[Archived] Tony Pulis

[thenodrog]

Pulis made a few bad buys in the last couple of years but he had to build a team from nothing. Allardyce walked into a club that had been in the Prem for most of the last 15 years and had players like Jones, Nelsen, Samba and Friedel already there. Pulis did a great job at Stoke but i can understand the fans being bored rigid with what they had to watch every week.

Absolute rubbish. Ince had already got rid of Friedel and Jones was playing in the youth team and nowhere near the first team squad! Before you make up such statements you need to get your facts right. Allardyce walked into a club that was in a relegation slot and going down. His points total after projected over a season would have had us comfortably in the top half.

[West Yorks Rover]

Absolute rubbish. Ince had already got rid of Friedel and Jones was playing in the youth team and nowhere near the first team squad! Before you make up such statements you need to get your facts right. Allardyce walked into a club that was in a relegation slot and going down. His points total after projected over a season would have had us comfortably in the top half.

Big Sam did a brilliant job that season, he turned us from a complete shambles and certainties for relegation, into a pretty decent outfit

and we even started to play some good stuff towards the end.

IMO not many managers would have kept us up.

[92er]

Big Sam did a brilliant job that season, he turned us from a complete shambles and certainties for relegation, into a pretty decent outfit

and we even started to play some good stuff towards the end.

IMO not many managers would have kept us up.

Wasn't the good stuff at the end of his fist full season?

[West Yorks Rover]

Wasn't the good stuff at the end of his fist full season?

Yes you're correct, but at least lets say we looked far more competent and solid towards the end of the first season.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

sorry, but for every allardyce, pulis there is a Laudrup, steve Clarke, hughes(that play good-reasonable football and still get results on modest budgets), I think its more to do with getting the best out of the players available and playing to their strengths.

In terms of longevity there isn't. And as pontyrover says stability is vastly important, well it is to those with enough sense to use Man Utd as a blueprint. All those managers have achieved good finishes with small clubs in the PL but its how many seasons they've done it that sets them apart from each other:

Allardyce - 8

Pulis - 5

Hughes - 5

Clarke - 1

Laudrup - 1

Hughes is the only one of the "good football" managers that comes into the category Pulis is in (personally I don't think anyone matches Allardyce, he's the best small club manager in the country by a considerable distance).

Clarke and Laudrup are currently in the same category as all the other managers who've done it short-term. There are plenty of those about but its amazing how many fail after an initial flurry of success. Before last season the likes of Martinez, Rodgers and Lambert would have been used in an argument against the Allardyce/Pulis types. Before that it would have been managers like Coyle and Holloway.

If you want to become an established small club in the Premier League over half a decade or so, there are very few managers guaranteed to accomplish that. Pulis was one.

[saxo1man30]

the differance between sam and pulis is that sam has taken his relative success to every club at every level he`s been at, whereas pulis just seemed to fit at stoke after failures everywhere else. i`d still rather bowyer was given the job, he`s has yet to fail anywhere..

[blueboy3333]

Absolute rubbish. Ince had already got rid of Friedel and Jones was playing in the youth team and nowhere near the first team squad! Before you make up such statements you need to get your facts right. Allardyce walked into a club that was in a relegation slot and going down. His points total after projected over a season would have had us comfortably in the top half.

Don't get in a tizzy, it was a genuine mistake. i'd forgot about Friedel, who was replaced by Robinson, an ex-England international. Yep, you've really disproved my point there that Fat Sam took over a good squad that had underperformed for 17 matches under Ince! What position did we finish in Hughes' last season at the club? That might give you a clue as to the 'shambles' Allardyce inherited. I look forward with deep joy to your patronising reply.

[saxo1man30]

In terms of longevity there isn't. And as pontyrover says stability is vastly important, well it is to those with enough sense to use Man Utd as a blueprint. All those managers have achieved good finishes with small clubs in the PL but its how many seasons they've done it that sets them apart from each other:

Allardyce - 8

Pulis - 5

Hughes - 5

Clarke - 1

Laudrup - 1

Hughes is the only one of the "good football" managers that comes into the category Pulis is in (personally I don't think anyone matches Allardyce, he's the best small club manager in the country by a considerable distance).

Clarke and Laudrup are currently in the same category as all the other managers who've done it short-term. There are plenty of those about but its amazing how many fail after an initial flurry of success. Before last season the likes of Martinez, Rodgers and Lambert would have been used in an argument against the Allardyce/Pulis types. Before that it would have been managers like Coyle and Holloway.

If you want to become an established small club in the Premier League over half a decade or so, there are very few managers guaranteed to accomplish that. Pulis was one.

and now is successful at a fairly big club in west ham..

[saxo1man30]

for the record, imo it`s a ludicrous `chairman`s ego` driven decision by stoke to replace pulis, and will cost them the same as it cost rovers. you can`t just change philosophies over a close season with the same set of players that pulis had whoever takes over as manager. it`ll end in tears.

[Clitherover]

I'd put money on MONiell.

Good shout, could see that happening.

[Jimmy612]

Don't get in a tizzy, it was a genuine mistake. i'd forgot about Friedel, who was replaced by Robinson, an ex-England international. Yep, you've really disproved my point there that Fat Sam took over a good squad that had underperformed for 17 matches under Ince! What position did we finish in Hughes' last season at the club? That might give you a clue as to the 'shambles' Allardyce inherited. I look forward with deep joy to your patronising reply.

1. Robinson isn't and never was fit to lace Friedel's boots. The fact that you have almost hoped to compare the two is unreal. The most reliable keeper in the PL for years or a keeper who was poor in the air, couldn't get down quick enough to low shots but did make an occasional good 'reaction stop'.

2. Losing Bentley was a travesty - our P.O.S by a country mile replaced by Charlie Newhouse (a lightweight Youtube find) and Keith bloody Andrews. So this meant that our right wing at the time was Brett Emerton (a right back who couldn't cross, and posed very little attacking threat), and Danny Simpson who was fairly poor and extremely raw.

3. RSC was injured all season - Couple this with the fact that his service had gone to White Hart Lane when he returned late in the season anyway - and we find ourselves with a fairly redundant, half fit striker. This left us with McCarthy and Roberts - McCarthy had long since been a shadow of his former self, shown by his embarrassing stint at WHAM. Roberts - well... 8 goals a season if you're lucky. Oh and Fowler - a player who couldn't turn on his left side because his Hip had gone.

The midfield was that poor that Warnock was asked to play CM - in fairness doing okay, but who would have predicted that move under Hughes?

The squad in actual fact was woeful - Your attempts to undermine SA's successful period at BRFC unfortunately clouds your memory of just how poor we were. I bet you wouldn't have him back now would you? Incredible really.

[thenodrog]

Wasn't the good stuff at the end of his fist full season?

The best stuff was after 40 points had been reached and the shackles were allowed off the players. The pragmatic safety first approach was Instruction No 1 from the trust ....Stay in the prem until we can offload the club. Instructions 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 9, and 10 were the same.

[Jimmy612]

and now is successful at a fairly big club in west ham..

And will continue that success if given time. It really does astound me that people hate him so much. He's worked wonders at 3 out of the 4 clubs that he has managed in the past 15 years. His only 'failure' is having Newcastle 11th in the league in early January - Interesting to see their PL league finishes since then... 12th, 18th, 12th, 5th, 16th - when compared to Allardyce.... 15th (takes over a club in late December in 19th and 5/6 points from 17th), 10th, 12th (after 17 games) (takes Wham up), 10th.

Interesting comparisons - especially given the amount of money spent by both parties.....

Oh and if it hadn't been for that @#/? ash cloud we'd have either sold or still had one of the best strikers in the world

[thenodrog]

Don't get in a tizzy, it was a genuine mistake. i'd forgot about Friedel, who was replaced by Robinson, an ex-England international. Yep, you've really disproved my point there that Fat Sam took over a good squad that had underperformed for 17 matches under Ince! What position did we finish in Hughes' last season at the club? That might give you a clue as to the 'shambles' Allardyce inherited. I look forward with deep joy to your patronising reply.

I think you are actually believing the rubbish that you write.

Lets see RSC was playing silly beggars to get to City by faking a sore knee and Fowler had been embarrassingly brought in by the numpty Ince and despatched asap after it was realised there was a scam going on whilst top performers Friedal and Bentley were despatched and replaced with the much lesser lights Andrews and Robinson. Popular speculation was that Brad alone was worth 6-10 points per season.

[thenodrog]

and now is successful at a fairly big club in west ham..

At WHU Allardyce could easily realise his ambition to be the next England manager imo. He's bang in the right area to influence the all important press and media in a way he could never have done at the Reebok or Ewood. With a new shiny tax payers stadium virtually given to them WHU are on the up under the Porn twins and a bigger budget, boardroom support and better players will allow the more adventurous football that sports journo's crave. If he can get hold of Carroll for the battering ram stuff and bring in the 2013 equivalent of a Campo and an Okocha he'll put himself right in the frame.

[saxo1man30]

At WHU Allardyce could easily realise his ambition to be the next England manager imo. He's bang in the right area to influence the all important press and media in a way he could never have done at the Reebok or Ewood. With a new shiny tax payers stadium virtually given to them WHU are on the up under the Porn twins and a bigger budget, boardroom support and better players will allow the more adventurous football that sports journo's crave. If he can get hold of Carroll for the battering ram stuff and bring in the 2013 equivalent of a Campo and an Okocha he'll put himself right in the frame.

keep an eye on possibly joe cole next season for an `youri djorkeaff` eqivilent influence. the longer sam stays, the better they will get imo.

[Majiball]

At WHU Allardyce could easily realise his ambition to be the next England manager imo. He's bang in the right area to influence the all important press and media in a way he could never have done at the Reebok or Ewood. With a new shiny tax payers stadium virtually given to them WHU are on the up under the Porn twins and a bigger budget, boardroom support and better players will allow the more adventurous football that sports journo's crave. If he can get hold of Carroll for the battering ram stuff and bring in the 2013 equivalent of a Campo and an Okocha he'll put himself right in the frame.

I don't think Carroll will be at West Ham next season, he clearly feels he can do better than West Ham and I wouldn't be surprised if he's been told to get himself playing in europe next season.

[thenodrog]

All down to his agent I'm sure. I imagine his salary will be being reduced now that he is a 15m striker and not a 35m superstar wonder kid. That will be the only stumbling block that will have to be thrashed out imo. Lets be honest his agent must know that if anyone can get the best out of his (limited skill and often err 'temperamental') client it will be Allardyce and that WHU are a club well on the up and situated in the right place. The only place in Europe for him would be WHU equivalent in the Bundesliga.

[LeChuck]

I don't think Carroll will be at West Ham next season, he clearly feels he can do better than West Ham and I wouldn't be surprised if he's been told to get himself playing in europe next season.

I can't see who else would want him. Aston Villa if Benteke leaves? But that's hardly a step up from West Ham. I think Newcastle will trust their scouting network to find someone cheaper than £15 million.

There isn't a club who finished above West Ham who you can see being interested. Maybe Everton as a long shot if they sell someone like Fellaini. Jelavic seems like he was a flash in the pan.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Problem is Theno the club has an ego much higher than it's real stature in the game. I remember seeing fans with West Ham World Cup Winners 66 t-shirts on and thinking what a bunch of prats. You are talking about a team that hasn't won a Trophy for 33 years and has never won a league title and yet they have an ego the size of Jupiter.

I think it's more likely with the influx of money from the new stadium and as a result higher expectations they will bin Allardyce for a more glamorous name. This might not happen for a year or two but I think it will inevitably happen even with owners who have a history of sticking by managers in the past.

[Jimmy612]

I can't see who else would want him. Aston Villa if Benteke leaves? But that's hardly a step up from West Ham. I think Newcastle will trust their scouting network to find someone cheaper than £15 million.

There isn't a club who finished above West Ham who you can see being interested. Maybe Everton as a long shot if they sell someone like Fellaini. Jelavic seems like he was a flash in the pan.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/andy-carroll-stalls-on-15m-move-to-west-ham-in-hope-newcastle-step-in-8626270.html

[thenodrog]

Problem is Theno the club has an ego much higher than it's real stature in the game. I remember seeing fans with West Ham World Cup Winners 66 t-shirts on and thinking what a bunch of prats. You are talking about a team that hasn't won a Trophy for 33 years and has never won a league title and yet they have an ego the size of Jupiter.

I think it's more likely with the influx of money from the new stadium and as a result higher expectations they will bin Allardyce for a more glamorous name. This might not happen for a year or two but I think it will inevitably happen even with owners who have a history of sticking by managers in the past.

Gold and O'Sullivan are not naive, foreign glory hunting idiots are they? If he is performing to target he will be safe as houses. Rem they must have lost a packet when they were relegated and they wont want that to happen any time soon just cos of a few numpty boo-boys behind the goals.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Gold and O'Sullivan are not naive, foreign glory hunting idiots are they? If he is performing to target he will be safe as houses. Rem they must have lost a packet when they were relegated and they wont want that to happen any time soon just cos of a few numpty boo-boys behind the goals.

And what if that target changes to something else and he doesn't meet it? Let's face it they are going to want to see improvement year on year and in a highly competitive league where how much money you spend can decide a lot sometimes you can only go so far. Ultimately we will have to see what happens over the next few years, I am just putting it out there that in my view I don't think he is that secure long term. But we shall see.

[DE.]

And what if that target changes to something else and he doesn't meet it? Let's face it they are going to want to see improvement year on year and in a highly competitive league where how much money you spend can decide a lot sometimes you can only go so far.

Why do you think this? Considering the amount of money awash in the Premier League at this point in time I think Gold & Sullivan would be more than happy to consolidate a safe position each year.

[OJRovers]

(back on topic)

Any chance of Pulis for Rovers?