[Archived] Turning a blind eye

[thenodrog]

There is a thread about the depraved actions of the sicko Saville preying on children so it's only fair that there is one about this shower.

It appears now that employees of local authorities and police divisions etc turning the proverbial blind eye for fear of being badged bigoted / racist / facist or even being reprimanded at work and blacklisted for promotion letc has been the wrong tactic. I'm damned certain that we can also include parliamentarians in the category.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-22438623

We have one sick society. Some people really need to look at their own reflection in a mirror. Turning a blind eye for fear of accusation and vilification can never be the way forward.

[adopted scouser]

Oldham and Blackburn an 'all, people are scared to comment to be deemed racist but it's a fact. Heads out of the sand and let's get medieval with these @#/?s, thumb screws the works.

If it have been my daughter I'd have your legs

[ABBEY]

Was heywood to not long back as well .

[Guest Norbert]

Was heywood to not long back as well .

Hey, I've got nothing to do with any of this!

[thenodrog]

From The Daily Telegraph

"Mohammed Shafiq, the chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, said: “The majority of Asians from all backgrounds abhor these crimes these criminals have brought shame on themselves and their families and the wider Asian communities."

I'm sure that is the case and it appears that whilst the authorities in Oxford tried desperately to look the other way these convictions were down to one very diligent and honourable police officer. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that there will also be plenty within those Asian communities who knew exactly what was going on and didn't deem it necessary to blow the whistle. Mr Shafiq needs to look at that a little closer inward rather than attempt such a whitewash. Most opinion suggests that this will be the tip of an iceberg.

[Mike E]

At the much lesser end of the scale, it came to a head for me when it turned out we're not allowed to fly our national flag (as it's 'racist') but a celebration of the oppression of the British Empire across the world (the Union Flag/Jack) is absolutely fine. The absolute last straw was a guy being deemed 'offensive' for flying a Jolly Roger in his garden when his autistic lad was playing a pirate-game with his mates.

The whole culture of being accused of being racist/homophobic has unfortunately led to ignorance in the other direction and (as we can see above) is affecting areas of policing that it absolutely shouldn't.

[Hanks]

At the much lesser end of the scale, it came to a head for me when it turned out we're not allowed to fly our national flag (as it's 'racist') but a celebration of the oppression of the British Empire across the world (the Union Flag/Jack) is absolutely fine. The absolute last straw was a guy being deemed 'offensive' for flying a Jolly Roger in his garden when his autistic lad was playing a pirate-game with his mates.

The whole culture of being accused of being racist/homophobic has unfortunately led to ignorance in the other direction and (as we can see above) is affecting areas of policing that it absolutely shouldn't.

As far as I am aware it is allowed to fly the cross of St George, seen them all over the place.

[Steve Moss]

The whole culture of being accused of being racist/homophobic has unfortunately led to ignorance in the other direction and (as we can see above) is affecting areas of policing that it absolutely shouldn't.

The police should have nothing to do with political correctness. Being homophobic or racist, though disgusting, should not be a crime and should not warrant police or other government intervention.

[Mike E]

The police should have nothing to do with political correctness. Being homophobic or racist, though disgusting, should not be a crime and should not warrant police or other government intervention.

Yes it should. It is illegal in our society. Racism is a small step from the disgusting segregation practices of your older generations. I'm rather proud that when a yank in Britain (during the war) complained about a black guy entering a pub he was in, brits gave the yank a hiding. Racism, homophobia and malicious/unnecessary discrimination against any group of people has no place in a civilised society.

Re: The flag thing earlier; it's allowed but I've been told to take one down (during the euros) for 'being racist' by a man of Pakistani descent. I did so out of politeness but wish I'd told him to knob off.

[LeChuck]

From The Daily Telegraph

"Mohammed Shafiq, the chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, said: “The majority of Asians from all backgrounds abhor these crimes these criminals have brought shame on themselves and their families and the wider Asian communities."

I'm sure that is the case and it appears that whilst the authorities in Oxford tried desperately to look the other way these convictions were down to one very diligent and honourable police officer. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that there will also be plenty within those Asian communities who knew exactly what was going on and didn't deem it necessary to blow the whistle. Mr Shafiq needs to look at that a little closer inward rather than attempt such a whitewash. Most opinion suggests that this will be the tip of an iceberg.

I hope the point of this isn't lost on you.

Sex abuse in the white community

[thenodrog]

At the much lesser end of the scale, it came to a head for me when it turned out we're not allowed to fly our national flag (as it's 'racist')

I seem to rem that it was either the Post Office or BT or similar who forbade their staff to display the George Cross in their vans on April 23rd. Something to do with winning the crusades I think .

However this thread was not intended to discuss such but rather the turning of a blind eye to crimes and in this case appalling ones by individuals in authority for fear of reprisals.

[thenodrog]

I hope the point of this isn't lost on you.

Sex abuse in the white community

Thats a bit pointed isn't it? Why should it be do you think I am a paedophile?

There are no excuses for the likes of Stuart Hall and Saville cos they were proven / admitted child abusers and rapists but they are almost like Guardian Angels compared to this lot, these evil @#/?s are not only guilty of child abuse and rape they are guilty too of supplying illegal drugs and drink to minors, forcing minors below the age on consent into prostitution for profit, gbh and wounding, illegal abortion and racism (no muslim girls involved are there?). However on the plus side in their defence we are told they are keen attenders of the mosque.

If any points have been lost it's you who has missed them LeChuck.

[LeChuck]

Thats a bit pointed isn't it? Why should it be do you think I am a paedophile?

There are no excuses for the likes of Stuart Hall and Saville cos they were proven / admitted child abusers and rapists but they are almost like Guardian Angels compared to this lot, these evil @#/?s are not only guilty of child abuse and rape they are guilty too of supplying illegal drugs and drink to minors, forcing minors below the age on consent into prostitution for profit, gbh and wounding, illegal abortion and racism (no muslim girls involved are there?). However on the plus side in their defence we are told they are keen attenders of the mosque.

If any points have been lost it's you who has missed them LeChuck.

It was this bit in your post: "Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that there will also be plenty within those Asian communities who knew exactly what was going on".

You're doing your best to tarnish a wider community based on a few rotten individuals. My point was you could say us white folk (it was nothing to do with you personally) are predatory sex offenders based on the same logic.

Maybe read the bottom 3 paragraphs. It makes the point more eloquently than I can.

[thenodrog]

It was this bit in your post: "Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that there will also be plenty within those Asian communities who knew exactly what was going on".

You're doing your best to tarnish a wider community based on a few rotten individuals. My point was you could say us white folk (it was nothing to do with you personally) are predatory sex offenders based on the same logic.

Maybe read the bottom 3 paragraphs. It makes the point more eloquently than I can.

OK so who do you think they were pimping the girls to? This wasn't a furtive grope in the dark was it? No doubt the people you are defending for would be doing some word of mouth local 'advertising' too.

[LeChuck]

OK so who do you think they were pimping the girls to? This wasn't a furtive grope in the dark was it? No doubt the people you are defending for would be doing some word of mouth local 'advertising' too.

No but it's still, it's a ridiculously low minority within the context of the whole of the Asian community. Just like the white community had nothing to do with the obvious cover-up that has gone on for years in these sex abuse claims.

I thought the point of that article was pretty clear, I didn't expect such a follow up conversation.

[Jock]

When we have disgustinging leaders and even past Prime Ministers that a vile disgusting paedophiles its not surprising that all walks of life have these types 'getting away with it'.

[broadsword]

Wow, Prince Andrew should really exercise more care when allegedly choosing his mates.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1362380/Prince-Andrew-naked-pool-parties-paedophile-friends-house.html

[Stuart]

Wow? Is it the first time you've read that story?

[BiggusLaddus]

Something to do with winning the crusades I think .

Winning?

[Guest Norbert]

When did 'we', as in Western Christians, win the crusades? I'd hardly call the middle east a hotbed of Catholicism. If anything, the crusades made the area more stridently Muslim than ever before. And the first victims of the crusades were actually Christians, who the maruding peasants thought looked a bit foreign for want of a better word.

[thenodrog]

When did 'we', as in Western Christians, win the crusades?

After extra time.

[Guest Norbert]

We didn't. The crusades were an excuse for the Pope to send masses of people on the rampage to 'liberate' the Holy land from non-believers. In the long run, they failed.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

The problem for me centres around generalising. If you govern a country of 50m people, its vastly more difficult and less efficient to do it without making use of patterns, trends, etc.

For example say you were a farmer who owned 50 fields arranged in a giant square. One corner of the square has fields with more weeds than average, one corner has more badgers than average, one floods more than average etc. The farmer wouldn't approach the problem by checking every single field for weeds and pulling them up one by one, then laying badger traps next to every crop in every field, then building a dam around every row of crops in every field. Whilst he was taking forever doing that, another 10 different problems might have cropped up across all his fields. What he'd do is figure out what the root causes of his problems were, and then target the fields affected most.

The government does this for most issues and with most groups. It puts more police on trains with football fans, it carries out more stop and searches in areas with a higher crime rate, it instructs universities to encourage students to take more regular STD checks. Almost every section of society is generalised to one extent or another because its virtually impossible to make policies based on the subtely different needs/infractions/customs of 50,000,000 separate people.

The problem as I see it with Muslims/Islam is it doesn't seem to be allowed to generalise them in any negative way. You're allowed to generalise them in a positive way, like for example building a Mosque in area 60% asian. Not all asian people might be Muslim, not all of them might need a Mosque there, 40% of that area isn't Muslim. But some Muslims have raised the issue that one is required, and therefore one is usually built. Well in the Oxford case some Muslims have raised the issue that selling white girls into prostitution has a higher than average chance of happening in the Muslim community than it does elsewhere, but as soon as its suggested measures are taken to combat that specifically in the Muslim community, there's outrage and the demand that there be no generalising.

Thats the way I see it anyway.

[Mike E]

The problem for me centres around generalising. If you govern a country of 50m people, its vastly more difficult and less efficient to do it without making use of patterns, trends, etc.

For example say you were a farmer who owned 50 fields arranged in a giant square. One corner of the square has fields with more weeds than average, one corner has more badgers than average, one floods more than average etc. The farmer wouldn't approach the problem by checking every single field for weeds and pulling them up one by one, then laying badger traps next to every crop in every field, then building a dam around every row of crops in every field. Whilst he was taking forever doing that, another 10 different problems might have cropped up across all his fields. What he'd do is figure out what the root causes of his problems were, and then target the fields affected most.

The government does this for most issues and with most groups. It puts more police on trains with football fans, it carries out more stop and searches in areas with a higher crime rate, it instructs universities to encourage students to take more regular STD checks. Almost every section of society is generalised to one extent or another because its virtually impossible to make policies based on the subtely different needs/infractions/customs of 50,000,000 separate people.

The problem as I see it with Muslims/Islam is it doesn't seem to be allowed to generalise them in any negative way. You're allowed to generalise them in a positive way, like for example building a Mosque in area 60% asian. Not all asian people might be Muslim, not all of them might need a Mosque there, 40% of that area isn't Muslim. But some Muslims have raised the issue that one is required, and therefore one is usually built. Well in the Oxford case some Muslims have raised the issue that selling white girls into prostitution has a higher than average chance of happening in the Muslim community than it does elsewhere, but as soon as its suggested measures are taken to combat that specifically in the Muslim community, there's outrage and the demand that there be no generalising.

Thats the way I see it anyway.

Pretty much bob on imo.

[LeChuck]

Pretty much bob on imo.

Except that all the comparisons and analogies are miles apart in terms of numbers. The problem is individuals, or groups of inviduals, in a huge community. Just like the white sexual predators (and the people that covered up the abuse) that keep being revealed in the papers have nothing to do with white British community as a whole.

The percentage of offenders in the population will be nowhere near the percentage figures of crime in bad areas, or students with STDs. We're talking fractions of a percent compared to probable double-figure percentages. The field analogy would have to be the odd daisy popping up in one of the fields, not whole sections of it being affected by something.

The problem as I see it with Muslims/Islam is it doesn't seem to be allowed to generalise them in any negative way

I'm not sure that's entirely true. It's been admitted that they fail to integrate into British culture and society, creating divisions in communities. But it's such a huge number of people that you can't cast many generalisations. Would you say all Catholics are paedophiles?