a disciplinary example to the rest of the squad.

The other issue is that as Fergy is staying on they need a manager who will be able to work closely with him for a year or two until he is bedded in, and those two know each other well enough to rise above that. It seems the perfect move for MU to provide a seamless change over.

My only question mark re: Moyes is that he is more cautious than Fergy and doesn't field two out and out wingers which might not go down too well with the fans. Other issue is whether there will be a role for Phelan.... or whether he even wants one.

[jim mk2]

Moyes is a gamble all right but I think United are hoping he is hewn from the same Scottish granite as Ferguson. As an aside is it a co-incidence that Ferguson is calling it a day just as his two greatest ever-present players, Giggs and Scholes, are almost finished as players too ? Giggs is still United's best player on occasions and one of the first tasks of the new manager will be to replace him. I also think Ferguson has looked and sounded particularly doddery lately - I wouldn't be surprised if his health is failing and is the main reason he has decided to retire.

[47er]

Quite right. I've never understood this fallacy about Everton being on a "shoestring". They've spent millions. Now when we finished 6th a couple of times that was on a "shoestring".

Much of the millions he has spent has come from sales, invariably at a big profit. Even then, the spending quoted doesn't come near what United have spent. I think Moyes will do a great job but hey, its just my opinion! I'm quite prepared to wait and see.

And if he fails I couldn't care less anyway!

I don't think Rooney shares your view.

Oh dear! So what?

[M-K]

Let's put this myth to bed once and for all.

Moyes had had ££££££MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS££££££ to spend at Everton

... blah blah blah ....

Net spend of ever-present Premier League clubs since David Moyes took charge at Everton:

Chelsea £526.5m

Manchester City £441.7m

Liverpool £173.8m

Tottenham £173.7m

Manchester United £155.4m

Aston Villa £103.7m

Arsenal £32.7m

Fulham £27.3m

Everton £13.9m

[LeChuck]

Let's put this myth to bed once and for all.

...

Though over his tenure his net spend is £18m

Nice of you to argue against your own post there, saves me doing it. Not often someone writes such a long posts then disproves it themselves at the end!

£18 million net spend is pittance. He's had Everton competing with clubs on far larger budgets and had them outperforming clubs on similar budgets.

It's all about the net spend, not the outgoings alone. Such a low net spend means that Moyes has always had to sell before he could buy. He never had the luxury of just adding to his squad, he always had to juggle by trading players.

[Rover_Shaun]

Nice of you to argue against your own post there, saves me doing it. Not often someone writes such a long posts then disproves it themselves at the end!

£18 million net spend is pittance. He's had Everton competing with clubs on far larger budgets and had them outperforming clubs on similar budgets.

It's all about the net spend, not the outgoings alone. Such a low net spend means that Moyes has always had to sell before he could buy. He never had the luxury of just adding to his squad, he always had to juggle by trading players.

He still spent £150m to win bugger all.

Net spend is something that is trawled out as a feeble excuse when a manager has spent big and failed to win a damn thing yet clawed it back on a few successful player improvements. His squads still cost £150m to assemble and in quite a few years his spend far outstretched his incommings.

Moyes was lucky there were simpletons who would spend stupid money on average Joes like Lesscott, Arteta and Rodwell.......add Rooney and those 4 players almost covers the cost of the other 70 non-trophy winning signings

At Utd he will be exposed like a drunks arse mooning in a city centre

[Howler]

Net spend of ever-present Premier League clubs since David Moyes took charge at Everton:

Chelsea £526.5m

Manchester City £441.7m

Liverpool £173.8m

Tottenham £173.7m

Manchester United £155.4m

Aston Villa £103.7m

Arsenal £32.7m

Fulham £27.3m

Everton £13.9m

very good point. Its amazing how many morons don't understand the difference between spend and net spend....

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

very good point. Its amazing how many morons don't understand the difference between spend and net spend....

Indeed it is. For example its amazing how many "morons" only look at net spend and then decide thats that and a manager hasn't spent much. Every one of those signings Blue and White Army mentioned will have come with a big contract, maybe an average of £2m a season for an average length of 3 seasons. So thats near £80m Moyes spent in wages from those 13 signings, that isn't included on the net spend. The other point is that you need that money there in the first place regardless of your overall net spend unless a manager starts his reign by selling players, which barely any do. And the other point is over certain seasons (like 05/06 for Everton), the net spend wouldn't have balanced out at all, so Moyes needed funding for that in the short-term.

A mixture of net spend and actual spend needs to be taken into account when deciding how much a manager costs a club. Moyes has definitely overachieved on what he's spent, but he still has spent significant money.

[LeChuck]

very good point. Its amazing how many morons don't understand the difference between spend and net spend....

I'm a bit amazed as well. If any set of fans should be able to understand that it's Rovers fans.

To sustain Everton as a top six/pushing CL club on less than £2 million net spend per season is an outstanding achievement. Obviously those in football recognise it, that's why he's getting the Man Utd job.

[M-K]

Moyes was lucky there were simpletons who would spend stupid money on average Joes like Lesscott, Arteta and Rodwell.......add Rooney and those 4 players almost covers the cost of the other 70 non-trophy winning signings

At Utd he will be exposed like a drunks arse mooning in a city centre

Good grief. You're a typical bitter Liverpool fan, annoyed that Moyes somehow made Everton better than your team on a smaller budget. You should be happy he's gone, as it means Liverpool might get one place closer to their 'rightful throne', but instead you seem more concerned that you've got one more reason to hate Man Utd.

Indeed it is. For example its amazing how many "morons" only look at net spend and then decide thats that and a manager hasn't spent much.

A mixture of net spend and actual spend needs to be taken into account when deciding how much a manager costs a club. Moyes has definitely overachieved on what he's spent, but he still has spent significant money.

Semantics. Less money than other top six clubs, that's the relevant fact.

[Rover_Shaun]

Good grief. You're a typical bitter Liverpool fan

What on earth!!?........

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

.

Semantics. Less money than other top six clubs, that's the relevant fact.

How relevant is it though when on average of those clubs he's only got the better of Villa? Don't get me wrong, as I said he's overachieved on a relatively modest budget. I just wouldn't go as far as to say he's performed miracles on a shoestring. Thats a more fitting description for Hughes' last 3 seasons managing us.

[M-K]

What on earth!!?........

Ahh, sorry - confused you with somebody else there. Still, the gleeful anticipation of Man U's decline and the rubbishing of Moyes's Everton record is a bit odd.

[LeChuck]

How relevant is it though when on average of those clubs he's only got the better of Villa? Don't get me wrong, as I said he's overachieved on a relatively modest budget. I just wouldn't go as far as to say he's performed miracles on a shoestring. Thats a more fitting description for Hughes' last 3 seasons managing us.

And if Hughes had sustained his success over 11 years then he'd probably be the one getting the Man Utd job. Moyes has done an excellent job for eleven years at Everton, Hughes has long faded.

Almost all of Moyes' signings pay off - Jagielka, Fellaini, Pienaar, Arteta, Lescott, Baines, Mirallas, Howard, Jelavic

He drops the odd clanger, but then so did Ferguson. No manager will ever get them all right. He gets a lot more right than he gets wrong, that's for sure.

[Rover_Shaun]

Ahh, sorry - confused you with somebody else there. Still, the gleeful anticipation of Man U's decline and the rubbishing of Moyes's Everton record is a bit odd.

As I am a Rovers fan it shouldn't :/

[Gav]

Ahh, sorry - confused you with somebody else there. Still, the gleeful anticipation of Man U's decline and the rubbishing of Moyes's Everton record is a bit odd.

No you didn't, i think you were right first time around nobody can talk as much cr@p about Rovers and then be so passionately against Moyes and his record at Everton

[Majiball]

Laudrups done it once, yes others have won things but where are they now??? Moyes has kept Everton in around the top 6 for ages, has a good track record in the market and has performed over a sustained period. I'm sure these will have been strong points in his favour.

I cannot believe people are attacking his record in the market. Just look at how many players he's bought relatively cheap and then sold on for silly money. Rooney and Rodwell would run their academy for 10 years easily. What's Felaini worth? Miralles, Jelavic etc etc Evertons record under Moyes is very strong and unlike Hughes he's been succesful at it for a lot longer. The job he's done at Everton is first rate and whilst I wouldn't have choosen him (Jose 4 me) He's done the one thing all these others people have mentioned sustained success on a shoe-string as the others are pretty much one-season wonders. Moyes has done it for 11 seasons. I also think that will be one of the main reasons he got the job, as the big names ala Jose etc never hang around and Moyes has and done very well at it as he's built a couple of squads during his time.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

And if Hughes had sustained his success over 11 years then he'd probably be the one getting the Man Utd job. Moyes has done an excellent job for eleven years at Everton, Hughes has long faded.

Almost all of Moyes' signings pay off - Jagielka, Fellaini, Pienaar, Arteta, Lescott, Baines, Mirallas, Howard, Jelavic

He drops the odd clanger, but then so did Ferguson. No manager will ever get them all right. He gets a lot more right than he gets wrong, that's for sure.

Yeah you're probably right. I suppose it comes down to where you think Everton would finish under an average manager. I always had it in my head that they should be finishing about 7th anyway, and Moyes has only bettered that 4 times in 11 seasons. But I'm probably saying 7th because thats how Moyes has made people think about Everton, when without him they probably wouldn't have been much better than the likes of Villa and Newcastle over the last 10 years.