[Archived] Shebby Singh

[RibbleValleyRover]

He's gone and he's not coming back. Looking at the past to learn from mistakes is vital but we've been there and done that several times already.

On the point of whether we could or could not have got a better manager in than Kean we don't know for sure as we weren't involved in the process. I would suspect that it was a near certainty we could have, Rovers were an established Premier League club that was hovering in and around mid table. Plenty of managers with experience would have loved to have been interviewed for the job but weren't because Venky's for whatever reason that only they know chose it not to be that way. A promotion was made from within, there was no interview process to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

If you read the last few pages you would think fans made the decision to sack Allardyce and replace him with a crap manager. As a I recall at the time Venky's owned the club, they made the decision to sack and they made the decision on who was to replace him. The fans weren't involved in the process whatsoever, sure there were some dissenting voices but do you really believe the owners based in India paid any notice to it? Of course not.

[laughatthedingles]

For me getting rid of Allardyce was not the mistake, it was their choice of replacement. With the financial input Venkys have provided another manager could have kept us in the PL. Allardyce managed to make going to watch us a chore, he stopped it being fun. I remember coming away from the ground after beating Sunderland 1-0 and it was so flat, nobody wants to watch that. The difference between Hughes etc and Allardyce was that I rarely enjoyed a game under Allardyce,

win, lose or draw whereas Hughes etc most of the games were enjoyable, the minority weren't, not the majority.

[Amo]

It's also worth noting that Kean was one of Rovers' worst managers in recent times, and yet even under his calamitous reign we only went down by six points. Would it have been impossible to find a manager who could've won two more games than him?

[arbitro]

To be fair, if not for Robbo's heroics that day, Rovers would've squandered that win. Wolves were on the ropes but instead of putting them away, Sam decided to hold back, and it almost cost Rovers. Almost.

EDIT: I'm thinking of the 3-0, actually.

I was disenchanted at the tactics in the Wolves game when he brought Morris on at left back and moved Givet to centre half with Nelsen and Samba to play a rigid back five when we were three up. He did it co combat the offensive substitutions that McCarthy made and to keep a clean sheet (of which he once said he gets more pleasure out of keeping a clean sheet as he does in scoring a goal). My bone of contention was that the week before I saw them roll over at Old Trafford and lose 7-1 when he played the likes of Chimbonda and Goulon, he basically tossed it off with no regard for the fans. At 3-0 in the Wolves game we had a chance to go on and win by a big margin. I would have seen that as a payback for the fans who paid nigh on £40 the week before. However I didn't boo or criticise him when it happened, I just saw it as an opportunity missed.

[OJRovers]

It was a very strange team/bench/tactics for the 7-1 at Old Trafford, with hindsight maybe BS knew he was going to be sacked and decided to ruin the Venkys watching the match at their big party.

[ABBEY]

Ha I can't mention venkys or get threatened with a ban again , yet all this Sam chat is repetitive and off topic . Must say I'm chuckling ironically.

[Amo]

Ha I can't mention venkys or get threatened with a ban again , yet all this Sam chat is repetitive and off topic . Must say I'm chuckling ironically.

Wasn't it using the provocative term "Venky love" for why you were warned of a ban?

[davulsukur]

It was a very strange team/bench/tactics for the 7-1 at Old Trafford, with hindsight maybe BS knew he was going to be sacked and decided to ruin the Venkys watching the match at their big party.

I don't think he would do that even if he knew he was to be potted.

[cn174]

Ha I can't mention venkys or get threatened with a ban again , yet all this Sam chat is repetitive and off topic . Must say I'm chuckling ironically.

Again, noone said you couldn't mention Venkys or that you'll get banned for it, you've interpreted that yourself.

[eire3382]

He's gone and he's not coming back. Looking at the past to learn from mistakes is vital but we've been there and done that several times already.

On the point of whether we could or could not have got a better manager in than Kean we don't know for sure as we weren't involved in the process. I would suspect that it was a near certainty we could have, Rovers were an established Premier League club that was hovering in and around mid table. Plenty of managers with experience would have loved to have been interviewed for the job but weren't because Venky's for whatever reason that only they know chose it not to be that way. A promotion was made from within, there was no interview process to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

If you read the last few pages you would think fans made the decision to sack Allardyce and replace him with a crap manager. As a I recall at the time Venky's owned the club, they made the decision to sack and they made the decision on who was to replace him. The fans weren't involved in the process whatsoever, sure there were some dissenting voices but do you really believe the owners based in India paid any notice to it? Of course not.

If we had appointed a blind chimp and let it use a dart board to pick the team/tactics we would have had a better chance then the bald fat one.

Venkys have been a disaster from start up to this summer. Are they any better now, probably not, I think we might just be lucky that their latest cheap choice is not a fool. They will never ever be able to mend the relationship with the fan base and with Shaw and SS still running around clamity is just around the next bend. On the never ending Big Sam debate, of course they should never have sacked him. He is a very good manager and for a club our size he is nearly perfect. In fact he would seem to fit with the chicken farmers chaep method. Any way lets leave that where it belongs. We had a good history before the Indians and will rebuild after the clear off. For now we are in the dark ages.

[ABBEY]

Again, noone said you couldn't mention Venkys or that you'll get banned for it, you've interpreted that yourself.

So it's love in I can't mention ?

Going off glens reply on twitter it's venkys tho .

Time to contemplate joining blue Phil et al.

[Majiball]

We're talking about the mistakes that lead us to our demise. Don't see anything wrong with that - apart from this is the Shebby's Singh thread!

Well if we're going down this route than Sam can hold up his hands. Kean was well known about in footballing circles and yet he hired him. He even took him along to meet potential new owners, big mistake as if there's definitely one truism in football it's trust no-one. The Walker trust can also take some serious blame for empowering Le Rat to find a buyer for our club and getting him involved. Again he's well known about and yet? I agree with Rev in that reading this it does appear that the fans are being used as the reason Sam was removed when surely given Andy Coles comments, it's clear the fans were used as an excuse to sack him. We all know what Venky's are like how many lies they have told, this is just yet another.

Does Sam's football polarize people? Yes it clearly does and that's a good thing as why should everyone be satisfied with the same thing? They shouldn't as we're all driven by differing beliefs and values. Yes Sam is guaranteed (to a degree as nothing is in football) to keep you up but at the same time he's guaranteed to split the fanbase as has been seen at Bolton, Newcastle, Rovers and now West Ham. JW knew this and that's why he waited till we were almost dead and buried to hire him as a club run in the way we were cannot lose fans.

[Mike E]

Its all a matter of opinion, but after Saturdays performance and pre-season, we're full of average players with square pegs in round holes, IMO.

Lets see what unfolds in the coming weeks.

Unless there's a point I'm missing (please enlighten me, as I genuinely don't know), I'm not sure you understand that phrase.

[thenodrog]

A lot of people made their mind up before he walked into the club, remember the Facebook episode when JW decided to put Allardyce on the back burner in favour of Ince?

Quite simply that decision by Williams represented the beginning of the end for BRFC. It cost us some good players saw us bring in some poorer ones and lost us arguably the best keeper in the Prem. It was often debated on here how many points Brad was worth over a season, opinions ranged from approx 6-10. Adding them to allardyces two year points totals makes for very impressive figures that even the most committed Allardyce detractor could not criticise for fear of ridicule.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

He's gone and he's not coming back. Looking at the past to learn from mistakes is vital but we've been there and done that several times already.

Except barely any of his critics have learnt anything as most haven't admitted to being wrong about him. Which means that the next time we get a manager who wins ugly, the same fans will be doing the same moaning. Although without stupid media catchphrases like hoofball to blindly follow maybe it'll be less intense.

[Majiball]

Quite simply that decision by Williams represented the beginning of the end for BRFC. It cost us some good players saw us bring in some poorer ones and lost us arguably the best keeper in the Prem. It was often debated on here how many points Brad was worth over a season, opinions ranged from approx 6-10. Adding them to allardyces two year points totals makes for very impressive figures that even the most committed Allardyce detractor could not criticise for fear of ridicule.

Was it ever, JW knew what would happen within the fanbase with Sam's appointment. JW's big mistake was in thinking Ince was up to the job and declining Laudrup.

[thenodrog]

Comments like this leave me with my head in hands..were you one of the Ewood morons who,at 3-1 up and cruising at home against Wolves,decided they were not 'entertained' enough and began to boo the side after a few backpasses?

I cringe when I recall that day,FFS look at us now.

Shameful, unfathomable and extremely embarrassing for the club.

I rem one particular @#/? sat a few rows back in the JW upper who was probably 'out' for the day dressed in the usual stone island etc garb standing to run down the steps to the front to scream and boo that incident with his face contorted with rage. Unless he's succumbed to the slow burning but ultimately fatal illness that I hexed upon him I guess he'll be watching city now.

[Majiball]

Except barely any of his critics have learnt anything as most haven't admitted to being wrong about him. Which means that the next time we get a manager who wins ugly, the same fans will be doing the same moaning. Although without stupid media catchphrases like hoofball to blindly follow maybe it'll be less intense.

And neither have his supporters learnt anything either? The only way we could survive was to play very direct and yet Sam picked up more points when he took the shackles off with those last few games in his final full season. There is always more than one way to skin a cat and the same applies here and always has and yet his supporters still maintain it's the only way. Pot kettle black in my eyes.

[den]

Does Sam's football polarize people? Yes it clearly does and that's a good thing as why should everyone be satisfied with the same thing? They shouldn't as we're all driven by differing beliefs and values. Yes Sam is guaranteed (to a degree as nothing is in football) to keep you up but at the same time he's guaranteed to split the fanbase as has been seen at Bolton, Newcastle, Rovers and now West Ham. JW knew this and that's why he waited till we were almost dead and buried to hire him as a club run in the way we were cannot lose fans.

I think people's perceptions of Sam's football, rather than the football itself, polarises fans Maj. Many, many fans pre-judged him before he came here. Same at Newcastle. My dissatisfaction with Sam's football was his overuse of the long free kick. I always thought he should have mixed that up a bit more, but it was very effective. The football during open play was nowhere near as bad as some fans make out though - and especially so taking into consideration the league position when he took over and the fact he had to sell so many players. What exactly did people want?

At the end of the day Maj, fans satisfaction is shown through attendances and I've really seen nothing from any of his clubs to suggest they were so unhappy with him. As for splitting the fan base at West Ham, well all I can see is him taking them into their new stadium and becoming a very big club under his stewardship, assuming they don't go down the same route as us. Haven't most, if not all home games at Wham so far been virtually sold out? I would have to check that out.

[thenodrog]

Some people learn from the past, Whilst others continue to live in it.

(and anybody that likes to say something along the line of 'i told you so' in relation to anything is just an arrogant sad creep)

What would you expect?

Learning the lessons of history is OK for losers. Having the intelligence and foresight not to need to is much better.

He's gone and he's not coming back. Looking at the past to learn from mistakes is vital but we've been there and done that several times already.

On the point of whether we could or could not have got a better manager in than Kean we don't know for sure as we weren't involved in the process. I would suspect that it was a near certainty we could have, Rovers were an established Premier League club that was hovering in and around mid table. Plenty of managers with experience would have loved to have been interviewed for the job but weren't because Venky's for whatever reason that only they know chose it not to be that way. A promotion was made from within, there was no interview process to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

If you read the last few pages you would think fans made the decision to sack Allardyce and replace him with a crap manager. As a I recall at the time Venky's owned the club, they made the decision to sack and they made the decision on who was to replace him. The fans weren't involved in the process whatsoever, sure there were some dissenting voices but do you really believe the owners based in India paid any notice to it? Of course not.

Are you a direct descendant of Pontious Pilate?

For me getting rid of Allardyce was not the mistake, it was their choice of replacement. With the financial input Venkys have provided another manager could have kept us in the PL. Allardyce managed to make going to watch us a chore, he stopped it being fun. I remember coming away from the ground after beating Sunderland 1-0 and it was so flat, nobody wants to watch that. The difference between Hughes etc and Allardyce was that I rarely enjoyed a game under Allardyce,

win, lose or draw whereas Hughes etc most of the games were enjoyable, the minority weren't, not the majority.

Oh what sweet irony..... now the dingles are laughing at you us.

btw I'd rather watch us beat Sunderland in the prem 1-0 for £12 than lose to Nottm Forest in the Championship for my now usual freebie .

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

And neither have his supporters learnt anything either? The only way we could survive was to play very direct and yet Sam picked up more points when he took the shackles off with those last few games in his final full season. There is always more than one way to skin a cat and the same applies here and always has and yet his supporters still maintain it's the only way. Pot kettle black in my eyes.

Learnt from what? You learn from your mistakes and we have got worse, and worse, and worse since Sam left. So his supporters didn't make any mistakes, Venkys did, possibly influenced by fans who did by vocally criticising him from the terraces in numerous games. In what sense did Sam take the shackles off at the end of 09/10? From the start of April our results were 0-0, 0-0, 2-3, 1-1, 2-1, 1-0. Take the 3-2 defeat to Everton out of the equation (where we took the shackles off and it didn't work) and we played the same way as usual. Our 2 goals in the win against Arsenal came from bullying their keeper off corners. Nothing changed, the long-ball moaners just couldn't hack that we'd finished 10th playing long ball, so some came up with the novel get-out that we weren't actually playing long-ball anymore.

I doubt any of his supporters have said that's the only way. A lot have said its the most effective way when you have inferior quality midfielders to the opposition. Quality depends on money, Sam had no money, so long-ball was the best tactic. Its his detractors who have a problem, too much Sky TV, watching the best players, and demanding their skint local club plays the same way. If I had one word to define the anti-Allardyce fans it would be unrealistic, and nothing that has happened since he left has even remotely indicated otherwise.

[RevidgeBlue]

Shameful, unfathomable and extremely embarrassing for the club.

I rem one particular @#/? sat a few rows back in the JW upper who was probably 'out' for the day dressed in the usual stone island etc garb standing to run down the steps to the front to scream and boo that incident with his face contorted with rage. Unless he's succumbed to the slow burning but ultimately fatal illness that I hexed upon him I guess he'll be watching city now.

If Sam wanted to turn down a clear opportunity to improve the goal difference and boost confidence further that was his prerogative . Doesn't make it the right thing to do though. You would never have found a team managed by SAF that had their foot on their oponent's throat easing off. His instructions would have been to press harder! Hence the number of sevens eights and I think one nine they scored.

Still a very minor incident in the overall scheme of things though.

[thenodrog]

It's also worth noting that Kean was one of Rovers' worst managers in recent times, and yet even under his calamitous reign we only went down by six points. Would it have been impossible to find a manager who could've won two more games than him?

It can't be easy trying to re-write history but you are giving it a good go. there was no better candidate for BRFC at the time and thats that. The question of who was better and who would come (and who would be likely stay) was asked time and again without anything like a plausible or realsitic answer in reply.

Stick to the facts Amarillo cos you appear to have conveniently forgotten that we went from a mid table comfort zone to scrapping to avoid relegation within half a season of employing Kean as predicted by many on here. Relegation the season after was virtually inevitable. It was like watching a car full of close relatives crash in slow motion. All so unecessary.

[arbitro]

It can't be easy trying to re-write history but you are giving it a good go. there was no better candidate for BRFC at the time and thats that. The question of who was better and who would come (and who would be likely stay) was asked time and again without anything like a plausible or realsitic answer in reply.

Stick to the facts Amarillo cos you appear to have conveniently forgotten that we went from a mid table comfort zone to scrapping to avoid relegation within half a season of employing Kean as predicted by many on here. Relegation the season after was virtually inevitable. It was like watching a car full of close relatives crash in slow motion. All so unecessary.

The better option would have been Neil McDonald who, I lead to believe wanted the job. I seem to recall Sam saying that he should have been given the job too. Under normal circumstances a promotion from within usually menas the next person on the food chain.

[thenodrog]

I was disenchanted at the tactics in the Wolves game when he brought Morris on at left back and moved Givet to centre half with Nelsen and Samba to play a rigid back five when we were three up. He did it co combat the offensive substitutions that McCarthy made and to keep a clean sheet (of which he once said he gets more pleasure out of keeping a clean sheet as he does in scoring a goal). My bone of contention was that the week before I saw them roll over at Old Trafford and lose 7-1 when he played the likes of Chimbonda and Goulon, he basically tossed it off with no regard for the fans. At 3-0 in the Wolves game we had a chance to go on and win by a big margin. I would have seen that as a payback for the fans who paid nigh on £40 the week before. However I didn't boo or criticise him when it happened, I just saw it as an opportunity missed.

3 points from 2 games is 57 points extrapolated over a season arbitro. Well over our target. The OT score was one of those freak scorelines that happens to most clubs every so often, not nice to go through but MU were streets in front of 90% of Prem clubs at that time and that particuklar sesaon therte were lots of similar scorelines. It was imo the timing that was the kicker.